Why is the Player Character [Tarnished] so overpowered?

[ElectricMutt]

I'd like to know how the player character became so strong, right out of the (First Step, Grace point) gate.

For reference, Godfrey was the first to become Elden Lord and this guy can cause a cataclysmic event with his hands alone. You as the tarnished player character HAVE to defeat him to finish the game, regardless of what direction you're going with the RP endings.

Another such mandatory boss fight is Maliketh whom the demi-gods themselves feared. There's a real chance this guy could've put the fear in just about anyone we fight as the PC and with good reason too. He possesses the rune of death and this very thing was used to kill Godwyn, causing the first true death to occur in this realm for literally ages.
He also ends up using this very thing against us when we fight him.

Of course, we as the player character slap him around like a street mutt.

If that wasn't enough, we end up killing an actual god and the very source behind its godhood. Even if we assume the PC has the rune of death in their possession at this point, I have my doubts as to how it could be used against the Elden Beast due to its nature.

Even Godrick and certainly Margit, could take out just about anything less than a demi-god. Yes, Godrick supposedly hid among the women after he knew Malenia was coming for him, but again, Malenia could make just about anyone ♥♥♥♥♥ themselves so even a "coward" like Godrick would be impossible for anything lesser to kill.

We don't start out with a great rune either and none of the backgrounds of the classes really gives any clue on how your character could be the next Horah Loux or whatever.

There's a few other Tarnished we know about who became very strong I guess.

• Vyke who earned the favor of the dragons
  
• Knight (Recusant) Bernahl
  
  But can you honestly imagine either of those two accomplishing what the PC ends up doing? I don't know, it just doesn't sit too well with me. We have this elaborate world building and here comes a level 1 Wretch clubbing a literal god to death.
  
  What's your take on it?

[An Irate Walrus]

Something to consider, from a philosophical standpoint, is that all gods can be reduced to humanity's attempts to explain the inexplicable; they give us a sense of order in a chaotic universe.

Because they are human constructs, they are imperfect--and in their imperfection, they are vulnerable.

This goes double for *people* who are elevated to the status of godhood; they are generally the subject of legend, and while all legends begin from a grain of truth, what we end up passing down across the generations is--much like a pearl--a whole lot of crap formed around that initial grain.

When the Tarnished starts cutting down demigods, they are cutting through the legend, and destroying the grain--the much smaller, much weaker truth cocooned in generations of story.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by An Irate Walrus:

When the Tarnished starts cutting down demigods, they are cutting through the legend, and destroying the grain--the much smaller, much weaker truth cocooned in generations of story.

If you can make god bleed people will cease to believe in him.

[Nibbie]

Originally posted by ElectricMutt:

• Vyke who earned the favor of the dragons
  
  But can you honestly imagine either of those two accomplishing what the PC ends up doing?

Yes. He literally stopped just short of what we do.
"No other Tarnished was closer to the throne of the Elden Lord than Vyke. But without announcement, Vyke traveled far below the capital, and was scorched by the flame of frenzy.

Did he make his choice for his maiden, or did some other force lure him with suggestion?"

Which suggests he made it at least as far as the Mountaintop of the Giants (which is also where we fight him in an evergaol). He didn't end up going through with it for one reason or another, but he was as few as three/four bosses away from becoming Elden Lord.

And in any case, the crux of your argument seems to be that people who are extremely good at the game can technically beat it at level 1, but that's a really weak pillar. Such a playthrough is obviously not intended or designed around in any way.

Over the course of the game you level up, find better weapons, armor, and other tools, upgrade those things, claim great runes, and so on. The tarnished is relatively weak when he starts out, and it is only through training, persistence, and the blessings of grace and runes that he becomes strong enough to defeat a god. A player's personal skill level allowing them to circumvent that process isn't really canon. It's like being able to beat Breath of the Wild as soon as you leave the Great Plateau; they let you do it, but you obviously aren't supposed to, and only the version of events where Link did every other important quest first is canon in Tears of the Kingdom.

Why other tarnished haven't achieved such a thing varies by person. Some aren't blessed by grace anymore; some don't, and perhaps never had, a maiden to give them strength; and some simply don't have the desire or will to go through it all.

[ElectricMutt]

@Sabaithal
300 was a pretty cool movie for its time, but nah. You can easily spin this type of logic into something else entirely. Bloodborne did this with the narrative around blood of the old gods.

@Walrus, the two finger seems to represent the Elder Beast, yeah? With the three-fingers representing the frenzied flame. I wonder what this says about those hand monsters climbing all over Ranni's area.

[Sabaithal]

Was quoting something else actually. Also bloodborne will matter when it comes to PC.

[MadHamster]

Cause this is a casual action-argp-slasher-adventure-game and not cruelty simulator like Cruelty Squad or Dungeons of Fear and Hunger.

[Valthejean]

Originally posted by ElectricMutt:

@Sabaithal
300 was a pretty cool movie for its time, but nah. You can easily spin this type of logic into something else entirely. Bloodborne did this with the narrative around blood of the old gods.

@Walrus, the two finger seems to represent the Elder Beast, yeah? With the three-fingers representing the frenzied flame. I wonder what this says about those hand monsters climbing all over Ranni's area.

Minor correction (because it relates to my theory crafting XD) the Two-Fingers represent the Greater Will, and were given by the Greater Will to the various demigods. The Elden Beast is referred to as a "Vassal" of the Greater Will, so while it is assumed they are aligned, the fact that they are unaware about the thorns is what leads me to believe the Elden Beast went rogue. After all, if you've played Total War Warhammer, you know what fickle little ♥♥♥♥♥ vassals can be ;)

Since we are talking about Vyke in relation to the three-fingers, I wonder if it was potentially the same idea. We know that the frenzied flame was summoned to the land by the nomads, did it perchance make Vyke it's own personal "god" like the Greater Will did with Marika? It would then make sense for it to bestow Vyke with its own set of fingers for guidance. Or that's probably reading too much into it, and he just came across the fingers as well.

[Sabaithal]

I think its more likely that the two-fingers simply aren't loyal to the greater will, and to be fair who is anymore? Their manipulations have gone in directions that actively undermine the golden order at its height, when it seemed to be aligned with the greater will.

Namely it was the two-fingers that tasked the Gloam-eyed-queen, the original wielder of destined death, to bring down the other demigods. And she was stopped by Maliketh, who is loyal to Marika. There is subtle implication, especially since the GEQ wielded the blackflame (all flames being heretical in nature) that the ultimate goal was to burn away the defenses of the Erdtree and access the Elden Ring.

Then there is of course manipulating the tarnished with the promise of becoming "Elden Lord" which they had no intentions of keeping. All they needed was convenient puppets to remove certain key obstacles, though to what end I do not know.

So it isn't exactly clear where anyone's loyalties lie. Lot of people say one thing, then take actions to the contrary.

[Haggis]

But WHY is the Tarnished so overpowered?
... Simple.
He is Miquella.

You play as Miquella. There's quite a few hints about this, though the most blatantly obvious is that Torrent recognises you in one of the few scripted cutscenes. Torrent is Miquella's horse, entrusted to Rani to give to who-ever it is that his soul inhabits.

Rani herself, as a doll, was a test of Miquella's. Miquella's whole plan has been to remove Marika and Radagon from their position of unquestioned dominance and end the rule of the Golden Order. Initially he tried to create an alternate to the Erdtree, by creating the Haligtree. This failed and the Haligtree withered.

So his new plan was all about putting souls in new bodies. The demigods could not fight against the gods in their own bodies. I'm not entirely sure why, but Rani makes a point about this, and this is why we are told that she puts her soul in a doll; so that she could kill Godfrey.

We also know that it was Miquella who put her soul in the doll. Miquella who was dabbling with moving souls about, but to what end?

Isn't it obvious. He wanted to overthrow Radagon and Marika and end the Golden Order. He could not defy them in his own body as a demigod, because apparently that's a thing, as Rani tells us. He tests the soul displacing with Rani first because he is the brains behind the operation; if it goes wrong, then he needs to be there to try a new path. But it did work. Rani proves it worked, and that she can do once forbidden acts by killing Godfrey.

So after that worked, he makes a plan with Rani and gives her Torrent, telling her that Torrent will recognise his soul in the new body that it inhabits. And so Miquella goes forth to end the Golden Order, and puts his soul in to a new body... in to...
You.

That's why you are OP as ♥♥♥♥. You are the soul of a demi-god, the smartest demi-god of all; a demi-god who has set you up for success with Rani and Melina.

[Sabaithal]

There are a LOT of holes in that. Namely, and critically, the tarnished is not Miquella. You can find Miquella in game, and its not you.

[vamirez]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

There are a LOT of holes in that. Namely, and critically, the tarnished is not Miquella. You can find Miquella in game, and its not you.

*scratches chin*
I think you might be on to something here.
*nods*

[Elbonris]

It's not the elden ring that gives you power, its the friends you made along the way.

Also tarnished have a small amount of saiyan cells so each time they nearly die theh get stronger. Because of the whole site of grace thing, meaning they do die and then come back, this increases the power boost from the saiyan cells.

In short, dying makes them stronger and they can fight tbe demi god an infinite number of times until they can best them.

Like Goku, but the tarnished can't beat goku

[ElectricMutt]

@Sabaithal the fingers go offline when you bring the news of the thorns barring the way. Seems they didn't really know for a fact. The whole legacy of the fire giants also implies that the fires of the giant cauldron isn't something that happens and it's a cardinal sin.

I think we have to conclude that betrayal against the order and by extension, Marika is on-going. Whatever Marika knew that lead her to shattering the elden ring, Ofnir saw it too and it made him shudder in fear. Or at least, if my memory serves correctly that's how it went. Same with mistaking the Elden Beast for the greater will.

[lailaamell]

Sword weak big club good bonking strong XD

[Automaton-37467]

Originally posted by ElectricMutt:

Of course, we as the player character slap him around like a street mutt.

Idk about you but my first time fighting maliketh felt like i was being slapped around like a street mutt