Something that doesn't make sense

[Sabaithal]

Lore/timeline discussion. Starting from furthest event, up to most recent:

- Maliketh defeats the Gloam Eyed Queen and in doing so obtains the rune of death.
- Ranni steals a fragment of the rune of death, using it to create the black knives.
- Maliketh seals the rune of death in himself as a result of a fragment being stolen from him.
- Night of the black knives happens, Godwyn killed.
- Marika shatters the elden ring.

How was the rune of death transferred between people BEFORE the ER was shattered??? Wasn't it part of the elden ring?

[Gnasty Gnorc]

Could be entirely wrong here, but there's only a couple "important" runes that make up the entire ring. Removing one part of it wouldn't necessarily destroy it.

[Nevict]

I thought that the rune of death was deliberately removed from the Elden Ring, and that the defeat of the Gloam-eyed Queen was so that the Greater Will could take its place as the ruling divinity of the Lands Between.

Did I misunderstood something?

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by Nevict:

I thought that the rune of death was deliberately removed from the Elden Ring, and that the defeat of the Gloam-eyed Queen was so that the Greater Will could take its place as the ruling divinity of the Lands Between.

Did I misunderstood something?

I know concretely that the Two-fingers were the ones that contracted the Gloam-Eyed Queen to defeat the other demi-gods. Why they wanted this, and how she got her hands on the rune of death in the first place I don't know.

[Fear2288]

Malekith probably had mama Morathi use some of her Chaos magic to help him out, but once Thor got involved I’m sure that messed everything up a bit.

[An Irate Walrus]

My understanding is that the cycle of immortality experienced in the Lands Between is down to the Rune of Death not being part of the Elden Ring.

The ER governs reality. Because death isn't included in the ring, nothing really dies--and it isn't included in the ring because Maliketh has it/Fia hasn't birthed it.

[CourtesyFlush09]

Where is It stated that Maliketh gets the rune after beating the GEQ specifically?

Marika simply takes the Rune of Death out of the Elden Ring (which presumably was given to her by the Greater Will or Elden Beast) and gives it to Maliketh to guard. I don't recall Maliketh and the GEQ fighting for it.

[CourtesyFlush09]

Originally posted by An Irate Walrus:

My understanding is that the cycle of immortality experienced in the Lands Between is down to the Rune of Death not being part of the Elden Ring.

The ER governs reality. Because death isn't included in the ring, nothing really dies--and it isn't included in the ring because Maliketh has it/Fia hasn't birthed it.

Yup, that's why Marika removed it from the ring. She wanted people who died to return to the roots of the Erdtree for rebirth instead of decomposing/rotting like they normally would.

I reckon that's why she's called "Marika the Eternal," too.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by CourtesyFlush90:

Where is It stated that Maliketh gets the rune after beating the GEQ specifically?

Its not stated directly. It is however stated that the Gloam-eyed-Queen possessed the rune of death, and was defeated by Maliketh, who now possesses the rune of death.

[Nevict]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Originally posted by Nevict:

I thought that the rune of death was deliberately removed from the Elden Ring, and that the defeat of the Gloam-eyed Queen was so that the Greater Will could take its place as the ruling divinity of the Lands Between.

Did I misunderstood something?

I know concretely that the Two-fingers were the ones that contracted the Gloam-Eyed Queen to defeat the other demi-gods. Why they wanted this, and how she got her hands on the rune of death in the first place I don't know.

The way the Gloam-Eyed Queen got in posession of the power of Destined Death is the same of how Malenia got the power of the Scarlet Rot: they were born with it, because they are Empyreans.

Empyreans have the potential to ascend to godhood, and are blessed with unique properties. For example, Malenia had the Scarlet Rot, Miquella had eternal childhood, the Gloam-Eyed Queen had the Destined Death (and was a threat to the Greater Will, so her power needed to be removed), Ranni... the power of the stars, probably, but I never understood.

[Nevict]

Originally posted by CourtesyFlush90:

Originally posted by An Irate Walrus:

My understanding is that the cycle of immortality experienced in the Lands Between is down to the Rune of Death not being part of the Elden Ring.

The ER governs reality. Because death isn't included in the ring, nothing really dies--and it isn't included in the ring because Maliketh has it/Fia hasn't birthed it.

Yup, that's why Marika removed it from the ring. She wanted people who died to return to the roots of the Erdtree for rebirth instead of decomposing/rotting like they normally would.

I reckon that's why she's called "Marika the Eternal," too.

However, the process was flawed, and "those who live in death", who refused to be buried under the roots of the erdtree and keep on living after their demise, started appearing.

The Golden Order despised this rebellion against its principles, and declared Those Who Live In Death heretics that needed to be purged.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by Nevict:

The way the Gloam-Eyed Queen got in posession of the power of Destined Death is the same of how Malenia got the power of the Scarlet Rot: they were born with it, because they are Empyreans.

Empyreans have the potential to ascend to godhood, and are blessed with unique properties. For example, Malenia had the Scarlet Rot, Miquella had eternal childhood, the Gloam-Eyed Queen had the Destined Death (and was a threat to the Greater Will, so her power needed to be removed), Ranni... the power of the stars, probably, but I never understood.

Okay, I CAN believe that, but still, what's your source that the GeQ was born with it? It wasn't a "Gods blessing" like the two siblings, it was a great rune we're talking. She was just born with a great rune?

Also I was under the impression Ranni had power over the moon specifically, not the stars. Or maybe that was Renalla? I'm not sure either.

[Nevict]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Originally posted by Nevict:

The way the Gloam-Eyed Queen got in posession of the power of Destined Death is the same of how Malenia got the power of the Scarlet Rot: they were born with it, because they are Empyreans.

Empyreans have the potential to ascend to godhood, and are blessed with unique properties. For example, Malenia had the Scarlet Rot, Miquella had eternal childhood, the Gloam-Eyed Queen had the Destined Death (and was a threat to the Greater Will, so her power needed to be removed), Ranni... the power of the stars, probably, but I never understood.

Okay, I CAN believe that, but still, what's your source that the GeQ was born with it? It wasn't a "Gods blessing" like the two siblings, it was a great rune we're talking. She was just born with a great rune?

Also I was under the impression Ranni had power over the moon specifically, not the stars. Or maybe that was Renalla? I'm not sure either.

According to the fandom wiki, the Destined Death was a power she got from the Two Fingers.

[CourtesyFlush09]

Originally posted by Nevict:

However, the process was flawed, and "those who live in death", who refused to be buried under the roots of the erdtree and keep on living after their demise, started appearing

Those Who Live in Death only started appearing soon after Godwyn was killed, not when Marika removed the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by Nevict:

According to the fandom wiki, the Destined Death was a power she got from the Two Fingers.

That doesn't necessarily mean it was a birth blessing. The two fingers are not a god, nor a deity like being, they are only servants of...either the greater will, or the golden order, I'm not entirely clear on that.

It could simply mean it was given to her by the Two-Fingers. Which would then open up the question "how did the Two-fingers get it?"

[Gnasty Gnorc]

I'm pretty sure lore just says that the Gloam Eyed Queen was tasked by the Two Fingers to end Merika's reign, and usher in a new age.

I don't think how she got the rune is really relevant, but it does she was defeated by Maliketh, who then sealed the rune of destined death within himself.