Max level means nothing

[Odal]

I used a trainer to max all attributes to 99. And You know what? There was no difference, or hardly any at all, with level 1 wretch. I could not oneshot the first soldiers I met in Limgrave, and when I tried killing the bear in Dragonbarrow Cave, with the great sword I had gotten in Limgrave, held with two hands, I hardly put a dent on the bear's health, and I was the one dying very quickly!
Apparently, you need to upgrade your weapons also. I know out of, limited, experience, that an upgraded weapon with weak attributes has also very little effects.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by Tander:

Originally posted by Dr.Acula:

Runebears are the most difficult enemies in this game (only knights of the jar come even close with their extreme randomness). Runebears have a ton of health and hit like trucks while having really aggressive movesets and difficult to dodge. If it's possible to avoid then don't fight them.

Also upgrading weapons is important.

I feel like Revenants are much worse than Runebears, assuming you don't have a healing incantation.

Agreed, though I once thought revenants were the most broken enemy.

I was wrong, its gargoyles (blackblade kindred in particular)

[5chneemensch]

Originally posted by DragonSoundxSG:

Originally posted by 5chneemensch:

Has no relevance.

Are you TCs alt? I'd appreciate if you'd stop singling out my messages.

And it clearly has relevance as everyone needs to explain basics mechanics to him/her that one would learn if they played the game normally. So not only is TC cheating, he needs spoonfed how the game works instead of finding out him/herself.

One has nothing to do with the other.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Odal:

Originally posted by Mikebeez:

You have 195 hours in Elden Ring and only have 7 achievements? Are you sure your skill isn't relevant at all??? Maybe I'm missing something here.

My skill sucks, no doubt about that. I only beat Code Vein after hundreds of hours, and it won't be any different for Elden Ring. But I enjoyed grinding in Code Vein, and trying to beat the bosses. In Elden Ring, I feel no motivation in killing mobs for a few runes when I can get so much more from Lenne's rise. So, maybe I will never finish the game. Too bad. I am enjoying it while it lasts.

Well, if you are maxed out and with maxed out weapons (well, you are already for max char lvl anyway), why not just go to bosses and that is it?
Kill mobs once per run from site of grace to site of grace, just focus on bosses.
You may find something "a bit" relevant for your char and weapons lvl when you get near end game and to optional areas.

Originally posted by Odal:

I played Limgrave in Godmode, and killed everything worth something, including the giants on the way to activating Godrick's rune, and the bears in Mistwood. Also night bosses. I am sure I missed a few things. Anyway, I got a grand total of less than 120000 runes.
Killing the sleeping dragon and doing a few rounds in Lenne's rise would net me as much in less than an hour.
I enjoy Elder Ring, but I think their logic is flawed.

Btw, the giants at Limgrave I can 2shot with my lvl 60 char (not 60 stats, lvl 60 char, +50 total stats starting as wretch), all I need is 1 maxed Golden Halberd and I got it because I know how to get the somber stones easy and fast.

Dont try to just "finish the game", try to enjoy it, it will be worth.

Btw, at Raya Lucaria you can reset your stats over 10 times per playthrough, more than enough to try different builds until you see what fits your playstyle better, this without "save backup" uses.

The way you are playing is more like an easier version of NG+7, where you would have everything already and char with all stats cap reached but you are playing just at NG.
If that is the sort of experience you want with the game I would say "fine", but in my honest opinion, not really an experience worth.
You are basically losing like 90% of the gameplay experience (maybe more) because part of the gameplay experience is that sense of "what will happen next?? will I survive/deal properly next?? will I be able to overcome fast or will I suffer next? what do I need to do next??"
Your experience, like I said, is being that of a NG+7 but at NG, you are basicaly godlike until near endgame and even at endgame you will still very OP.

There is not really need for "grinding" at all as just killing mobs once and doing bosses you get to lvl 80~90 by final boss and level 100~120 (or 150~170) when you reach the optional boss at the very top of the world map, and you dont really need much more than that as 40 stat is enough to do that (leaving you with 4 stats at 40 with lvl 120, 5 stats at 40 with lvl 150, as starting as wretch you start wioth all stats at 10 and just need +30 levels per stat to reach a good stat level to survive and deal damage).
In case you focus on STR, you still need stamina, vigor and "maybe" FP, in case you dont need FP you can use these +30 points on something else (lets say, FAITH) or you can focus more on vigor and stamina (for extra survival and better armor without fatrolling or even while light rolling) or for extra damage (if you put all other +30 points on STR, but it soon become overkill to do so).

So you see, not only there is no need to grind at all as there is no need to have it at max level or max cap (soft cap start at 40).

Btw, at Raya Lucaria right after Limgrave you can reset your stats over 10 times per playthrough, without using "backup save"

[Odal]

I don't use the trainer for my normal gaming. This was just to help me illustrate my arguments. I am sure you do not need grinding. Good for you. That does not apply to me, and I think also not to many people. That is why what you are saying, even if in itself correct, is absolutely of no use to me.

[Sephylon]

Originally posted by Odal:

I don't use the trainer for my normal gaming. This was just to help me illustrate my arguments. I am sure you do not need grinding. Good for you. That does not apply to me, and I think also not to many people. That is why what you are saying, even if in itself correct, is absolutely of no use to me.

Your original post is not clear as to what you are asking about or intended to prove, thats why you get responses that aren't helpful to you. All people get from your op is that you used a trainer to get to max level and found out you can't kill things quickly. I don't know why you did it, what you wanted to prove, or what about the game you have a problem with other than it doesn't play the way you expected it to. I still don't know how you expected this game to play out, especially since you claim to somewhat understand weapon scaling.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Odal:

I don't use the trainer for my normal gaming. This was just to help me illustrate my arguments. I am sure you do not need grinding. Good for you. That does not apply to me, and I think also not to many people. That is why what you are saying, even if in itself correct, is absolutely of no use to me.

Point of my post:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

...
Btw, the giants at Limgrave I can 2shot with my lvl 60 char (not 60 stats, lvl 60 char, +50 total stats starting as wretch), all I need is 1 maxed Golden Halberd and I got it because I know how to get the somber stones easy and fast.
...
So you see, not only there is no need to grind at all as there is no need to have it at max level or max cap (soft cap start at 40).

Btw, at Raya Lucaria right after Limgrave you can reset your stats over 10 times per playthrough, without using "backup save"

At my lvl 60 I can 1shot almost everything and 2shot the giants there
(actually, with a lvl 40 and Golden Halberd lvl 3 or 4 I can 1shot most soldiers there)
So grinding is not needed for the area (even to lok strong, just go and do the areas "without grinding", probably you will end up higher than lvl 40 or 60 doing the entirety of Limgrave... my lvl 40 char went to Raya Lucaria, Caelid and Altus Plateau without the Grand Lift talisman, hence the level without doing everything at Limgrave.

Here:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

...
So (and again, I estimated, not calculated, the stats damage and am going by the raw stats on fextralife):
-a base golden halberd with max stats is a difference of some 200
...
-a +10 golden halberd + +10Commander's Standard with Claw Talisman and 99STR 99Holy is some (450+200+250)x1.15 = +1035 damage

I explained that weapon stats >>> char stats when it comes to damage output (also weapon effects can increase damage or add damage per second).

I made it also to ilustrate my arguments, that, despite the difference in skill, farming to practice (at least to practice enough that you get confident with your inputs and timing against a certain type of enemy or that you can kill that enemy at ease and without taking damage) is good and an experience that no death can take away from you, as you (as a player) develop yourself in game understandings and skills, and that is how I could improve at these games . . . at all games, repeat what I am not gud at until I get gud, it all starts with a gud mindset, the mindset is the true "git gud" people talk/joke about...

GIT GUD, it all start with the mindset
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On2gTMcAovs

Go with the right mindset and you may improve faster than you expected to a point where farming will not be needed, even for learning a new enemy.

[Odal]

Originally posted by Sephylon:

Originally posted by Odal:

I don't use the trainer for my normal gaming. This was just to help me illustrate my arguments. I am sure you do not need grinding. Good for you. That does not apply to me, and I think also not to many people. That is why what you are saying, even if in itself correct, is absolutely of no use to me.

Your original post is not clear as to what you are asking about or intended to prove, thats why you get responses that aren't helpful to you. All people get from your op is that you used a trainer to get to max level and found out you can't kill things quickly. I don't know why you did it, what you wanted to prove, or what about the game you have a problem with other than it doesn't play the way you expected it to. I still don't know how you expected this game to play out, especially since you claim to somewhat understand weapon scaling.

I never made such a claim. Far from it. As far as what I want to say, it may also be that the people who reacting to my posts are very dedicated to Elden Ring. I can understand and accept that. I do not like a particular aspect of the game, and that is the way kills are valued. I think it makes the game worse than it deserves to be. I find it a very cheap trick from the devs to boost the difficulty of the game. And the game does not need it. I personally would enjoy it more if kills were better valued . If I ever give up on this game, it won't be because of the difficulty of fighting the bosses. It is a challenge I rather enjoy even if I am not particularly good at it. It will be because killing is absolutely senseless in this game. Unless you enjoy fighting for no other reason than fighting itself. Most people, and I am certainly one of them, wants the feeling that what they are doing makes sense. Even in a game. It does not make sense to fight an enemy for even 1500 runes (and there are very few of them even in the end game) when a simple round of Lenne's rise gives you 2k. I keep repeating this argument because it lies at the heart of my objections.
People who have no problem with this will of course think that I am making a big thing out of nothing. I can't help that.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Odal:

Originally posted by Sephylon:

Your original post is not clear as to what you are asking about or intended to prove, thats why you get responses that aren't helpful to you. All people get from your op is that you used a trainer to get to max level and found out you can't kill things quickly. I don't know why you did it, what you wanted to prove, or what about the game you have a problem with other than it doesn't play the way you expected it to. I still don't know how you expected this game to play out, especially since you claim to somewhat understand weapon scaling.

I never made such a claim. Far from it. As far as what I want to say, it may also be that the people who reacting to my posts are very dedicated to Elden Ring. I can understand and accept that. I do not like a particular aspect of the game, and that is the way kills are valued. I think it makes the game worse than it deserves to be. I find it a very cheap trick from the devs to boost the difficulty of the game. And the game does not need it. I personally would enjoy it more if kills were better valued . If I ever give up on this game, it won't be because of the difficulty of fighting the bosses. It is a challenge I rather enjoy even if I am not particularly good at it. It will be because killing is absolutely senseless in this game. Unless you enjoy fighting for no other reason than fighting itself. Most people, and I am certainly one of them, wants the feeling that what they are doing makes sense. Even in a game. It does not make sense to fight an enemy for even 1500 runes (and there are very few of them even in the end game) when a simple round of Lenne's rise gives you 2k. I keep repeating this argument because it lies at the heart of my objections.
People who have no problem with this will of course think that I am making a big thing out of nothing. I can't help that.

Actually, there is a place where you can get 11K every 20s and at the same place, after you beat the game, you can get some 40K/60K every some 20s...
The farming for the farming is senseless and the enemies value go in terms of how "hard" it is to kill that enemy (meaning easier enemies value less).
"why easier enemies in midgame/endgame then??"
Because they are fodder enemies, these are there to either cripple your stats/resources or to lure you into a trap, into being confident and open yor guard/attention, or just to be in numbers and stagger/kill you, but each individual enemy of those is easy to kill therefore cheap in runes regardless of the area these are at.

Enemies placement sometims are strategic and sometimes are just "for the lore" of the location too, not "only" for the other reasons I mentioned (or any other reason devs planned) and... You can just decide to not kill these and move on (if you know where you are going, be it because you already "went there before"/"finished the game"/"died more ahead and just want to get your runes back and move on", ignoring those weaker enemies is fine if you can deal with these chasing you and that is also part of the intended experience too.

[medicinezombie]

You should check out the game wiki, watch some tutorial videos on youtube. Your lack of basic game knowledge is why you don't get any of this

Giving yourself infinite runes, and then being confused as to how valuable runes are, makes sense I guess lol

Players do, in fact, NEED to earn runes to play normally, "does not make sense to fight an enemy for 1500 runes" is only when you cheat lol, otherwise you fight enemies, duh

edit: lolol, YOU still need runes, if you don't have any weapons upgraded. YOU yourself have proven runes can have value at max level still.

Self own, nicely done

[Odal]

Originally posted by Odal:

Originally posted by Sephylon:

Your original post is not clear as to what you are asking about or intended to prove, thats why you get responses that aren't helpful to you. All people get from your op is that you used a trainer to get to max level and found out you can't kill things quickly. I don't know why you did it, what you wanted to prove, or what about the game you have a problem with other than it doesn't play the way you expected it to. I still don't know how you expected this game to play out, especially since you claim to somewhat understand weapon scaling.

I never made such a claim. Far from it. As far as what I want to say, it may also be that the people who reacting to my posts are very dedicated to Elden Ring. I can understand and accept that. I do not like a particular aspect of the game, and that is the way kills are valued. I think it makes the game worse than it deserves to be. I find it a very cheap trick from the devs to boost the difficulty of the game. And the game does not need it. I personally would enjoy it more if kills were better valued . If I ever give up on this game, it won't be because of the difficulty of fighting the bosses. It is a challenge I rather enjoy even if I am not particularly good at it. It will be because killing is absolutely senseless in this game. Unless you enjoy fighting for no other reason than fighting itself. Most people, and I am certainly one of them, wants the feeling that what they are doing makes sense. Even in a game. It does not make sense to fight an enemy for even 1500 runes (and there are very few of them even in the end game) when a simple round of Lenne's rise gives you 2k. I keep repeating this argument because it lies at the heart of my objections.
People who have no problem with this will of course think that I am making a big thing out of nothing. I can't help that.

edit: that is also exactly the reason why I stopped playing Nioh 2, even though the game is very attractive, even if the atmosphere and the graphics are rather somber. You get very difficult bosses, and mobs that are worth nothing but make your progression even more difficult. Not only you get too little rewards, you are also constantly taking the risk of losing your meager savings because of an insignificant mob.
The way to the boss was a test in dedication. I was not dedicated enough.

[Darkstorm]

Originally posted by Odal:

Originally posted by Sephylon:

Your original post is not clear as to what you are asking about or intended to prove, thats why you get responses that aren't helpful to you. All people get from your op is that you used a trainer to get to max level and found out you can't kill things quickly. I don't know why you did it, what you wanted to prove, or what about the game you have a problem with other than it doesn't play the way you expected it to. I still don't know how you expected this game to play out, especially since you claim to somewhat understand weapon scaling.

I never made such a claim. Far from it. As far as what I want to say, it may also be that the people who reacting to my posts are very dedicated to Elden Ring. I can understand and accept that. I do not like a particular aspect of the game, and that is the way kills are valued. I think it makes the game worse than it deserves to be. I find it a very cheap trick from the devs to boost the difficulty of the game. And the game does not need it. I personally would enjoy it more if kills were better valued . If I ever give up on this game, it won't be because of the difficulty of fighting the bosses. It is a challenge I rather enjoy even if I am not particularly good at it. It will be because killing is absolutely senseless in this game. Unless you enjoy fighting for no other reason than fighting itself. Most people, and I am certainly one of them, wants the feeling that what they are doing makes sense. Even in a game. It does not make sense to fight an enemy for even 1500 runes (and there are very few of them even in the end game) when a simple round of Lenne's rise gives you 2k. I keep repeating this argument because it lies at the heart of my objections.
People who have no problem with this will of course think that I am making a big thing out of nothing. I can't help that.

In Mohg's palace enemies pay 4k each(NG+)and a round over there will pay more that 50k. That means fighting any enemy that pays less makes no sense? That's what you mean? I think, people who have problem with how much they make out of some enemy kill are minority.

[Odal]

Originally posted by Darkstorm:

Originally posted by Odal:

I never made such a claim. Far from it. As far as what I want to say, it may also be that the people who reacting to my posts are very dedicated to Elden Ring. I can understand and accept that. I do not like a particular aspect of the game, and that is the way kills are valued. I think it makes the game worse than it deserves to be. I find it a very cheap trick from the devs to boost the difficulty of the game. And the game does not need it. I personally would enjoy it more if kills were better valued . If I ever give up on this game, it won't be because of the difficulty of fighting the bosses. It is a challenge I rather enjoy even if I am not particularly good at it. It will be because killing is absolutely senseless in this game. Unless you enjoy fighting for no other reason than fighting itself. Most people, and I am certainly one of them, wants the feeling that what they are doing makes sense. Even in a game. It does not make sense to fight an enemy for even 1500 runes (and there are very few of them even in the end game) when a simple round of Lenne's rise gives you 2k. I keep repeating this argument because it lies at the heart of my objections.
People who have no problem with this will of course think that I am making a big thing out of nothing. I can't help that.

In Mohg's palace enemies pay 4k each(NG+)and a round over there will pay more that 50k. That means fighting any enemy that pays less makes no sense? That's what you mean? I think, people who have problem with how much they make out of some enemy kill are minority.

I had reached the forbidden lands with different characters, but I had postponed its exploration until I had the feeling that I mastered reasonably enough the first areas. I have just started looking at the Forbidden lands. It is all new to me.

[MundM]

Oh my, another one, trying to outcheat his skill issue.
There's scaling on weapons. If your weapn has no or terrible scaling, your attributes don't... scale the damage up much.
A scientist you will not become.
I hope you get online banned for even talking about a trainer for a game with online elements.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by Mugen Majimq:

you dont get banned for discussing cheats on a game with pitiful multiplayer like this. But i mean i dont really see the difference between them using a trainer and farming birds for 20 hours besides the ammount of time wasted lol

Well you tried killing a roided up runebear without upgrading your weapon at all, so clearly something went wrong.

[MundM]

Originally posted by Mugen Majimq:

Originally posted by MundM:

Oh my, another one, trying to outcheat his skill issue.
There's scaling on weapons. If your weapn has no or terrible scaling, your attributes don't... scale the damage up much.
A scientist you will not become.
I hope you get online banned for even talking about a trainer for a game with online elements.

you dont get banned for discussing cheats on a game with pitiful multiplayer like this. But i mean i dont really see the difference between them using a trainer and farming birds for 20 hours besides the ammount of time wasted lol

Heard of a slippery slope? You think people in DS1 only used trainers to counter cheaters and never used it in another way? Getting to the point you install software just to cheat, makes you capable of ruining other people's experience.
I'm not gonna argure further with you why cheating is bad in a game with online elements, because there's nothing you can say that makes it a positive thing. At least the bird farmer put in the effort to deserve it. Someone with a trainer most likely just cheats his way around to make a twink, or suddenly increase his attributes in a pvp match. ♥♥♥♥ cheaters.