ELDEN RING

ELDEN RING

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Absolute newbie with questions about Sword & Board builds
Hello everyone, against my better judgement and to the detriment of my sanity, I decided to pick up the game. I have some cursory experience with Sekiro and the original Darksouls: Prepare to Die edition (I got as far as the first "boss" in the pit that you run into in the starter area and that's pretty much it).

Needless to say, this is my first dedicated stroll into a souls style game. With that in mind I have a few questions.

Currently I started off with the Vagabound character template.

1. I'm hoping to go with a Sword and shield setup (I like the fantasy behind it); how viable is this?

2. What stats should I look into while creating this character?

3. Is there a maximum amount of "damage" a shield can block?

4. Are there attacks that simply cannot be blocked at all by a shield such as magical damage?

5. Is there ever a time it's better to switch away from the shield and instead use your sword, mace, hammer etc. with 2 hands? If so, any advice on when?

6. Can you upgrade and improve a shield to have a "better parry" window or is this just inherent to the shields themselves and cannot be changed or modified?

I watched a video discussing parrying and how different shields have different "frames" duration's or windows that allow you to parry (The beginner heater shield apparently has roughly 7 frames while the small shield and buckler have 13 and 15 respectively. Outside of these small things I'm unsure what I'm doing in this game and am looking forward to the experience of (dying a lot) exploring the games world.
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Showing 1-15 of 41 comments
Sabaithal Apr 29, 2023 @ 8:19pm 
1. If you go for greatshields, it trivializes 90% of the game. Level STR mainly and get a greatshield with high guard boost.

2. Mainly STR for the greatshield, and probably DEX to a lesser degree. The rest should be VIGOR and END if you're just going for a straightforward build.

3. You can check shield stats. Not all shields block all incoming damage, depending on the damage type. There is also Guard Boost, which reduces the incoming stamina damage when guarding.

4. Magical attacks can be blocked, but many shields only give partial mitigation. Grab attacks are what you should be wary of, some enemies have them and they cannot be blocked.

5. Assuming you're not great at dodging yet, only if you intend to out DPS something through brute force, but there aren't many situations where this will matter if using weapons smaller than a greatsword.

6. No, parry window is static. Upgrading a shield mainly improves guard boost. You can however get some Ashes of War that give you upgraded versions of the standard parry if that's what you want.

For reference, you should not try and parry with greatshields, they are not made for that. If you intend to parry you should use a buckler, because it specifically has longer parry windows than other shields. However its damage mitigation and guard boost are terrible, as are all small shields.

You can get good parry windows, or good protection, not both (not until later anyway).
Last edited by Sabaithal; Apr 29, 2023 @ 8:27pm
vapechimp Apr 29, 2023 @ 8:25pm 
Lol good luck with sword and shield 2 minutes into the game when you meet the Scion
Clail Apr 29, 2023 @ 8:28pm 
Sword and shield is very viable and my favorite in most souls-likes. I won't go into stats as it really varies by personal playstyle and weapon choice, but stamina is the resource that takes a beating when blocking.

Heavy attacks, larger enemies, and certain AoW's can break your guard. The damage is still mitigated, but you are thrown into a stunned animation. Usually you can get your shield back up or roll for distance immediately after, although human enemies may crit you during the stun. Beyond that certain weapons/AoW's may have enhanced chip damage through shields, but it's rare you run into them. When dealing with mages swap to a shield with better magic damage resist.

Two hand if you want to try and stagger enemies, stance break a little easier, or the enemy is stunned/locked in a long recovery animation. Primarily benefits weapons with high strength scaling, otherwise I usually don't bother.

Small shields have more parry frames, but are garbage for normal defense. There's a few AoW's that have visual cues to make it easier, but honestly I would forget about parry unless you plan on taking full advantage of a weapon with a higher than normal crit modifier. Shield bash lets you attack while defending, or no weapon skill at all lets you use your weapons AoW instead.
Artimise Flare Apr 29, 2023 @ 8:29pm 
Originally posted by vapechimp:
Lol good luck with sword and shield 2 minutes into the game when you meet the Scion

Is it that bad? I'm already out of that area (died rather quickly lol) and out in an open field with some wandering golden knight dude and a bunch of other knights with green white and red tabard's/regalia carrying torches.
Artimise Flare Apr 29, 2023 @ 8:31pm 
Originally posted by Clail:
Sword and shield is very viable and my favorite in most souls-likes. I won't go into stats as it really varies by personal playstyle and weapon choice, but stamina is the resource that takes a beating when blocking.

Heavy attacks, larger enemies, and certain AoW's can break your guard. The damage is still mitigated, but you are thrown into a stunned animation. Usually you can get your shield back up or roll for distance immediately after, although human enemies may crit you during the stun. Beyond that certain weapons/AoW's may have enhanced chip damage through shields, but it's rare you run into them. When dealing with mages swap to a shield with better magic damage resist.

Two hand if you want to try and stagger enemies, stance break a little easier, or the enemy is stunned/locked in a long recovery animation. Primarily benefits weapons with high strength scaling, otherwise I usually don't bother.

Small shields have more parry frames, but are garbage for normal defense. There's a few AoW's that have visual cues to make it easier, but honestly I would forget about parry unless you plan on taking full advantage of a weapon with a higher than normal crit modifier. Shield bash lets you attack while defending, or no weapon skill at all lets you use your weapons AoW instead.

Sorry, could you please explain what AoW means?
cheetah1546 Apr 29, 2023 @ 8:35pm 
i love my greatshield and prelates inferno crozier
Argonaut Apr 29, 2023 @ 8:54pm 
Originally posted by Artimise Flare:
1. I'm hoping to go with a Sword and shield setup (I like the fantasy behind it); how viable is this?
It becomes less effective the further into the game you go and the stronger the enemy you face. It will still be useful against normal enemies late into the game but nowhere near as good as it was until then and it will become extremely weak against endgame bosses.

2. What stats should I look into while creating this character?
Vigor and endurance. You will most likely also want to scale damage from dex since you will be one handing.

3. Is there a maximum amount of "damage" a shield can block?
Depends on the block value and how much endurance you have. If a hit depletes all your endurance it bypasses your block and you eat the damage or get guard broken which leaves you vulnerable.

4. Are there attacks that simply cannot be blocked at all by a shield such as magical damage?
I haven't used shields in ER but pancake attacks or jump attacks that land on top of you + grab attacks are unblockable. There are also ashes like impaling thrust that bypass shields and the vulgar militia shotel and scythes that do damage through shields so there are a few things that can bypass block. As for magic damage there is a shield in the game with 90 magic block but it's fairly late game.

5. Is there ever a time it's better to switch away from the shield and instead use your sword, mace, hammer etc. with 2 hands? If so, any advice on when?
Yeah any boss starting in the Altus plateau area or any oversized boss such as the falling star beast. Enemies with strong combos like the dual greatsword exile knight or charge attack multi hits like the dogs in caelid will also just crunch through your medium shield and will be easier to defeat by staggering them.

6. Can you upgrade and improve a shield to have a "better parry" window or is this just inherent to the shields themselves and cannot be changed or modified?
You can uses the Golden Parry ashes of war that has more frames than even the buckler advanced parry animation.

I watched a video discussing parrying and how different shields have different "frames" duration's or windows that allow you to parry (The beginner heater shield apparently has roughly 7 frames while the small shield and buckler have 13 and 15 respectively. Outside of these small things I'm unsure what I'm doing in this game and am looking forward to the experience of (dying a lot) exploring the games world.
There is the normal parry and the special parry animation from buckler and then ashe of war parries like golden vow and carian retaliation.

Golden vow has the most parry frames followed by the buckler parry follower by normal parry. IIRC Carian retaliation and storm wall are better than regular parry but not quite as good as golden parry.
Clail Apr 29, 2023 @ 8:55pm 
Originally posted by Artimise Flare:

Sorry, could you please explain what AoW means?

They are skills like stand off or parry you activate with L2. You can change them out on generic weapons, if you just started, you'll get a tutorial on them when you get a certain item.
Sabaithal Apr 29, 2023 @ 9:03pm 
AoW: Short for "ashes of war". Basically non-somber weapons can use these to change their special attack animations.
Sword and shield is viable for mobs and some bosses if rely on parrying go with a buckler and mis. corde I personally recommend a str faith build for beginners that can deal a lot of damage quickly like the star fists AoW crageblade and plenty of build guides to follow.
CazadorDeLobo Apr 29, 2023 @ 9:06pm 
Originally posted by Sabaithal:
AoW: Short for "ashes of war". Basically non-somber weapons can use these to change their special attack animations.
In addition to being able to customize the L2 skill of these weapons, you can alter the way the weapon increases its bonus damage from your character's stats. More options become available as you find the corresponding key items. This allows greater freedom of choice for your playstyle/build. It is one of the more unique aspects of ER.
clarkeveritas Apr 29, 2023 @ 10:16pm 
Oh I love questions like this and if ER clicks with you- you have a LOT of fun times ahead. The 2 numbers i look at with shields are 1) How much damage does it block, %-wise. I think that's the top-right number. What's' more important to me, however, is the stability of the shield (think it's the bottom-right number). A high-stability shield will reduce how much stamina you lose when blocking. There are some good shields early-on and you can upgrade them to increase their stability. There are some bigger/stronger enemies that hit HARD, so you won't be able to just sit there and soak up hits, but with a high-stability shield you'll be surprised how many enemies you can just block their hits instead of dodging. Obviously many of the bosses you'll only be able to block a hit or two until you recharge your stamina but you're usually not taking very much damage (if any) by just blocking. There is an early shield (Lordsworn Shield if i recall) that can carry you through much of the game. I'm usually a sword-and-boarder so this is all from my recent ER playthrough.

The cool thing is that you could go with dual-weapons, magic, archery..... the build variety is insane.
impuretrash2878 Apr 29, 2023 @ 10:24pm 
the vagabond stats out with very good equipment. Especially the shield since it blocks 100% of damage unlike many others that let a little bit through. Longsword is also a very solid weapon. You might want to add a bow into the mix so you can lure distant enemies towards you so you don't have to fight them in groups.

You could even head to castle morne way down on the southern tip of weeping peninsula and grab the claymore. Its just like the longsword but way bigger. Now that my friend, is a good weapon.
Artimise Flare Apr 29, 2023 @ 11:05pm 
Originally posted by clarkeveritas:
Oh I love questions like this and if ER clicks with you- you have a LOT of fun times ahead. The 2 numbers i look at with shields are 1) How much damage does it block, %-wise. I think that's the top-right number. What's' more important to me, however, is the stability of the shield (think it's the bottom-right number). A high-stability shield will reduce how much stamina you lose when blocking. There are some good shields early-on and you can upgrade them to increase their stability. There are some bigger/stronger enemies that hit HARD, so you won't be able to just sit there and soak up hits, but with a high-stability shield you'll be surprised how many enemies you can just block their hits instead of dodging. Obviously many of the bosses you'll only be able to block a hit or two until you recharge your stamina but you're usually not taking very much damage (if any) by just blocking. There is an early shield (Lordsworn Shield if i recall) that can carry you through much of the game. I'm usually a sword-and-boarder so this is all from my recent ER playthrough.

The cool thing is that you could go with dual-weapons, magic, archery..... the build variety is insane.


Hmm, so perhaps a bow and a good 2H heavy weapon for mobs that I may need to fight late game? Does the sword and board build overlap with using 2H weapons well also, or does that require a different spread of stats to be viable?
Honk1 Apr 29, 2023 @ 11:40pm 
Originally posted by Artimise Flare:
Originally posted by clarkeveritas:
Oh I love questions like this and if ER clicks with you- you have a LOT of fun times ahead. The 2 numbers i look at with shields are 1) How much damage does it block, %-wise. I think that's the top-right number. What's' more important to me, however, is the stability of the shield (think it's the bottom-right number). A high-stability shield will reduce how much stamina you lose when blocking. There are some good shields early-on and you can upgrade them to increase their stability. There are some bigger/stronger enemies that hit HARD, so you won't be able to just sit there and soak up hits, but with a high-stability shield you'll be surprised how many enemies you can just block their hits instead of dodging. Obviously many of the bosses you'll only be able to block a hit or two until you recharge your stamina but you're usually not taking very much damage (if any) by just blocking. There is an early shield (Lordsworn Shield if i recall) that can carry you through much of the game. I'm usually a sword-and-boarder so this is all from my recent ER playthrough.

The cool thing is that you could go with dual-weapons, magic, archery..... the build variety is insane.


Hmm, so perhaps a bow and a good 2H heavy weapon for mobs that I may need to fight late game? Does the sword and board build overlap with using 2H weapons well also, or does that require a different spread of stats to be viable?

You can combine any melee weapon with a shield as long as you have the stats to use it and the equip load to wield both at the same time (by the way - the vagabond starts off with heavy equip load which is never a good idea, so take of the halberd or some armor if you haven't already). So you don't have to use a light weapon like a straight sword, you can e.g. use a greatsword one-handed and switch over to two-handing if your shield does not benefit you in a fight.

Greatshields are a lot heavier, so you will have to dedicate more stat points to them if you want to use them. You cannot parry with a greatshield. If you want to parry and block, it's best to use a medium shield and put an ash of war with better parry frames on it because the default one on a medium shield is garbage.

One thing that is very strong against normal enemies is guard counters: If you block an attack and then press the button for the heavy attack, you do a special attack that deals a lot of posture damage to your enemies. You will get a lot of opportunities for critical hits that way. Guard counters are a lot faster with lighter weapons like curved swords and straight swords, but you can also use them on heavier weapons.
Last edited by Honk1; Apr 29, 2023 @ 11:40pm
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Date Posted: Apr 29, 2023 @ 8:09pm
Posts: 41