Lore-wise, who is the most evil character ?

[Timo.g]

Personally, I hesitate between Rykard and Mohg

[Tregarde]

I'm not sure if I would call him the most evil, but going to throw a name into the mix who I believe is at least a contender:

Sir Gideon Ofnir.

Sure, he seems okay at first, and is an important source of information. But let us consider his actions...
* He gathers as much information as possible so he may become Elden Lord. While information in and of itself is neither good nor evil, it's that he uses ruthless tactics and how he uses information.
* He has a network of spies and enforcers (not that we see them in game, but they exist)
* He had an Albinauric village slaughtered. AN ENTIRE VILLAGE!
* He had Lobo killed, and left Latenna there to suffer.
* He shows no regret or remorse when the girl he raised as a daughter loses faith him. He simply says she is of no use to him anymore.
* When Ensha attacks you, he says the assassin 'got ahead of himself' - clearly implying that he planned to have you killed sooner or later anyway!
* Despite all his ambitions for a new Elden Lord, he stands in your way as an end game boss,

Sir Gideon was ruthless. He didn't care about lives, as long as he got what he wanted. He planned to kill you to get the Medallion. He put on a nice face, but in the end people were just tools to him.

[John Titor]

Messaggio originale di Tregarde:

...He planned to kill you to get the Medallion...

I don't think so.

* When Ensha attacks you, he says the assassin 'got ahead of himself' - clearly implying that he planned to have you killed sooner or later anyway!

Yeah, after you killed all the demigods and did all the work. You know, like what happens in the game.

But yeah, he's a bit of a bastard.

[Illaoi Bot]

Messaggio originale di Tregarde:

I'm not sure if I would call him the most evil, but going to throw a name into the mix who I believe is at least a contender:

Sir Gideon Ofnir.

Sure, he seems okay at first, and is an important source of information. But let us consider his actions...
* He gathers as much information as possible so he may become Elden Lord. While information in and of itself is neither good nor evil, it's that he uses ruthless tactics and how he uses information.
* He has a network of spies and enforcers (not that we see them in game, but they exist)
* He had an Albinauric village slaughtered. AN ENTIRE VILLAGE!
* He had Lobo killed, and left Latenna there to suffer.
* He shows no regret or remorse when the girl he raised as a daughter loses faith him. He simply says she is of no use to him anymore.
* When Ensha attacks you, he says the assassin 'got ahead of himself' - clearly implying that he planned to have you killed sooner or later anyway!
* Despite all his ambitions for a new Elden Lord, he stands in your way as an end game boss,

Sir Gideon was ruthless. He didn't care about lives, as long as he got what he wanted. He planned to kill you to get the Medallion. He put on a nice face, but in the end people were just tools to him.

that doesnt make him evil that makes him cunning , he lets other people do the hard work, in what world is that evil ?

it is an ahole move for you but for the world(the lands between)? nope

dungeater is dangerous and disgusting for everyone and anything

[Sean Maxhell]

Being evil is something other than pursuing a selfish or low-moral purpose.
Shabriri is not evil, his aim is revenge.
Mogh is not evil, he wants his dynasty to prevail.
The great will is despotic and he wants to keep his dominion at any cost, but it is not evil.
Rickard as Mogh wants his family to prevail, with brutal methods, but he is not evil.

The only truly evil character to be out of his mind is the dung eater, who wants to rip everyone's souls out of their asses and stick it in his own.

All the others have only selfish purposes which they carry out by any means.

[causality]

People saying Dung Eater is evil don't understand the implications of what he is trying to achieve.

[vamirez]

Messaggio originale di Sean Maxhell:

Being evil is something other than pursuing a selfish or low-moral purpose.
Shabriri is not evil, his aim is revenge.
Mogh is not evil, he wants his dynasty to prevail.
The great will is despotic and he wants to keep his dominion at any cost, but it is not evil.
Rickard as Mogh wants his family to prevail, with brutal methods, but he is not evil.

The only truly evil character to be out of his mind is the dung eater, who wants to rip everyone's souls out of their asses and stick it in his own.

All the others have only selfish purposes which they carry out by any means.

It doesn't matter as much what these guys want to do. Their actual actions are what matter. All of these are clearly on the evil spectrum.

[Kain]

Messaggio originale di casuality:

People saying Dung Eater is evil don't understand the implications of what he is trying to achieve.

We do, and we still think he is evil.

[Orion Invictus]

Messaggio originale di Sean Maxhell:

Being evil is something other than pursuing a selfish or low-moral purpose.
Shabriri is not evil, his aim is revenge.
Mogh is not evil, he wants his dynasty to prevail.
The great will is despotic and he wants to keep his dominion at any cost, but it is not evil.
Rickard as Mogh wants his family to prevail, with brutal methods, but he is not evil.

The only truly evil character to be out of his mind is the dung eater, who wants to rip everyone's souls out of their asses and stick it in his own.

All the others have only selfish purposes which they carry out by any means.

Revenge is the definition of selfishness. It serves you and you alone.

Mohg wants HIS dynasty to prevail, no matter what happens to anyone else. Again, selfishness.

Despots are selfish by definition. They wield absolute power for their own benefit.

Rykard wants to outlast everything. He only cares about himself. Selfish.

[Orion Invictus]

Messaggio originale di casuality:

People saying Dung Eater is evil don't understand the implications of what he is trying to achieve.

No, we do. "If everyone is cursed, no one will be."

The problem with that is that everyone is still cursed. Just because it'd become the default doesn't make it better. He literally wants to increase everyone's suffering just so everyone suffers equally, rather than help those who are suffering.

His "logic" is like if instead of creating the polio vaccine, Salk gave everyone on Earth polio. It's nonsensical.

[Sabaithal]

Messaggio originale di Orion Invictus:

Messaggio originale di casuality:

People saying Dung Eater is evil don't understand the implications of what he is trying to achieve.

No, we do. "If everyone is cursed, no one will be."

The problem with that is that everyone is still cursed. Just because it'd become the default doesn't make it better. He literally wants to increase everyone's suffering just so everyone suffers equally, rather than help those who are suffering.

His "logic" is like if instead of creating the polio vaccine, Salk gave everyone on Earth polio. It's nonsensical.

This pretty much. Lowering everyone into a drainage ditch as far as standards goes is not an improvement.

If you want to improve things, the sensible approach is to ignore the ones on high as long as they aren't actively making things worse, and instead find the ones at the bottom and try and raise the bottom level up a bit.

[❛❛Vénttea❜❜]

Messaggio originale di Orion Invictus:

Messaggio originale di Sean Maxhell:

Being evil is something other than pursuing a selfish or low-moral purpose.
Shabriri is not evil, his aim is revenge.
Mogh is not evil, he wants his dynasty to prevail.
The great will is despotic and he wants to keep his dominion at any cost, but it is not evil.
Rickard as Mogh wants his family to prevail, with brutal methods, but he is not evil.

The only truly evil character to be out of his mind is the dung eater, who wants to rip everyone's souls out of their asses and stick it in his own.

All the others have only selfish purposes which they carry out by any means.

Revenge is the definition of selfishness. It serves you and you alone.

Mohg wants HIS dynasty to prevail, no matter what happens to anyone else. Again, selfishness.

Despots are selfish by definition. They wield absolute power for their own benefit.

Rykard wants to outlast everything. He only cares about himself. Selfish.

Judging by your definition. These characters are all neutral and Dung Eater is purely evil.
If we were to go by DnD alignments, the Outer Will being Lawful Evil and Dung Eater being Chaotic Evil.

Shabriri however is an odd case, although I think he is Chaotic Evil since he just wants the world to burn and less about revenge and Rykard and Mogh are Neutral Evil, although Rykard is borderline Chaotic. But yes, in terms with Pure evil it will have to be Dung Eater.

[causality]

Messaggio originale di Sabaithal:

Messaggio originale di Orion Invictus:

No, we do. "If everyone is cursed, no one will be."

The problem with that is that everyone is still cursed. Just because it'd become the default doesn't make it better. He literally wants to increase everyone's suffering just so everyone suffers equally, rather than help those who are suffering.

His "logic" is like if instead of creating the polio vaccine, Salk gave everyone on Earth polio. It's nonsensical.

This pretty much. Lowering everyone into a drainage ditch as far as standards goes is not an improvement.

If you want to improve things, the sensible approach is to ignore the ones on high as long as they aren't actively making things worse, and instead find the ones at the bottom and try and raise the bottom level up a bit.

Yes, because a parasitic eldritch monstrosity from space feasting on your soul and contorting the original laws of the land is fine. From the in game item description, it heavily implies that he has the heart of an Omen. By preventing influence from the Greater Will, he's returning life back to a primordial state when being an Omen was a sign of divinity and connection to the Crucible (pre corrupted Erdtree), a connection which prevents them from being controlled by the Golden Order or Greater Will.

"If Order is defiled entirely, defilement is defilement no more, and for every curse, a cursed blessing."

The Golden Order is the equivalent of someone forcibly entering your home, saying how you live is wrong and subjugating your entire family to live against their own beliefs.

[Sabaithal]

Messaggio originale di casuality:

Messaggio originale di Sabaithal:

This pretty much. Lowering everyone into a drainage ditch as far as standards goes is not an improvement.

If you want to improve things, the sensible approach is to ignore the ones on high as long as they aren't actively making things worse, and instead find the ones at the bottom and try and raise the bottom level up a bit.

Yes, because a parasitic eldritch monstrosity from space feasting on your soul and contorting the original laws of the land is fine. From the in game item description, it heavily implies that he has the heart of an Omen. By preventing influence from the Greater Will, he's returning life back to a primordial state when being an Omen was a sign of divinity and connection to the Crucible (pre corrupted Erdtree), a connection which prevents them from being controlled by the Golden Order or Greater Will.

"If Order is defiled entirely, defilement is defilement no more, and for every curse, a cursed blessing."

The Golden Order is the equivalent of someone forcibly entering your home, saying how you live is wrong and subjugating your entire family to live against their own beliefs. :cuphead:

Okay? I never endorsed the Golden Order or the greater will. My post was about the fell curse...

[SWORDLION]

Rick, Soldier of God.

[Sean Maxhell]

Messaggio originale di ❛❛Liechée❜❜:

Messaggio originale di Orion Invictus:

Revenge is the definition of selfishness. It serves you and you alone.

Mohg wants HIS dynasty to prevail, no matter what happens to anyone else. Again, selfishness.

Despots are selfish by definition. They wield absolute power for their own benefit.

Rykard wants to outlast everything. He only cares about himself. Selfish.

Judging by your definition. These characters are all neutral and Dung Eater is purely evil.
If we were to go by DnD alignments, the Outer Will being Lawful Evil and Dung Eater being Chaotic Evil.

Shabriri however is an odd case, although I think he is Chaotic Evil since he just wants the world to burn and less about revenge and Rykard and Mogh are Neutral Evil, although Rykard is borderline Chaotic. But yes, in terms with Pure evil it will have to be Dung Eater.

If we want to talk about D&D then you are confusing alignment with perspective.
If there were two kingdoms and two kings at war with each other, would either of them necessarily have an evil alignment? Or are they simply pursuing their own purposes and the welfare of their people?
The means by which an outcome is attempted may affect actual alignment, but in a world where everyone is a monster, can it really be said that being brutally lethal is synonymous with evil alignment?

The dung eater is clearly chaotic evil.

Many of the demigods we face cannot actually be considered good. But not everyone is among the wicked in my opinion.