Stance break seems weak?

[Warscream]

It is a legit question, i created a new character, and i'm level 23, and i swear, i had to hit margit 10 times with fully charged strong attacks from my ultra greatsword for him to finally stagger. So... what is going on? I remember it being much better before. Did they nerff it to the ground, or is margit supposed to be almost impossible to stance break?

[Kobi Blade]

Is all down to your stats and gear, I can stagger all bosses with every hit using the Brick.

Hammers have a higher chance of stagger!

[Mills]

Originally posted by Kobi Blade:

Is all down to your stats and gear, I can stagger all bosses with every hit using the Brick.

Hammers have a higher chance of stagger!

Stats and gear don't matter at all (other than weapon type), poise damage is about the moves you use. A lvl 1 wretch with a +0 broadsword does 40 poise dmg with square off, a level 700 with a +25 broadsword using square off still does 40 poise dmg.

[nfinite.recursion]

Incantations, spells, and AoWs all have a set poise damage.

However, different gear does different poise damage. Typically, the bigger and slower weapons do more poise damage per attack, whether it's a basic R1, R2, L1, or charged R2. All attacks that you land will do at least some poise damage and reset the poise damage recovery timer. Knowing this, if you have time to land a single R1 because a jumping L1 is too risky, by all means do so to maintain the poise damage meter.

Better yet, a safer alternative is to use throwing knives to keep the poise damage meter from cooling down.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by nfinite.recursion:

Better yet, a safer alternative is to use throwing knives to keep the poise damage meter from cooling down.

Does that apply for stance as well?

[nfinite.recursion]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Originally posted by nfinite.recursion:

Better yet, a safer alternative is to use throwing knives to keep the poise damage meter from cooling down.

Does that apply for stance as well?

How do you mean?

EDIT: I think I see what you're referring to. In my case, I'm referring specifically to PvE. Break an enemy's poise and you've broken their stance and opened them up for a crit. The throwing knives will stop poise recovery of any enemy, so just toss one after a few seconds to stop that recovery.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by nfinite.recursion:

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Does that apply for stance as well?

How do you mean?

Does throwing daggers at something keep its stance from recharging?

[nfinite.recursion]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Originally posted by nfinite.recursion:

How do you mean?

Does throwing daggers at something keep its stance from recharging?

The throwing knives will stop poise recovery of any enemy, so just toss one after a few seconds to stop that recovery. This is best for enemies with long combos that just have you running away.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by nfinite.recursion:

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Does throwing daggers at something keep its stance from recharging?

The throwing knives will stop poise recovery of any enemy, so just toss one after a few seconds to stop that recovery.

Not asking about poise, I'm asking about stance. Two different things, closely associated though.

The OP is referring to stance and so am I.

[nfinite.recursion]

Well, I guess that's what I'm actually referring to.

Seems I'm overdue for coffee.

[Kobi Blade]

Originally posted by Mills:

Originally posted by Kobi Blade:

Is all down to your stats and gear, I can stagger all bosses with every hit using the Brick.

Hammers have a higher chance of stagger!

Stats and gear don't matter at all (other than weapon type), poise damage is about the moves you use. A lvl 1 wretch with a +0 broadsword does 40 poise dmg with square off, a level 700 with a +25 broadsword using square off still does 40 poise dmg.

"Stats and gear don't matter", resumes to prove stats and gear matter.

Stats: Poise values
Gear: Armor, (Specific) Talismans, (Specific) Ashes of War, Weapons all affect poise (with Hammers having highest poise damage)

If you going to try and discredit someone, you don't do it by proving their point further.

More on poise here, https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Poise

[Clail]

Originally posted by Koala 4peace:

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

His stance does regen, so you do need to keep up the pressure.

Also I've found that, while charged heavies are effective for breaking stance, certain weapon arts are even better. For colossal swords, namely anything with "(stomp) <name of attack>"

Now the actual crit attack itself is a different story. Its honestly much weaker than it needs to be against many enemies and bosses. It really does need to do much more damage to be worth using "Stance breaking" as a main strategy, because even with the Misceriode it barely does anything to most enemies.

I find that a lot of time is better to just do a chain against a stunned boss than a critical.

I like using magic or AoW's during stance breaks personally. Perfect time for a fully charged Carian Grandeur, or for magic users some thing that hits super hard but has a long windup animation. These will usually do more total damage, especially if you aren't using a weapon that doesn't have a higher than normal crit modifier

[Yal]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Originally posted by nfinite.recursion:

How do you mean?

Does throwing daggers at something keep its stance from recharging?

I'd recommend looking up Illusory Wall's video on Elden Ring poise because the answer to this question is a bit of a mess - most regular throwing daggers deal a tiny bit of poise damage (which resets the recovery timer) but it varies wildly between the other attack consumables. Volcano Pots don't deal any poise damage, for instance.

(I'm a big fan of having throwing daggers in a pouch slot for easy use, I've legitimately killed like a dozen bosses by panic-throwing daggers when they had a sliver of health left and was charging up an attack and I couldn't risk getting close. Crystal Daggers are really good if you're not using your FP for anything else but the regular ones Kale sells are A-OK too)

[königplatzen]

That video sums everything up. Quite technical, though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV5xzczU1No

Please be aware, that some weapons/ash of war have changed. i.e. Flame of Redmane

[Sabaithal]

That was actually informative, thanks for posting it. Though I really wish people would stop confusing stance with poise, it creates a lot of misunderstandings.

[Mad Marduk]

I use Lion's Claw on Gut's Greatsword with Stonebarb Cracked Tear in my physick and I get constant stance breaks. The criticals do feel underwhelming, but I just use it as a chance to let my stamina refill and then return the boss to a knocked down position which is good if you need a chug or something. They don't take any additional poise/stance damage until they stand back up though.