Wow pure melee is unfun

[Oleander]

Seriously, the input reading and opening for anything on some enemies makes melee feel in-viable. Now I totally understand a lot of the posts I saw about it before.

I'm messing around at lv20 and doing fine for the most part. Then I got to Istvan. I've noticed issues with some similar fights but when I was playing Int/Dark Moon it was easy to make some distance and still do stuff. Now with I'm trying out Dex/Str and I swear this is some boring crap. I have to wait a year for any kind of opening for an attack, though when I do have an opening it does decent damage.

Problem isn't that it's hard, it's just miserably boring. I've gotten Istvan to 1/2 or 1/4hp a number of times but the fight takes so long that I get distracted and miss a timing or something some like getting stuck on a tree/rock.

He: input reads every time I do anything, so follow up attacks get dodged literally every single time. Dodges every single pot I throw automatically. The amount of hp he has makes it take absolute ages.

I've been dealing with this a lot, enemies not being particularly hard to kill because they are DESIGNED to be cheesed, but if you don't follow specific setups it's basically pointless, or a completely miserable slough.

This character is just for low lvl pvp and coop, but I wanted to at least fight some of these "normally". I'm not having fun anymore so I guess I'll just use some bs tactic that invalidates the entire fight but damn does it not feel good, and it happens way too often in this. Especially for how good so much else is.

Tl;Dr mad cuz bad, basically venting- but honestly enemies like this are BORING, not hard.

[This PC]

run in, jump, r2

if(enemy == stance broken)
{
criticalhit();
} else {
runout();
}

I don't understand people panning magic for being easy mode, it's more like, funmode x)

[Sparhawk 59]

Your not supposed to be RL 20 doing these NPC invaders anyway.

[imagine having an anime pfp]

just go back to spam comet azur if your not having fun

[MF]

Originally posted by Akkiraus:

Seriously, the input reading and opening for anything on some enemies makes melee feel in-viable. Now I totally understand a lot of the posts I saw about it before.

I'm messing around at lv20 and doing fine for the most part. Then I got to Istvan. I've noticed issues with some similar fights but when I was playing Int/Dark Moon it was easy to make some distance and still do stuff. Now with I'm trying out Dex/Str and I swear this is some boring crap. I have to wait a year for any kind of opening for an attack, though when I do have an opening it does decent damage.

You're invading Istvan at level 20 ? That implies you've been to Volcano Manor. At level 20 ? Istvan is a hard fight - at 20 he'd be nigh on impossible.

If you don't like the combat, go play Skyrim.

[Lynfinity]

You're just not used to pure melee and that's why you're having so many troubles. Simple as. Practice makes perfect, as they say.

And on the subject of "not fun" - to each their own. Prelate's Inferno Crozier with "Lion's Claw", Godslayer's Greatsword, powerstancing Great Stars with "Waves of Darkness" - just to name a few personal favorites of mine.

Recently been rocking Crescent Moon Axe with "Sword Dance" + Cold infusion and this thing brings nothing but a smile to my face. Also Envoy's Longhorn because bubbles go brrr.

[This PC]

I don't feel like rocking a weapon with a R2 that is basically a spell is meleeing ? x)
Otherwise, I'm melee build go brr because I use Hoarfrost and DM GS a lot.

I guess ultimately though, all builds will do a little bit of everything. ^^''
About comet azur, it's fun when the stars align, but they rarely do.
"Okay, throw Ranni's moon at boss, golden vow, seppuku, terra magica, chug flask, throw comet azur, kill boss", but that whole setup leaves you open for like, 30 seconds and then boss sidesteps it by an inch. :D

[2001 Space Oddity]

Sounds like you just need to play more aggressively. There's no need to wait 10 minutes for an opening, just rush in and kick some ass. It takes some time to learn the enemy attacks, but you can often avoid their attack as part of your attack.

For example crucible knights, if you jump attack just before they do one of their horizontal attacks (they always start the fight with one) you will hit them first, land in a crouched position, and their attack will go over your head. You can also use stamp sweep/stamp upward cut to duck under their attack and follow up with big damage.

[vamirez]

There is no input reading. Also using items or mechanisms provided by the game is not cheesing. Try again.

[This PC]

Originally posted by vamirez:

There is no input reading.

Input reading is absolutely a thing. After a while, you learn to bait it from the AI and take advantage of it. It's pretty obvious when you play at range a lot. Even Carbot acknowledges it in an animation about godskin apostle. x)

[vamirez]

Originally posted by jdtuggey:

Originally posted by vamirez:

There is no input reading.

Input reading is absolutely a thing. After a while, you learn to bait it from the AI and take advantage of it. It's pretty obvious when you play at range a lot. Even Carbot acknowledges it in an animation about godskin apostle. x)

There is no input reading :)
There is animation reading, which results in almost instant reaction to certain actions. You can discuss if it's too quick or if it's fine, i.e. don't heal when the enemy is idle.
But there is no input reading.

[Belalang Tempur]

fight humanoid enemy?
step one fully charged crucible horn
step top followed by fully charged ordovis vortex
step three if its hit correctly = stance broken
step three critical hit
this way alone you would atleast deal 2k -3k damage if you were geared well no spell buff or flask

[EPDC ChaosAvatar1]

Originally posted by jdtuggey:

Originally posted by vamirez:

There is no input reading.

Input reading is absolutely a thing. After a while, you learn to bait it from the AI and take advantage of it. It's pretty obvious when you play at range a lot. Even Carbot acknowledges it in an animation about godskin apostle. x)

didnt zulie make a video on that?

[Oleander]

I'm definitely not that used to melee which is part of the problem. I'm also way under leveled for it too, the wep upgrades clearly impact things even more than I thought too, since I'm only using +0(mainly been using Bloodhound's Fang- though I think I'll be able to do it with a scythe when I have time).I've killed the black knife assassin in sage's cave and fought a bunch of stronger enemies without issue(sentry torch saved me lol). Istvan, and some I fought even with range at higher level, just feel like they are more designed to be annoying and long fights rather than particularly interesting.

Again, subjective- but still. There's a reason chess players vs good AI always loose. It's not about being hard, it's about tuning it to be hard enough for people to enjoy the challenge. I just (personally) feel like Istvan is annoying, as well as a lot of the high hp, fast enemies late game. Granted I think a lot of these issues are self-imposed. Because I was hoping to play a particular way.

Worth noting that, despite the frustration, I am having a blast doing all this at level 20. Feels like a more appropriate challenge than my first run through which was just dragon memes

[DrVenkman]

The melee in this game is a challenge but since I’m old (I played Pong on the family TV as a kid when it was new …) and stubborn (possibly related to the above), it’s been working for me. I’m also an exploration type, which - combined with the above - explains why I’ve got 240 hours in this game and at level 122 still haven’t finished it.

Anyway, the “trick” for a melee build is to find a good weapon that scales well with you leveling build, and for melee, that’s often going to be Strength and Dex. Equip your good weapons with the Ash of War or use the one the weapon comes with enough to understand its strengths and weaknesses and the TIMING of it, which is key: how long does it take to wind up and deliver? You’ve gotta get a feel for that to be able to make it count while not getting pummeled and possibly even one-shotted by enemies as you try to strike.

For me, it’s the Bloodhound Fang or Radahn’s sword, both of which are powerful but both have a windup. So timing is absolutely critical to make them count. It helps too to have a well-leveled up set of Spirit Ashes, if for nothing else than to serve as cannon fodder or a distraction while you get close enough and have time enough for your melee attacks.

Anyway, just two cents from an ancient relic of a gamer … carry on.

[Evilsod]

Originally posted by vamirez:

Originally posted by jdtuggey:

Input reading is absolutely a thing. After a while, you learn to bait it from the AI and take advantage of it. It's pretty obvious when you play at range a lot. Even Carbot acknowledges it in an animation about godskin apostle. x)

There is no input reading :)
There is animation reading, which results in almost instant reaction to certain actions. You can discuss if it's too quick or if it's fine, i.e. don't heal when the enemy is idle.
But there is no input reading.

I've seen this bs comment before. What difference does it make between the game reading your input and the game reading your animation? It still reacts to what you're doing with a pre-determined response, before it's humanly possible to do so.

It's also why Rock Sling and Phalanx never left my bar on my sorcerer playthrough, because both of them absolutely destroy NPC invaders who don't react to them correctly at all.