Don't roast the scrubs, respect them

[Drunkenstein]

So apparently some players here want the "scrubs" to get lost, so only the "pros" remain. To which I say is "You must be pants on head retarded to think thats a good idea."
And I am going to explain to you why, and then some;

1) YOU ARE NOTHING WITHOUT THEM

That's reality, because if everyone is pro then no one is. It's the exact same thing as what happened to all of us prior to "Dark Souls" coming out, only at the opposite end of the spectrum. Back then games were getting more and more easy so everyone could be pro, but as a result no one actually was pro.
Now this is the exact same thing if the scrubs lose interest in these games then who is actually going to admire you? Me? Not happening, to me you are pseudo-pros.
All those no hit runs, speed runs etc who actually watches them? The scrubs. Who watches streamers? The scrubs. Who begs for help so that you have a chance to show off your superior skills? The scrubs. You see where I'm going with this?

2) YOU ARE NOT AS GOOD AS YOU THINK

Unfortunately there is a cardinal law to playing video games which all of you know is true. Yeah I know some of you will probably troll me and others by saying it's not true, but ultimately we all know it's as true as the fact that Saturn has rings. And that cardinal law is: "Every game is hardest when you play it for the 1st time."
It's not the 2nd not the 3rd not the 5th or the 100th time, it's the 1st time and you know it.
Because on the 1st playthrough we have to learn the controls, we don't know what is going to happen, and so it's much more difficult than when you replay it. And from there you can only get better. Well your skills may get rusty after taking a long break but you will still do better than on your 1st playthrough, and I know that from my own experience.
For example years ago I played a game called "Rescue Rangers" on the NES which was tough because back then games didn't have saves so you had to play the whole thing from start to finish, well some had passwords but thats beyond the point. The thing is after I replayed the game many times I became so good that I was pretty much untouchable and I could get through even the hardest parts flawlessly.
But then more recently nostalgia hit me and I replayed the game on an emulator and I was clearly not as good as I was at my peak, as I got very rusty after all these years. However, I was still good enough to finish the game regardless.
Next example is the game I played right before "Elden Ring" which was "Spider-Man Remastered" While it's difficulty was nowhere near Elden Ring, it really kicked my ass on my 1st playthrough, as the combat had a lot to consider - when to dodge, hit, web the enemy, pull the enemy, pull yourself to the enemy, throw the enemy, disarm the enemy, knock them into the air, hit them in the air. There was a lot of moves to consider and the combat was fast paced so I got KO'ed a quite lot. But on my 2nd playthrough which was on the newly unlocked "Ultimate" difficulty on NG+ I was really kicking ass and while I did get KO'ed a few times too it was less than I got during some single missions on my 1st playthrough, as now I got the hang of the combat.
Another example is "The Witcher 3" which 1st I played on the Blood and Broked Bones difficulty, but because I was unused to the combat I died a lot so I lowered it to Story and Sword. However, on my 2nd playthrough I immediately jumped to Death March! and again was doing much better than on my 1st.
And that is all there really is to the Soul's series difficulty, It's like playing the Witcher 3 on Death March! from the get go without the option to lower the difficulty. So you either give up or continue until you get a proper hang of the combat.
I get it, most players never play video games on their highest difficulty so it creates the delusion that they are more difficult than others, and while that may be true to some extent they aren't as hard as the rumors proclaim them to be. No they simply have no easy mode for your practice run.
So that's why some pseudo-pros do those pathetic challenge runs, because they want to up the difficulty further. But there is a much simpler solution to that - go play something else where you have to learn the combat from scratch.
In reality they are exactly the same as the FPS bros who play nothing but FPS games, as they don't have to learn the mechanics from scratch that way. I mean each game has it's own tweaks here and there but they are pretty much the same game.

3) Help them instead of trying to get rid of them

Use all that experience you have to help others, just like we wiki editors do. Oh yes I am a Witcher wiki editor and my specialty are game mechanics. For example I'm the author of the strategy on how to beat the Djinn with level upscaling turned on, which now was fixed with the next-gen update, but before that the fight was nigh-impossible, as the Djinn would one-shot you with every hit and absorb damage like a sponge. Yet I found a proper gear and skill set up to beat it. And then I shared the knowledge with others, rather than brag on how superior I am compared to them.
Here is a real challenge for you - find a scrub who is willing to learn and help them finish the game. However, you will not be doing any co-op with them. No, in fact the scrub will be the only one playing the game and you will only provide them with advice and watch them play it - best challenge run ever.

[Krazy Wallet]

"Git Gud" is not roasting them, it's sage advice. It means dying is ok, it means they aren't good yet but they can be. If a boss is too hard, there's too many mobs, too many poison swamps, or too many bad red men, then they aren't good. But they can be. They can be good with patience, practice, deaths, introspection, and honest evaluation.

So much is wrapped into such a short phrase. Two words, poetry in gaming, wisdom in life. If you don't like the outcome, don't cry. Change it.

[Sabaithal]

I'm just going to point out there is a third alternative: Average ppl. Just because we are boring doesn't mean we don't exist.

[Drunkenstein]

Originally posted by Krazy Wallet:

"Git Gud" is not roasting them, it's sage advice. It means dying is ok, it means they aren't good yet but they can be. If a boss is too hard, there's too many mobs, too many poison swamps, or too many bad red men, then they aren't good. But they can be. They can be good with patience, practice, deaths, introspection, and honest evaluation.

So much is wrapped into such a short phrase. Two words, poetry in gaming, wisdom in life. If you don't like the outcome, don't cry. Change it.

Did you actually read what I wrote? I'm not talking about "git gud" thing I'm talking about "pros" want the scrubs to stop playing these games.

[Umbral Knight]

I don't have the animosity in me to be spiteful to those who I invade or aid in battle. It will not lead me to the path of righteousness. Chasethebro is a good example for all invaders.

[Norm Macdonald's Ghost]

Originally posted by Drunkenstein:

...I'm talking about "pros" want the scrubs to stop playing these games.

You're talking about something that doesn't exist.

[Krazy Wallet]

Originally posted by Drunkenstein:

Originally posted by Krazy Wallet:

"Git Gud" is not roasting them, it's sage advice. It means dying is ok, it means they aren't good yet but they can be. If a boss is too hard, there's too many mobs, too many poison swamps, or too many bad red men, then they aren't good. But they can be. They can be good with patience, practice, deaths, introspection, and honest evaluation.

So much is wrapped into such a short phrase. Two words, poetry in gaming, wisdom in life. If you don't like the outcome, don't cry. Change it.

Did you actually read what I wrote? I'm not talking about "git gud" thing I'm talking about "pros" want the scrubs to stop playing these games.

Nope, it was far too long. But what I'm conveying is that we are all refined by fire. Roast the scrubs, it will make them better. I don't respect them, I envy them. I wish I could experience these games for the first time again.

[Drunkenstein]

Originally posted by Krazy Wallet:

Originally posted by Drunkenstein:

Did you actually read what I wrote? I'm not talking about "git gud" thing I'm talking about "pros" want the scrubs to stop playing these games.

Nope, it was far too long. But what I'm conveying is that we are all refined by fire. Roast the scrubs, it will make them better. I don't respect them, I envy them. I wish I could experience these games for the first time again.

Right, right that's one of the things I mention here, that the 1st playthrough is always the hardest - see this is what happens when you just read the title.

[Krazy Wallet]

Originally posted by Drunkenstein:

Originally posted by Krazy Wallet:

Nope, it was far too long. But what I'm conveying is that we are all refined by fire. Roast the scrubs, it will make them better. I don't respect them, I envy them. I wish I could experience these games for the first time again.

Right, right that's one of the things I mention here, that the 1st playthrough is always the hardest - see this is what happens when you just read the title.

Glad you agree- roast the scrubs to ashes!!!

Brevity can also be your friend in a forum post

[The Spirit of Jazz]

It was my understanding that a "scrub" is somebody new to the game, who struggles with the game, in this case Elden Ring, but refuses to learn and improve. So for example, they might complain on here about a boss being too hard, then when offered advice on builds and tactics and so forth, they respond along the lines of "No, this is bollocks, Miyazaki is a masochist and can suck my arse, these games are for losers etc..."?

[DayLight1943]

i cant ever recall seeing a good example of what youre talking about, it sounds like you are inventing things to be indignant about.

the closest thing i can think of to what you are talking about is when someone complains about aspects of the game that are fundamental and integral to the souls formula, and people suggest that maybe the game isnt for them, which imo is often reasonable, but sometimes isnt. its pretty common to see folks with no real experience with souls games complaining about longtime, beloved mechanics or aspects of the game, and its obvious they dont really understand how the thing they are complaining about works, or why so many other people enjoy it. often they can be a little rude or insulting, and come with all kinds of ideas on how the game should be changed that are very unappealing to fromsofts core fan base. so naturally, someone suggests that maybe souls games/ER just isnt for them, and that maybe these folks should look into games they might enjoy more, rather than angrily list off a bunch of wildly unpopular changes to how the game works that would ruin what makes the series special in the first place.

but nobody wants people to leave the game just because they are a "scrub" who isnt super skilled or dont have hundreds or thousands of hours of souls experience. that is totally absurd. most people who do lots of co-op and pvp enjoy and seek out less experienced players, either to help them thru the level or with a boss in co-op, or to invade a less experienced co-op group in an "organic" invasion, to leverage the invaders skill vs the hosts numbers. thats like, the main appeal of random co-op and "organic" invasions.

i challenge you to find even a small list of examples of experienced souls players saying that less experienced or less dedicated players should leave the game because they are "scrubs".

[zero]

Originally posted by Norm Macdonald's Ghost:

Originally posted by Drunkenstein:

...I'm talking about "pros" want the scrubs to stop playing these games.

You're talking about something that doesn't exist.

this feels correct in this context.

where are you seeing people demanding new people stop playing?

[Sc0rpiTr0n]

"1) YOU ARE NOTHING WITHOUT THEM"
Very good point, and one I am sure, developers understands very well.

Not so sure "Core Fans" (tm) do though.
Fortunately there are not that many arrogant, elitist gatekeepers in community.

[Kalameet]

I'm literally crying... it's so rare to see such reality check moments happen.

My best guess is the community is split 50/50 on silently driving away as many players as possible, while the other wants as many noobs to happen, so they can hunt them down like prey.

My disappointment and despise for soulsborne communities, from a pure humanity POV, can only grow stronger.

[Dr.Falcon]

Don't really understand the points being made here. Firstly, there are no "professional" Elden Ring players. There is no EVO PvP scene for this game with company backing and prize pools deciding if Player A is better than Player B-Z. You could, potentially, consider players from the Speedrunning scene to be "Pro", but something tells me that you're not particularly talking about those players.

"Elitists" could be a better term to fit the argument you're making, however I still find it hard to believe that a majority of players would dissuade newcomers from playing. I personally have never seen this.

I also don't know who's doubting your argument on "Your first playthrough is the hardest" exactly. I'd say that it's mostly true, but I bet something like "Fist only-no armor-RL1" is probably a lot harder than most players initial casual playthrough. Skill is on a gradient, some will just find certain games easier than others. I bet that if you're a newcomer to "Souls" games, then yes of course your first playthrough will be difficult. Much like a newcomers first taste of an MMO, RPG, Rogue-like, or platformer will have equally a difficult time.

People seem to over fetishize the difficulty of games like this. Souls games are very fair for the most part, its just a matter getting used to the combat mechanics and leveling systems. There is a learning curve. Veterans of the series dislike when things are added to the game that take away from this learning curve. For example, Spirit Ashes make Elden Ring very accessible to newcomers as it gives them another advantage in a disadvantageous situation. In theory it is a decent system, however there is no doubt that it takes away part of the learning curve that most other Fromsoft games require a player to learn, i.e why it was a controversial choice to include them in the game.

Your "pseudo-pro's", as you name them, seem to encompass content creators. I wouldn't just say "skrubs" make up the majority of players that watch content on Elden RIng. "Skrub" is also really demeaning, you could just say newcomers or even just "average". Information is key in these games, the more information a player knows on the game the better they probably are. An average viewer of the content might just enjoy the content, "Oh how hard is it to beat the game with 'X', oh that seems easier/harder than I thought". A player who seeks to know more about that game and get mechanically better, the "above average", will actually be inspired to do those challenge runs, or make builds around certain aspects of the game, or learn movement tech that seems cool. It's never really for the difficulty, it's for the experience and most people who play ER will watch content from others to see their unique experience with the game.

I've "coached" two of my friends through ER. One is a complete newcomer, and one played through DS3 where I also "coached" them. They both didn't use spirit ashes, beat the game, had very different builds by the end, and enjoyed the game for the most part. The friend who was completely new required assistance for Radagon and Malenia, which is fine considering they went through 99% of the game without summoning.

I wouldn't be so dismissive of the people who plan to stick with ER for the long term. In fact, it would be great if more people actually stuck around from the initial launch. I wouldn't let some obviously trollish posts on the Steam forums or Fextra trick you into thinking the Veterans of the game don't want new players joining.

[Heimdall313]

I am the scrub, I have always been the scrub, I will always be the scrub. Summoning the Kaiden ash on Rennala and watching him throw her down and chop her up with a giant machete as I stand in horror of this barefoot troll that's infinity-summoned me to death 7 times in a row, my scrub self had no shame in doing. Absolutely 12/10.

Originally posted by Dr.Falcon:

"Elitists" could be a better term to fit the argument you're making

People seem to over fetishize the difficulty of games like this.