Is Melina the burned body of Ranni?

[Wushiba]

There's certainly a connection between the two and I think this is it:

-Melina talks about being "burned and bodiless" and we can find the burned, discarded body of Ranni on top of a tower that she got rid of to free her soul.

-Both Ranni and Melina have something going on with their opposite eye, can't be a coincidence.

-Also both of them know Torrent and there's probably other proof out there.

Therefore I concluded that Melina is actually the burned, discarded body of Ranni, living a life of it's own. Probably created/ressurected/given purpose by Marika.

Though it isn't the actual physical thing because we can find that on top of a tower, it is like a spirit / spectral version of it, this is why she can appear out of nowhere.

Though they are two completely seperate person now. They just have a shared past.

Ranni is the soul, Melina is the body.

If someone would argue that: "Melina can't be Ranni's old body because she is X"
Well, she can be both, she probably wasn't "born" yesterday so she had time to explore the world and live her own life for a while before meeting the player character.

Thoughts? Anyone knows any hard proof why this theory can't be true?

[Born To Noot]

The body of Ranni is still lying at the top of the divine tower of Liurnia, with the cursemark of death

[Wushiba]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Born To Noot:

The body of Ranni is still lying at the top of the divine tower of Liurnia, with the cursemark of death

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Wushiba:

Though it isn't the actual physical thing because we can find that on top of a tower, it is like a spirit / spectral version of it, this is why she can appear out of nowhere.

[Lord Bob]

If I'm not mistaken, it's hinted at that the Gloam Eyed Queen is the soul of Melina (or at least somewhat inhabits her), as a means for Marika to make sure the Frenzied Flame does not have an Elden Lord as it's representative in the Lands Between.

Also, being Radagon's child, Ranni has red hair, as seen on her body atop the tower while Melina's hair is what, some kind of pink?

Also, how would Melina have Ranni's old body when Ranni's body is located on the divine tower of Liurnia?
Melina outright states that she doesn't have a body:
Me, I'm searching for my purpose given to me by my mother inside the Erdtree long ago, for the reason that I yet live, burned and bodyless.

[Wushiba]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord Bob:

If I'm not mistaken, it's hinted at that the Gloam Eyed Queen is the soul of Melina (or at least somewhat inhabits her), as a means for Marika to make sure the Frenzied Flame does not have an Elden Lord as it's representative in the Lands Between.

That actually supports my theory. Marika ressurected Ranni's cast off body by putting that soul into it.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord Bob:

Also, being Radagon's child, Ranni has red hair, as seen on her body atop the tower while Melina's hair is what, some kind of pink?

True. I have thought about this. Certain pieces of the puzzle are missing, but in Souls games we almost never get the full story. Though there could be quite a few explainations for this, for example: It is not the actual body, but a spectral version of it, just like Torrent, therefore the colors are not the same. Another idea is that when the other soul was placed into the body then it altered the body in some ways. Though we have to keep in mind that there isn't a lore explaination for literally everything, some things in the game have gameplay reasons behind it, maybe the devs deliberately changed the hair color to not make it too obvious.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord Bob:

Also, how would Melina have Ranni's old body when Ranni's body is located on the divine tower of Liurnia?

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Wushiba:

If someone would argue that: "Melina can't be Ranni's old body because she is X"
Well, she can be both, she probably wasn't "born" yesterday so she had time to explore the world and live her own life for a while before meeting the player character.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord Bob:

Melina outright states that she doesn't have a body:
Me, I'm searching for my purpose given to me by my mother inside the Erdtree long ago, for the reason that I yet live, burned and bodyless.

Exactly. This supports my theory.

She is burned:
just like Ranni's discarded body.

She is bodiless:
she is a spirit or spectral being like Torrent, she doesn't have a physical body,
that's why she can appear out of nowhere to talk to the player


What I would like to know is how others explain the similarities between Ranni and Melina if not with this theory?

[nfinite.recursion]

No.

Ranni's body is found ingame.

Melina is a "burned and bodiless" disembodied spirit. And she IS a spirit because she materializes and dematerializes the same way as Torrent and other summonable spirits.

Godwyn's body is found within the roots of the Erdtree and he has no autonomous body roaming the Lands Between; that IS his body.

Lore-wise, when Destined Death is used, a body and spirit must die. Ranni figured out a way to sacrifice Godwyn's spirit while preserving her own while discarding her own body to remove material influence from the Two Fingers and by extension the Greater Will.

As for the closed eyes that they both share, both Ranni and Melina are burned and bodiless. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some kind of symbology behind the closed eye of spirits that have had only their bodies destroyed by Destined Death.

Then there is the Flame of Frenzy ending. If you burn the Erdtree with your own power rather than sacrificing Melina, she appears at the very end with her closed eye now unsealed and you see an eye the color of a dusk sky, implying that she is the Gloam-eyed Queen, the prior goddess of the Lands Between.

[Born To Noot]

There are more hints that states that melina is the gloam-eyed queen, like in the Frenzied flame ending, who was here before all the golden order stuff, including the marriage of radagon and rennala who gave birth to ranni, radahn and rykard

[Wushiba]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Born To Noot:

There are more hints that states that melina is the gloam-eyed queen, like in the Frenzied flame ending, who was here before all the golden order stuff, including the marriage of radagon and rennala who gave birth to ranni, radahn and rykard

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Wushiba:

If someone would argue that: "Melina can't be Ranni's old body because she is X"
Well, she can be both

It can be the soul of the gloam-eyed queen in the discarded body of Ranni, which combination then would give birth to a new being: Melina.

[Lord Bob]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Wushiba:

-snip-

So you are trying to argue that Melina is the spectrefied (is that even a word?) version of Ranni's old body, altered by and given a new identity by Marika?

I mean it's not impossible but I also believe it's rather unlikely, compared to Melina having possessed her own body before which then was burned at some point, while in return Marika saving her soul in spectre form.

But I agree, there seems to be some kind of connection between both of them, even if it does not seem to be a very strong one so far.

[Wushiba]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย nfinite.recursion:

No.

Though this Gloam-eyed Queen is not mentioned in dialogue once, I don't even know where can you even see that name ingame, probably some item description I presume? but there's more than just one connection between Ranni and Melina than that, which supports my theory.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord Bob:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Wushiba:

-snip-

So you are trying to argue that Melina is the spectrefied (is that even a word?) version of Ranni's old body, altered by and given a new identity by Marika?

I guess? Lol. I mean it probably isn't a perfect theory but there are just too many coincidences. Both of them being burned, Ranni being a bodiless spirit, Melina is like a spectre like Torrent, Melina saying she is bodiless and we can find that certain body on top of a tower which make her "bodiless". Both of them having an eye thing going on. Both of them knowing Torrent. Knowing eachother... Etc.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord Bob:

I mean it's not impossible but I also believe it's rather unlikely, compared to Melina having possessed her own body before which then was burned at some point, while in return Marika saving her soul in spectre form.

Maybe the shattering would fill out the missing holes. That messed up a lot things.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord Bob:

But I agree, there seems to be some kind of connection between both of them, even if it does not seem to be a very strong one so far.

This is why I opened this discussion, to see if maybe someone can show some actual proof, other than "she isn't X cause she is Y" to disproof this theory of mine.

[Zogtar]

Hot take, everyone is Marika.

No matter what you do, it's all Marika.

Always has been.

[Darkstorm]

Ain't Ranni a daughter of Radagon and Rennala, while Melina daugther of Marika and someone else? Also Melina can open her other eye.

[Wushiba]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Darkstorm:

Ain't Ranni a daughter of Radagon and Rennala, while Melina daugther of Marika and someone else? Also Melina can open her other eye.

Melina only says that Marika is her mother but doesn't elaborate further, also it's not certain that Marika gave birth to her or she is calling her mother for some other reason.

Could be that she doesn't actually have a father.

[Lord Bob]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Darkstorm:

Ain't Ranni a daughter of Radagon and Rennala, while Melina daugther of Marika and someone else? Also Melina can open her other eye.

I believe it is only mentioned that Marika is her mother, but nothing about the father.
There are some hints like the three kinds of butterflies found troughout the game, suggesting that she is a sibling to Miquella and Malenia.

[Zogtar]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Wushiba:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Darkstorm:

Ain't Ranni a daughter of Radagon and Rennala, while Melina daugther of Marika and someone else? Also Melina can open her other eye.

Melina only says that Marika is her mother but doesn't elaborate further, also it's not certain that Marika gave birth to her or she is calling her mother for some other reason.

Could be that she doesn't actually have a father.

Which is why a handful of people speculate that Melina is Miquella.

So far we just have theories on incomplete lore.

[nfinite.recursion]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Wushiba:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Darkstorm:

Ain't Ranni a daughter of Radagon and Rennala, while Melina daugther of Marika and someone else? Also Melina can open her other eye.

Melina only says that Marika is her mother but doesn't elaborate further, also it's not certain that Marika gave birth to her or she is calling her mother for some other reason.

Could be that she doesn't actually have a father.

No.

She refers to her "mother in the Erdtree" and that she was born "at the base of the Erdtree" but does NOT name Marika as her mother in this conversation despite specifically using Marika's name at other times.

While we as the players know that Marika is the one in the Erdtree during this time, Melina has no memories of her past life due to (presumably) being a disembodied spirit. She is just as confused as the players about her own past and she could very well be referring to someone else inside the Erdtree from a prior era.

In fact, her demeanor changes after you arrive in Leyndell and she departs then rejoins you after defeating Morgott. She left to "ascertain her purpose". After seeing Marika in the Erdtree and learning how she altered the Elden Ring to remove Destined Death she learned that Marika is NOT her mother and Marika is the reason why the Lands Between are so screwed up.