Sleep and Madness need to be nerfed, removed, or etc.

[Tyler McRae]

I'm mostly mentioning the PvP side of it. Neither are balanced. The fact that you can inflict them -during- I-frames is just ridiculous. It basically means the person doing it gets a free hit even if you roll their attacks correctly. The only way I can think to balance them is to make the 'stun' not proc if you get the status while rolling. The frequency of players early-game that use them, on top of frostbite/scarlet rot users in Limgrave, is just... not fun. It makes PvP feel not worth doing until later levels, which has it's own problems (every build is either 1-shot or trash, etc).

[jinath715]

Publicado originalmente por Oreo Boy:

maybe unequip your soreseals and level vigor

You say this in every post.
I wonder if you are just a troll ??

[Star Taker ✨]

Publicado originalmente por jinath715:

Publicado originalmente por Oreo Boy:

maybe unequip your soreseals and level vigor

You say this in every post.
I wonder if you are just a troll ??

you know im right

[Holografix]

Publicado originalmente por DayLight1943:

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

Tedium is not a reason to change an item or spell. A sleep sword swing spreading sleep gas makes sense as it is a magical sword. working as intended.

tedium is not why status proc on rolls needs to be removed, it needs to be removed because it punishes skill and rewards spam. if my rolls are timed properly, and i roll on reaction to attacks, my skill needs to be rewarded by not taking damage. if i am using a status weapon and miss an attack from neutral or a rollcatch, i should not be rewarded with status buildup for mistiming my attack or being to easily readable. lots of things about dodge rolls dont make sense - you can dodge straight thru a laser beam or pillar of fire. its not really reasonable to say "oh you cant dodge sleep mist because its mist" in a game where you can roll dodge thru giant waves of energy or fire.

Does Fromsoftware make games where players are rewarded for doing things? Is there an achievement for dodge rolling properly? I don't think so.

You may have dodged the hit, but as an assassin you did not dodge my poison. I applied it stealthily, during your roll, and that is all the explanation required to understand why you can't roll through status procs.

[Holografix]

Publicado originalmente por Omastar:

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

is sleep the new "bleed is too OP" meme?

Sleep isn't the top offender, bleed itself isn't even the most broken thing imo (mostly seppuku that's the issue with bleed), just because it's not the most broken thing, doesn't mean it couldn't use a change, have you fought against dual trina swords? how much PvP time do you have?

I have a decent amount of PvP time, I've done 4 playthroughs so far. I use Taunter's Tongue frequently. 530+ hours ingame.

if i die in PvP, i don't suddenly rush to the forums and post about nerfing weapons. I don't take dying in PVP that seriously.

[SadPlatty©]

People wanting Sleep nerfed and Madness nerfed a second time...
Like I didn't call this 20 miles away - pretty much anything that causes a player to not be in-control for even a fraction of a second must be OP.

And like honestly - people just want it nerfed so they can panic roll infinitely. My question - why do you roll around in the sleep mist then? 3 whole sources in the game and they are "OP" lol

[Ulmace]

Publicado originalmente por SadPlatty©:

People wanting Sleep nerfed and Madness nerfed a second time...
Like I didn't call this 20 miles away - pretty much anything that causes a player to not be in-control for even a fraction of a second must be OP.

And like honestly - people just want it nerfed so they can panic roll infinitely. My question - why do you roll around in the sleep mist then? 3 whole sources in the game and they are "OP" lol

nerf paper says rock

[SadPlatty©]

Publicado originalmente por Ulmace:

Publicado originalmente por SadPlatty©:

People wanting Sleep nerfed and Madness nerfed a second time...
Like I didn't call this 20 miles away - pretty much anything that causes a player to not be in-control for even a fraction of a second must be OP.

And like honestly - people just want it nerfed so they can panic roll infinitely. My question - why do you roll around in the sleep mist then? 3 whole sources in the game and they are "OP" lol

nerf paper says rock

Scissors thinks paper is fine, but that rock is looking pretty stacked...

[DayLight1943]

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

You may have dodged the hit, but as an assassin you did not dodge my poison. I applied it stealthily, during your roll,

so then how do i avoid your poison?

[SpeaksTooFast]

Publicado originalmente por Sabaithal:

Also the fact that there are numerous humanoid enemies, and rats affected by madness proves that apparently tarnished are not the only ones affected by it.

Valid point, it would make sense if creatures already affected by madness were immune but the normal versions could easily be susceptible. I have not really tried it much but don't see how making it affect enemies that can bleed would unbalance anything.

[Percent]

List of things that are "meta:"
-Bleed
-Frost
-Moonveil
-Rivers of Blood
-Madness
-Bloodhound Step
-Shields
-Spears
-Spells
-Thrust damage
-Wearing armor
-Playing Co-op (Even though without it, there would be no such thing as Pvp)
-Optimized builds (You guys did this to yourselves with twinking)
-Parrying
-Incantations
-Powerstancing
-Sleep

[Ulmace]

Publicado originalmente por DayLight1943:

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

You may have dodged the hit, but as an assassin you did not dodge my poison. I applied it stealthily, during your roll,

so then how do i avoid your poison?

dont get hit.

[Sabaithal]

Publicado originalmente por DayLight1943:

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

You may have dodged the hit, but as an assassin you did not dodge my poison. I applied it stealthily, during your roll,

so then how do i avoid your poison?

Git gud

sarcasm

[Omastar]

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

Publicado originalmente por Omastar:

Sleep isn't the top offender, bleed itself isn't even the most broken thing imo (mostly seppuku that's the issue with bleed), just because it's not the most broken thing, doesn't mean it couldn't use a change, have you fought against dual trina swords? how much PvP time do you have?

I have a decent amount of PvP time, I've done 4 playthroughs so far. I use Taunter's Tongue frequently. 530+ hours ingame.

if i die in PvP, i don't suddenly rush to the forums and post about nerfing weapons. I don't take dying in PVP that seriously.

And you think I rush to the forums every time I die? I don't get upset with losing much myself, that doesn't mean the game doesn't have issues and broken setups, and I've only run into dual sleep swords myself once, and I still ended up winning, still haven't run into dual vykes, but used them plenty.

These status setups are way too easy to use, with little to no trade-off (vykes especially).

The double trina swords on low latency aren't that bad, you'd be right about that, but on medium to high lat they're extremely oppressive, and vykes are just way too strong - if I proc madness my opponent dies to a jumping L1.

[Holografix]

Publicado originalmente por Omastar:

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

I have a decent amount of PvP time, I've done 4 playthroughs so far. I use Taunter's Tongue frequently. 530+ hours ingame.

if i die in PvP, i don't suddenly rush to the forums and post about nerfing weapons. I don't take dying in PVP that seriously.

And you think I rush to the forums every time I die? I don't get upset with losing much myself, that doesn't mean the game doesn't have issues and broken setups, and I've only run into dual sleep swords myself once, and I still ended up winning, still haven't run into dual vykes, but used them plenty.

These status setups are way too easy to use, with little to no trade-off (vykes especially).

The double trina swords on low latency aren't that bad, you'd be right about that, but on medium to high lat they're extremely oppressive, and vykes are just way too strong - if I proc madness my opponent dies to a jumping L1.

then the issue revolves around latency more so than choice of weapon.

Given p2p connectivity and with hundreds of possible personal ISP/wifi/modem/router/ configs, lamenting about latency is pointless.

[Omastar]

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

Publicado originalmente por Omastar:

And you think I rush to the forums every time I die? I don't get upset with losing much myself, that doesn't mean the game doesn't have issues and broken setups, and I've only run into dual sleep swords myself once, and I still ended up winning, still haven't run into dual vykes, but used them plenty.

These status setups are way too easy to use, with little to no trade-off (vykes especially).

The double trina swords on low latency aren't that bad, you'd be right about that, but on medium to high lat they're extremely oppressive, and vykes are just way too strong - if I proc madness my opponent dies to a jumping L1.

then the issue revolves around latency more so than choice of weapon.

Given p2p connectivity and with hundreds of possible personal ISP/wifi/modem/router/ configs, lamenting about latency is pointless.

With trinas it's a combination of it with latency yeah, still very strong but definitely manageable, vykes is absurdly strong regardless though.