The Best Boss

[Justin Sane]

There's the hardest boss and there's the easiest boss. but wich boss is the bestest?

rhetorical question. its Maliketh.

Both stages of the fight are good and rewards good reaction from the player. none of the moves are bullshitlevel stuff (looking at you fowldance...) and the arena design is a good effective design that works well with the boss. its quick and fierce like a deadly tango.

Malenia is a good second tho. there's probably something i havent figured out with that move yet but it feels a bit too cheap (and thats coming from a tarnished dex enjoyer!) so she misses out on first place.

least best, Fire Giant, no doubt.

or am i missing a boss here thats better really? thoughts? frustrastions?

[BenzoSt]

My top 5:
1. Rykard
2. Margit
3. Mohg, Lord of Blood
4. Radagon
5. Loretta, Knight of the Haligtree

Bottom 5:
1. Astel, Stars of Darkness
2. Godefroy the Grafted
3. Mohg, the Omen
4. Ancestor Spirit
5. Royal Knight Loretta

Note that each of the bottom 5 are duplicates of high-quality bosses - the mere existence of these duplicates diminishes the uniqueness of the originals.

Maliketh and Malenia are both good, but not S-tier. I found the fight against Beast Clergyman mediocre and the problem with Maliketh is that he hits too hard yet has too little health, which amounts to an inevitably short fight where either the player or Maliketh dies quickly, and furthermore you rarely get to enjoy the superb BG music that accompanies Maliketh. Malenia would be S-tier if not for Waterfowl Dance.

[Sonnenbank]

Originally posted by Elden Lord Plurt:

tho you seem to oppose just to be opposing so im catious.

completely wrong assumption ;)
I like fights where you have a variety of attacks and a variety of options how to handle them.
Fights were you can do your action based on having quick reaction and where hitboxes give you space in a way that makes sense for human logic
i like creativity and expression during fights.

Thats why Godrick is an excellent fight since there are soooo many different ways to deal with almost any of his attacks
and most important all his attacks are punishable !

I dont like fights where you basically have only 1 solution to 1 attack.

Thats the case with for example Margit
There is not much variety.... all attacks of Margit have basically 1 best solution
in terms of where to stay and how to counter.

Its even worse in phase 2 compared to phase 1
Basically the only attacks you can punish are the 2 attacks where he jumps towards you
and the way to punish them is identical for both .....

roll into the jumping margit -> walk around in a circle -> have big punish window.

thats the opposite of giving the player ways to be creative.
And no its not a skill issue as i demonstrate here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFe6kzU3X-Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6c2yMaI4vE&t=1s

Its just that Margit is designed in a way that it does only make sense to punish attacks where he jumps towards you. (there are several attacks where he jumps...but trying to go for anything outside of the jumps is just not worth it)
punishing anything else is just stricly worse

It ofc also depends on how well you know a boss.....
i have fought margit overall between 200-300 times with maybe 30 different setups.
There is very little you can do besides either
1.) parry
2.) punish all attacks where he jumps with basically the exact same method
there is very very little positioning where you are safe and everything else you will just get melee laser daggerd >-<
3.) attack from range.

VS Godrick however you have complete freedom

[Justin Sane]

Originally posted by BenzoSt:

My top 5:
1. Rykard
2. Margit
3. Mohg, Lord of Blood
4. Radagon
5. Loretta, Knight of the Haligtree

Bottom 5:
1. Astel, Stars of Darkness
2. Godefroy the Grafted
3. Mohg, the Omen
4. Ancestor Spirit
5. Royal Knight Loretta

Note that each of the bottom 5 are duplicates of high-quality bosses - the mere existence of these duplicates diminishes the uniqueness of the originals.

Maliketh and Malenia are both good, but not S-tier. I found the fight against Beast Clergyman mediocre and the problem with Maliketh is that he hits too hard yet has too little health, which amounts to an inevitably short fight where either the player or Maliketh dies quickly, and furthermore you rarely get to enjoy the superb BG music that accompanies Maliketh. Malenia would be S-tier if not for Waterfowl Dance.

good thoughts here but i'm a little confused about rykard? its kinda cool but.. ok so i guess i should try against him without using the gimmick before i speak on the matter.

thinking about malenia, i wonder if the skill was removed that it would be as satisying when you defeat her? man the first time i got her a bit down in hp and she just ate up my mimic and basically got full hp again i was devestated xD

i guess mohg is actually cool too but i struggled a bit with that halway skill for a bit. then when i did finally get him i got the last slice on him RIGHT before he casted the skill. got very lucky with tons of rivers of blood on him

[DEAD RaNgEr 888]

godfrey or morgott. both are so cool lorewise and both are fun to fight.

[Yílõng Má]

IMO Waterfowl Dance is a great move. It's not ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ level, you can dodge it perfectly if you're good enough.

[Justin Sane]

Originally posted by Yílõng Má:

IMO Waterfowl Dance is a great move. It's not ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ level, you can dodge it perfectly if you're good enough.

my bad, i must be bad at the game

[Yílõng Má]

Originally posted by Elden Lord Plurt:

Originally posted by Yílõng Má:

IMO Waterfowl Dance is a great move. It's not ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ level, you can dodge it perfectly if you're good enough.

my bad, i must be bad at the game

Well, if there are few people who can solo her no damage at RL1, and some chick who beat her using dancing pad, then of course we're bad / not that good.

[Justin Sane]

Originally posted by Yílõng Má:

Originally posted by Elden Lord Plurt:

my bad, i must be bad at the game

Well, if there are few people who can solo her no damage at RL1, and some chick who beat her using dancing pad, then of course we're not that good.

ok my man

[cybercybercybercyber4]

the invaders in front of the big jar (without bouncing them off the cliff of course).

[BenzoSt]

Originally posted by Elden Lord Plurt:

good thoughts here but i'm a little confused about rykard? its kinda cool but.. ok so i guess i should try against him without using the gimmick before i speak on the matter.

thinking about malenia, i wonder if the skill was removed that it would be as satisying when you defeat her? man the first time i got her a bit down in hp and she just ate up my mimic and basically got full hp again i was devestated xD

i guess mohg is actually cool too but i struggled a bit with that halway skill for a bit. then when i did finally get him i got the last slice on him RIGHT before he casted the skill. got very lucky with tons of rivers of blood on him

Despite being a gimmick fight where you are practically obligated to wield the Serpent Hunter, Rykard is my #1 pick because of the ambiance of the battle, because almost every attack Rykard performs feels fair, and because each attack you can perform with the Serpent Hunter is useful given the moment.

My gripe with Malenia is that Waterfowl Dance is a very counter-intuitive attack to defend against and it will kill you too practically immediately unless you get lucky with your dodges or go online to look up one of the few cryptic niche strategies for countering the attack. When I get defeated by a boss, I want my defeat to result from either: A. My own greediness or negligence where I mindlessly attacked when I should have instead healed, or B. I didn't hit the boss enough before the boss hit me so much that I ran out of healing. Neither of these preferred avenues to defeat occur from Waterfowl, which is more like, "Oops, Waterfowl you insta-die, better luck next time." By comparison, good examples of fights include Hoarah Houx and Slave Knight Gael from Dark Souls 3. With these bosses, each attack is a threat, but there is no single attack that will drain your HP from near-full to dead within the span of <2 seconds. Malenia could have been this sort of boss if not for Waterfowl Dance and her phase-2 phantom duplication attack, especially since her health regeneration dictates that you can't defeat her unless you attain a high level of competence at dodging her attacks.

As for Mohg, to appreciate that fight you need to find the Crystal Tear in a church in Altus Plateau that protects you against his Nihil spell. Then defeat him without exploiting his weakness to magic or bleed or the ubiquitous Mimic Tear and then you will know how great a boss he is.... and also the thrill of victory.

[itssomuchfun]

Why does this thread even exist?
Nothing can compare to Radahn Festival.

[Grimmz]

probably fall damage-chan.

[Justin Sane]

lol, good point. it is indeed some luck of the draw in how often she pulls the move. but as for putting down my katanas and skip that sweet sweet chop of life, hmm aaah i feel so naked without them lol.

fall-damage might be the highest kill count tho... :P

[Sabaithal]

Depends on what you mean by "best".

If you mean "which provides the most actual challenge to players without too much ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ the player about too much" (tedious crap like insanely huge health, one-shots without reasonable telegraphs, heal on hit, etc) then its Maliketh, yes. His movements are all telegraphed and avoidable, but tricky to grasp in many ways and can require a great deal of focus to "no hit" while fighting him. Modders have even tested his difficulty with a full health bar, and he's probably more challenging than any other boss.

If you mean "which one is the best designed for a fun fight" I'd probably go with Godfrey if I'm being honest. His phase 1 at least has a good pattern, telegraphed but not slow attacks, and fighting him is satisfying while also being somewhat challenging. Its phase 2 I have issues with...

[Vvv]

Maliketh is 3rd best for me after Placidusax and Fire Giant. Fire Giant just had this grandiose scale that reminded me Dark souls 3 bosses like Midir or the Ancient Dragon from DS2.

When he starts raining all the fire in his second phases I thought it was an awesome spectacle.