The Allure of the Dex-Side

[An Irate Walrus]

I've been playing Souls games since Demon's in 09, and for the longest time, I was an STR/END guy. Big muscles for the unga-bunga, and staying power to do the job all night long.

That didn't change--at first--with Elden Ring. My launch build toted the UGS with a frost AoW, and even managed to handle pre-nerf Radahn and Malenia.

...and then, gentle readers, I heard it. The beguiling, wiry concord of the Siren's call: "try Dex! We have bleed!"

In a moment of weakness, and desiring something new for my second run, I rolled a Samurai--and now it's in my veins. Eight runs later, despite starting six of those as a Wretch and remembering why handling my club brings me such joy, I keep investing in Dex and grabbing smaller, faster weapons for great stabbery, rather than two-handed monuments to my personal insecurities for great bonkery.

How did I go so far astray? How did I lose the path? And how, dear readers, do I find my way home?

...and don't say "try caster!" That glass cannon nonsense is for nerds.














/s on the "nerds" bit, in case that wasn't abundantly clear.

[An Irate Walrus]

Originally posted by Angel:

Originally posted by An Irate Walrus:

No part of this is meant to be a serious plea for help; it's more a fun opportunity to see others' builds and weapon preferences.

could have just said that

I could have, but I try to respect the ability of others to perceive tone.

[Sonnenbank]

Originally posted by Cenwalh:

Originally posted by Sonnenbank:

Well Dex without applying status bleed/frost is kinda bad though......

There is a clear hirarchy in Elden Ring

Bleed/Frost > Heavy Weapons > Dex without bleed/Frost

Only expcetion is BloodhoundFang that for some strange reason is a Dex weapon

Don't know what you're basing that on, tbh.

Bleed/hemorrhage damage scales with the Arcane stat, not with Dex, so..
Frost/Cold affinity scales off Intelligence, again NOT Dexterity...


Dexterity's "natural" counterpart is actually Lightning damage, not bleed and not frost-> Lightning affinity usually adds Dex scaling and, if the weapon has it, it improves the Dex scaling of the weapon. Lightning affinity weapons naturally scale off Dex. Go put an Ash of War on any weapon and give it Lightning affinity and see for yourself.
Additionally, the few weapons that have innate Lightning damage have a high scaling in Dex.


Also, there is no "clear hierarchy" in Elden Ring - you can make any type of damage ridiculously powerful, it all depends what build you're using.

1. bleed damage and Frost damage status explosions are fixed ! It doesnt scale at all.... the amount of bleed status you can apply scales with arc

What makes the bleed/frost combo good though is that the 20% more damage after Frost multiplies the bleed explosion.
So ideal you start frost/bleed then change to bleed/bleed


2.)
Hits per Second is what matters though and that is what dex weapons are very good at.
6x 50bleed is 300 jump l1 with for example twinblades or curved swords
2x 80bleed (scaled with arc) is 160 jump l2 with a arc scaled heavy weapon


if you dont understand that simple concept i am not intrested in any more conversation
with you about this

Here me double bleed dex without arc scaling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3BCaEDTZN0

[Angel]

Originally posted by An Irate Walrus:

Originally posted by Angel:

could have just said that

I could have, but I try to respect the ability of others to perceive tone.

so you gonna go back to your strength build or has somebody in the comments inspired you?

[CazadorDeLobo]

Inb4 Heavy Forked GS user posts a slasher-flick style video

[Cenwalh]

Originally posted by Sonnenbank:

1. bleed damage and Frost damage status explosions are fixed ! It doesnt scale at all.... the amount of bleed status you can apply scales with arc

What makes the bleed/frost combo good though is that the 20% more damage after Frost multiplies the bleed explosion.
So ideal you start frost/bleed then change to bleed/bleed


2.)
Hits per Second is what matters though and that is what dex weapons are very good at.
6x 50bleed is 300 jump l1 with for example twinblades or curved swords
2x 80bleed (scaled with arc) is 160 jump l2 with a arc scaled heavy weapon


if you dont understand that simple concept i am not intrested in any more conversation
with you about this

Here me double bleed dex without arc scaling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3BCaEDTZN0

1) yes, what stacks is the build-up, indeed. that still makes Arc a stronger stat than Dex for bleed purposes.

I get what you mean with the combo of Frost then Bleed. I didn't say it was bad, just that it's not better than others.

If we're talking strictly PvE then yeah, it's definitely up there in terms of DPS. If we're talking PvP, then spamming R1 will get you parried in no time by a half-competent duelist.

2) Yes ofc, but that doesn't make them stronger than other builds. I could show you my STR FTH build that does 1.2K damage per hit with the Gargoyle Black Halberd (RL150), but I don't have a recording readily available.


My whole point was that yes, Dex and Bleed is a strong pairing, as are the countless other pairings you can do in this game. There is no "hierarchy".
A Quality build with similar weapons will, in fact, do better damage per hit while still benefiting from the status effects.

[CazadorDeLobo]

I think others often conflate "dex" with "fast combos" and would agree that the intended humor of the post has kinda been lost in the semantics

[Sirius]

Never was one for dex even though I've tried, in all the games.

It just never clicked no matter how much I liked the style of certain weapons or how dedicated I've tried to get into it.

I can do pretty much all the other styles, STR, INT, FTH, but not DEX.

All there is to it. Closest I came was the bow builds, but that's novelty at best.

I'm actually glad Walrus got around to enjoying it, but I have long given up.

[Lynfinity]

Originally posted by Forest:

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

STR: "I Unga, Therefore I Bunga."
DEX: "It's just like one of my Japanese animes!"
INT: "Glinstone Pebble, The Cooler Glintstone Pebble, The Coolest Glinstone Pebble, KAMEHAMEHA!"
FTH: "It's just like one of my Japanese animes!" pt. 2 - Electric Boogaloo (literally).

Moral of the story? Go for DEX/FTH and never look back.

And unga bunga is always the first and sometimes only one that can one shot bosses. And it is quite poetic how the enemies we fight are greater beings sometimes literal gods who think they are better than us mere mortals get their ass cheeks clapped by a naked man or women using a big stick.

Well, you see, I personally enjoy actually fighting bosses instead of deleting their HP bar. Style points over raw damage, is what I'm trying to say.

[CazadorDeLobo]

Originally posted by |x|SiriuS|x|:

Never was one for dex even though I've tried, in all the games.

It just never clicked no matter how much I liked the style of certain weapons or how dedicated I've tried to get into it.

I can do pretty much all the other styles, STR, INT, FTH, but not DEX.

All there is to it. Closest I came was the bow builds, but that's novelty at best.

I'm actually glad Walrus got around to enjoying it, but I have long given up.

Dex weapons definitely outshone strength weapons in PvP for a while, with only a handful of OP exceptions. Over the years it's kinda flipped around and now they're definitely over-hyped imo, since you can put fast ash of wars onto slow weapons and make some fascinating build combinations

Bow-only is pretty fun as far as a challenge run goes, at least for the more structured Souls levels. In Elden Ring, their utility is minimal thanks to shotgun range.

[Sirius]

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

Style points over raw damage, is what I'm trying to say.

This constantly bones me in certain MMOs.

I still play "Star Trek Online" to this day, and the meta is... ugly, to put it mildly.
Disgusting obnoxious visuals, chaotic, non-themed mishmash of colors and effects, I just can't.

Fashion over function is my motto always, as long as it doesn't mean I scrape the bottom of the barrel.

I can hold my own in all team events (I mean, I've played for over a decade, I know my ♥♥♥♥), but I can't count the times people went "Dude, you need this and that" and I go "No" and they go "why don't you use X" and I go "Because", and they go "but the DPS" and I go "What about the DPS?" and they go "Bzzzzzzzzzt brain malfunction".

"Space Barbie" is what we call it, similar to "Fashion Souls", and not everyone gets it.

[Sirius]

Originally posted by CazadorDeLobo:

Bow-only is pretty fun as far as a challenge run goes, at least for the more structured Souls levels. In Elden Ring, their utility is minimal thanks to shotgun range.

Bows have always been a pain in the butt, but I agree Elden Ring was the worst.
The grinding for the good arrows alone after every boss was plain unfun.

[CazadorDeLobo]

Originally posted by |x|SiriuS|x|:

Originally posted by CazadorDeLobo:

Bow-only is pretty fun as far as a challenge run goes, at least for the more structured Souls levels. In Elden Ring, their utility is minimal thanks to shotgun range.

Bows have always been a pain in the butt, but I agree Elden Ring was the worst.
The grinding for the good arrows alone after every boss was plain unfun.

That's not even mentioning the utter disappointment of ballistas and crossbows.

[Zogtar]

Dex is the lightning stat, not faith... lol.

I guess years of dark souls has a few people conflating it, which I understand.

I just STARTED a dex only build for the first time, myself, a week or two back. Using the starting Dual scimitars, and I'm finding it to be more difficult than any of the other builds I've doinked with(so far).

Not that anyone asked, but had a blast finishing fresh start playthroughs with Int/str, arcane/dex, pure faith, and pure str builds. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ phenomenal that every boss I fight is different based on what I go in with.

Crucible Knights require a shield, so I put one in my reportoire, still rough going.

I'm just arriving in Liurnia, so guessing this will change once I start getting different dex/lightning focused weapons to dual wield.

[CazadorDeLobo]

Originally posted by Zogtar:

Dex is the lightning stat, not faith... lol.

I guess years of dark souls has a few people conflating it, which I understand.

I just STARTED a dex only build for the first time, myself, a week or two back. Using the starting Dual scimitars to start, and I'm finding it to be more difficult than any of the other builds (so far).

Crucible Knights require a shield, so I put one in my reportoire, still rough going.

I'm just arriving in Liurnia, so guessing this will change once I start getting different dex/lightning focused weapons to dual wield.

I tried the build for Bolt of Gransax, and uh I dunno. I feel that lightning doesn't have a clear enough system for highlighting the enemies which would be vulnerable to it, and so I often never notice if I'm doing any more or less damage with lightning vs anything else - and also the absolute lack of faith scaling and only using dex is weird, like it's Flame Art but worse

[Lynfinity]

Originally posted by |x|SiriuS|x|:

-snip-

On that note, I've been joining randoms for Radagon/Elden Beast for Marika knows how many hours now (what can I say, I love this boss fight), and it came to a point that I audibly gag whenever I see "Black Flame Tornado", "Marais Executioner's Sword", all these "fun" things.

Not a single soul tries to use them in a creative way, barely anyone tries to mix-and-match these weapons/Weapon Arts with their choice of fashion. it's always the same "Pick whatever has the most defence/poise, as long your END allows it, then hold L2 to win" mindset. Just... ugh.

Had to let it out. Though, I'll admit that it's funny seeing MES users getting constant Vigor checks because, most of the time, they actually just spam L2 without a second thought.