Lore of "normal" enemies and creatures of the lands between?

[Space Cowboy]

Alright, I'm watching lore videos left and right but what I couldn't figure out or could even find theories about what happened to the regular people of the lands between. You only hear lore about the boss enemies, but what is arguably just as interesting is how the shattering affected "normal" enemies, like the foodsoldiers you encounter right from the start. I understand that Queen Marika basically introduced immortality into the world but how did it happen, that most inhabitants of the world basically became mindless husks and that everything is in decay? How did the shattering lead to that exactly? And what are the normal mob creatures which you come across, anyway? Would love to know if somebody made a lore video about that.

[fauxpas]

Originally posted by Space Cowboy:

Originally posted by fauxpas:

Thats just it though, he doesn't do that, that is just YouTubers making a living from the fact he is a "big picture" designer who quite frankly doesn't worry about contradictions or holes in his lore.

Nah, strongly disagree. That would contradict the massive amount of environmental storytelling. You just have to look around to see that stuff is made on purpose. Oftentimes the purpose is left to be discovered by the player, though.

That's fine, although I'd argue that the environmental storytelling is painting the big picture and in the case of Elden Ring at least (can't speak for Dark Souls since I haven't played them) the lore is pretty shallow and incomplete.

[Space Cowboy]

Originally posted by fauxpas:

Originally posted by Space Cowboy:

Nah, strongly disagree. That would contradict the massive amount of environmental storytelling. You just have to look around to see that stuff is made on purpose. Oftentimes the purpose is left to be discovered by the player, though.

That's fine, although I'd argue that the environmental storytelling is painting the big picture and in the case of Elden Ring at least (can't speak for Dark Souls since I haven't played them) the lore is pretty shallow and incomplete.

Dark Souls does the same thing, basically. You have to piece information together through the dialogue, item descriptions and even wall frescoes or paintings. And, yes, there are some holes left on purpose to leave some room for player interpretation - but it usually leaves enough for an educated guess. And remember - the backstory and the lore has been originally written by George R. R. Martin, although we don't know what is his original work and what was rewritten by the devs if anything.

[Space Cowboy]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Originally posted by Space Cowboy:

Yeah, it's also his fetish to put some deeper meaning behind basically everything in the game so I highly doubt that it's just a mindless design choice.

It was a joke, no need to go off the rails.

If I had to guess its probably since there is a distinction between "Death" and "Destined death" (the latter being the classical definition as far as I can tell). The state of any given humanoid or indeed creature probably reflects the nature of that creature as its exposed to its surrounding environment.

And since that probably made no sense: Plenty of healthy looking soldiers in Limgrave, right? Nice area, lots of green, rather peaceful as long as you don't approach the lake.

Mohgwyn palace on the other hand is dark, its menacing, there's an emphasis on blood (And probably blood sacrifice) and consequently lots of the followers and creatures there look...quite less presentable in comparison.

They're both "Dead" I suppose using the ingame definition of the word, but one group is clearly doing a better job at maintaining a healthy standard (likely reflective of the health of the mind, represented as the body in this case).

The limgrave soldiers don't look healthy at all - if you look closely, they're also zombified. And if you look real close, their armor has seen better times as well.
My assumption, thinking about it is, that during the Golden Order "normal" people were connected to and fully embraced by the Erdtree and the Elden Ring and thus the Greater Will. And not just their cycle of life but possibly also their minds were connected and fully dependent on it. However, the Tarnished also have their regeneration cycle connected to the Erdtree but they were rejected by it and the Greater Will nontheless for an unknown reason. That reason might be that their minds were not fully connected/dependent to the Erdtree/Elden Ring/Greater Will (and remember, the Greater Will represents order, so that would make sense) and that they were rejected for that reason. Incidently only the Tarnished and the Demigods (which are beings touched by the spirit of the Old Erdtree before it was seized by the Greater Will) seem to be in full possession of their own will. So, when the Elden Ring was shattered, the mind of normal people was lost because it was connected to the Erdtree/Elden Ring/The Greater Will, while the will of the Tarnished and the Demigods who were recected, remained intact. The regenerative aspect of the life cycle still seems to be intact for everyone, though - but maybe also with some degenerative effects for normal people.

[Water Ｖａｐｏｒ Merchant]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Originally posted by Space Cowboy:

Yeah, it's also his fetish to put some deeper meaning behind basically everything in the game so I highly doubt that it's just a mindless design choice.

It was a joke, no need to go off the rails.

If I had to guess its probably since there is a distinction between "Death" and "Destined death" (the latter being the classical definition as far as I can tell). The state of any given humanoid or indeed creature probably reflects the nature of that creature as its exposed to its surrounding environment.

And since that probably made no sense: Plenty of healthy looking soldiers in Limgrave, right? Nice area, lots of green, rather peaceful as long as you don't approach the lake.

Mohgwyn palace on the other hand is dark, its menacing, there's an emphasis on blood (And probably blood sacrifice) and consequently lots of the followers and creatures there look...quite less presentable in comparison.

They're both "Dead" I suppose using the ingame definition of the word, but one group is clearly doing a better job at maintaining a healthy standard (likely reflective of the health of the mind, represented as the body in this case).

I don't think this theory really holds together when you look at most of the wildlife in the game. Lots of animals look nice and healthy even despite their surroundings. There are several herds of sheep of that can be found in Cailid that look right as rain, for example. Or take the dogs you can find throughout Limgrave. They're all rotted and desiccated, and usually in even worse shape than the human enemies that accompany them, even those in a relatively green place like Limgrave.
This is all to say that I don't think the state of decay of something has actually anything to do with where they're at, besides Scarlet Rot infection. Although even those sheep seem to have avoided any corrupting influence from the Scarlet Rot, so who's to say.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by Water Ｖａｐｏｒ Merchant:

I don't think this theory really holds together when you look at most of the wildlife in the game. Lots of animals look nice and healthy even despite their surroundings. There are several herds of sheep of that can be found in Cailid that look right as rain, for example. Or take the dogs you can find throughout Limgrave. They're all rotted and desiccated, and usually in even worse shape than the human enemies that accompany them, even those in a relatively green place like Limgrave.
This is all to say that I don't think the state of decay of something has actually anything to do with where they're at, besides Scarlet Rot infection. Although even those sheep seem to have avoided any corrupting influence from the Scarlet Rot, so who's to say.

I didn't mean it so much as the literal environmental exposure so much as the people within. The environments in this game are, more or less, affected by those who dwell within.

For example, there's not literal swamps of just pure blood in Mohgwyn, that can't happen no matter how dedicated you are at mass ritual bloodletting. That's just an enviornmental reflection of those who reside there.

And I wouldn't expect animals cared for by humans in different capacities to be identical either. I mean you see one sheep you see them all, they're either alive or dead. But dogs are usually raised by humans, so even after they go feral they still reflect the will of their masters. You'll notice you never find any decayed wolves anywhere in the game because they seldomly ally with humanoids, and its very much cooperation in their case, not "taming" (you can't really tame a wolf).

[Space Cowboy]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Originally posted by Water Ｖａｐｏｒ Merchant:

I don't think this theory really holds together when you look at most of the wildlife in the game. Lots of animals look nice and healthy even despite their surroundings. There are several herds of sheep of that can be found in Cailid that look right as rain, for example. Or take the dogs you can find throughout Limgrave. They're all rotted and desiccated, and usually in even worse shape than the human enemies that accompany them, even those in a relatively green place like Limgrave.
This is all to say that I don't think the state of decay of something has actually anything to do with where they're at, besides Scarlet Rot infection. Although even those sheep seem to have avoided any corrupting influence from the Scarlet Rot, so who's to say.

I didn't mean it so much as the literal environmental exposure so much as the people within. The environments in this game are, more or less, affected by those who dwell within.

For example, there's not literal swamps of just pure blood in Mohgwyn, that can't happen no matter how dedicated you are at mass ritual bloodletting. That's just an enviornmental reflection of those who reside there.

And I wouldn't expect animals cared for by humans in different capacities to be identical either. I mean you see one sheep you see them all, they're either alive or dead. But dogs are usually raised by humans, so even after they go feral they still reflect the will of their masters. You'll notice you never find any decayed wolves anywhere in the game because they seldomly ally with humanoids, and its very much cooperation in their case, not "taming" (you can't really tame a wolf).

Well, what might contradict my theory is the note about Revenants sold by a merchant "The crawling royal revenants and their followers are all cursed. Healing powers will harm rather than mend."
So, it might just be something that happened during the war.

[Space Cowboy]

Ah, here we go. That should explain it.
https://gamerant.com/elden-ring-those-who-live-in-death-lore-story-explained/

[Space Cowboy]

Even better, but careful, it contains an ending spoiler:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4fNhiMBA5A