Am I missing the thing that makes this fun?

[Fractal]

I'm mostly new to souls-esque games and about 20 hours in on this as a mage, been exploring around the big lake. And I just don't get when I'm supposed to be having fun. The world looks cool but doesn't feel interesting to be in. I have no motivation to explore when every set of ruins looks identical and my reward for finding the secret room is, at best, a weapon I'll never use. So much content feels locked behind areas and fights you have no way to know exist, and can easily miss even if you look for them. All too often I find an area/dungeon that looks interesting to explore, to find it's locked behind keys I don't have and can't find because I'm looking for needles in haystacks. I feel like there are a trillion different systems that got thrown at me at the start and I'm left picking up the pieces. I can't help but feel like the design of this game, which should be "challenging and sometimes cruel" is actually "actively hostile to the player".

I'm trying to like this game. I really am. I've tried multiple approaches to try and like it. And every time I end up miserable, and not really sure how it's so massively popular, because from my perspective, it feels kinda...bad?

[Sonnenbank]

Well its an Action game.
An Action game where you fight monsters and bosses.

dont know what you expect ?
from a RPG perspective i would agree that its not a good game.

Its a very good Action game though

[Fractal]

Originally posted by Sonnenbank:

Well its an Action game.
An Action game where you fight monsters and bosses.

dont know what you expect ?
from a RPG perspective i would agree that its not a good game.

Its a very good Action game though

Might just be mage things, but I haven't been sold on the combat either. I feel like I stand just far away enough to shoot them with a projectile and rinse repeat 100x over.

[vamirez]

You need to want to get into the game. You need to be motivated to explore and clear all the locations, try out all the game systems, get into the combat, etc. It has to click for you.

If you get frustrated so easily and think like this even in the starter area, we can't help you.

[Sabaithal]

You're playing a mage, that's why its not very fun. "Stand back and play a third person shooter" works, its just not very fun for most people.

If you're going to play a mage have some close range spells of some sort, like Carain spells since they are all "sword" focused. Play aggressively, don't be afraid to die (its a minor setback),

[Fineous🔥]

Mages are more than fine. You should be playing the game experimenting, exploring, dying, beating bosses, discovering sorceries, talismans, weapons, craftables, secrets and a ot of more things.

I understand the need to make this thread to expose why you think you are not enjoying the game but sadly im not going to play it for you or even tell you how to play, that would be extremly wrong.

[Fractal]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

You're playing a mage, that's why its not very fun. "Stand back and play a third person shooter" works, its just not very fun for most people.

If you're going to play a mage have some close range spells of some sort, like Carain spells since they are all "sword" focused.

I found a sword spell and it does do decent damage, but it's never really been worth using because ranged is safer and usually more effective. I'm still not big on combat but it's definitely the part of the game I can see people liking. There's good stuff here just not great for me.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by interior explosion:

I found a sword spell and it does do decent damage, but it's never really been worth using because ranged is safer and usually more effective. I'm still not big on combat but it's definitely the part of the game I can see people liking. There's good stuff here just not great for me.

Well that is the tradeoff. Ranged spells are safer, whereas as melee spells are generally much more capable of doing damage.

Depending on the spell of course. And the boss. Some bosses will turn you inside out if you try and maintain long range.

[Koala 4peace]

Yes.

[Twisty]

Maybe I'm just wrong, but souls games tend to be focused toward melee and close range spells for the difficulty.
Sure you can play a max range mage build, but until you get to hyper aggressive bosses later, the difficulty won't be there.

As for the design, you're not too far off. Souls-likes are generally "you vs the world" and "figure it out on your own" which is great for some and the worst for others. If you're used to games telling you what to do, giving you multiple markers, and having clear dialogue and quest logs, it will not be fun.
You have to explore, take your time, look everywhere.

What I found fun was exploring the world, equipped with a Greatsword and Catch Flame, wondering around aimlessly until I either died or found a boss and continued.

[Rastrelly]

A game that comes in and just entertains you does not exist. You need to find your fun in a game. Some games are "yours" and easy to find fun in; some aren't. This is normal.

> have no motivation to explore when every set of ruins looks identical and my reward for finding the secret room is, at best, a weapon I'll never use.

Why won't you use it? While some weapons ARE locked behind the stats gate, most aren't. Finding interesting stuff is half the game.

> So much content feels locked behind areas and fights you have no way to know exist, and can easily miss even if you look for them.

...just like in most good RPGs? Keyword is -- GOOD?

> All too often I find an area/dungeon that looks interesting to explore, to find it's locked behind keys I don't have and can't find because I'm looking for needles in haystacks.

The keys are basically everywhere. Most traders have them, they lie around.

> I feel like there are a trillion different systems that got thrown at me at the start and I'm left picking up the pieces.

That's absolutely classic oldschool design. Most games were like this. Alas, we live in the times when 3/4 of most games is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tutorial.

> I can't help but feel like the design of this game, which should be "challenging and sometimes cruel" is actually "actively hostile to the player".

This game makes all it can to except directly handhold you.

> And every time I end up miserable, and not really sure how it's so massively popular, because from my perspective, it feels kinda...bad?

Your perspective is brutally skewed by modern approach to games. For many people this game design is either some form of return to the roots, or eye-opening to what games actually CAN be.

[rkmugen]

It's no surprise that magic, particularly ranged/homing magic trivializes combat, the majority of the time. Maybe try a build that doesn't have those luxuries. It's arguable that if you really struggle to learn something and work hard to earn it, you'll enjoy it more than if you are most accustomed to approaching situations by playing at a 'safe range'.

Well.... to be fair, as a melee fighter, I really wished they could've added more things for players who like to primarily use their fists and feet (to kick). I have this crazy idea for adding some Ashes of War, which are basically new special moves you can learn to improve unarmed fighting skills. Uppercuts, grab attacks, tackles (think Edge's 'spear' move, from WWE), roundhouse kicks, jumping kicks, spiked cleats, functional spurs (on boots/greaves).

I did try using a magic staff once.... but when I ran out of FP, i thought it was a missed opportunity -- they could've added more ashes of war for staffs, so you can use them effectively like every other bludgeoning/strike weapon in the game, and be able to automatically fall back to conventional ashes of war that they are able to use. (In very close quarters, I want to be able to impale enemies with the pointy edge of my magic staff, and crack their skulls with the other end of it.)

[Wormerine]

My advice would be: drop spells. I have always seen tham as easy mode/boring option. Not that you can't enjoy FromSoftware games using ranged spells, but if you find them boring than try something else - like melee combat. If you still want to play things safe, than pick weapon and shield - it is a good starting point to get feel for enemies attack patters while keeping yourself fairly safe.

I am not sure what do you mean about locked dungeons. I can't recall things not being accessible.

[Fractal]

Originally posted by Wormerine:

My advice would be: drop spells. I have always seen tham as easy mode/boring option. Not that you can't enjoy FromSoftware games using ranged spells, but if you find them boring than try something else - like melee combat. If you still want to play things safe, than pick weapon and shield - it is a good starting point to get feel for enemies attack patters while keeping yourself fairly safe.

I am not sure what do you mean about locked dungeons. I can't recall things not being accessible.

I forget the exact name, but something like moonstone keys? You need them to get past mist walls. I also was told by a friend about how to unlock the fancy clothes stuff (with the guy who used to be a tree) and even with direct instructions struggled to find the cave. It's anecdotal but it's the impression I've been getting.

I've been seeing other people talk about mage build being a problem, firstly I feel like I've committed stats at this point but also, why have this magic option in your game if it doesn't lead to good gameplay? Doesn't make me feel enthusiastic about the game tbh

[Yal]

Playing as a sorcerer is sadly a kinda dull playstyle, SO MANY of the spells are some variant of "fire a blue projectile in a straight line" while cleric builds get all the cool "transform into a dragon and bite people" stuff. I've done like 12 playthroughs in total and I've never figured out how to make a sorcery build fun to play.

The good news is, Liurnia has like half the cool sorcerer weapons/ashes in the game!

Some misc tips:
- The type of reward you get for a mini-dungeon is almost always based on the type: catacombs always has spirit summons, giant trees always has new Crystal Tears, wizard towers has Memory Stones or spells, churches has flask upgrades, and regular ruins... has whatever was left when they had assigned loot to the rest of the game. Avoid dungeons that has stuff you don't want.
- Ice damage is really good, there's almost nothing that's immune to the ailment and it both deals percentage-based damage that can do significant chunks of damage to tougher enemies AND debuffs all defenses so your other attacks can get more effective.
- There's a caravan in the northwest corner of Liurnia (near the Four Belfries area) with a magic sword that's supposedly pretty good, its special ability is a magic melee attack that can hit through walls.
- If you can make your way to Caria Manor (the dungeon on the coast), the small lake outside the dungeon has an invisible beetle that drops a really useful ice-based Ash of War. Plop that onto whatever is the largest stick you can swing around and you have a nice backup option for when you're low on FP.
- Clearing Caria Manor will both reward you with some cool magic equipment and get you access to a spell tutor. (Make sure to bring something that deals fire damage)
- The store in the Roundtable Hold sells a bunch of Stonesword Keys if you want to unlock some of those doors. (I recommend NOT unlocking the one in the tutorial cave because it's one of the most annoying dungeons in the game)

[Yal]

Originally posted by rkmugen:

(In very close quarters, I want to be able to impale enemies with the pointy edge of my magic staff, and crack their skulls with the other end of it.)

I've got good news for you:
- One of the Burial Watchdog boss fights rewards you with the Watchdog's Staff, which is a greathammer.
- One of the Stonedigger sorceries is a magic powerdrill attack and it's really powerful.

Still kinda sad catalysts have so bad stats, there's no point in even GIVING them a backup melee attack if they're gonna do less damage than your bare hands. And you'd think ashes like Eruption and Lightning Strike would be perfectly valid for a magic staff...