Prequel or Sequel to Dark Souls Trilogy

[Achillies425]

Did anybody else think that by the end of the game we would find out this is just some elaborate prequel or sequel to Dark Souls?

[Dr.Abscondus]

No.

[Sabaithal]

I can see this game being a prequel, the patterns are certainly there. But Memezaki never confirms whenever this is the case, and the only time he has ever denied it outright was with Bloodborne apparently.

So make your own headcanon about it.

My question is, what was there before the Erdtrees?

[Achillies425]

Escrito originalmente por Sabaithal:

I can see this game being a prequel, the patterns are certainly there. But Memezaki never confirms whenever this is the case, and the only time he has ever denied it outright was with Bloodborne apparently.

So make your own headcanon about it.

My question is, what was there before the Erdtrees?

Yes I'm curious about that as well. Perhaps some clues in the DLC.

[SadPlatty©]

If they where somehow connected - my theory is prequel, and the "Cannon Ending" would likely be the Lord of Frenzied Flame one.

Based on the theme being you essentially chose to let fire consume all, then it sorta plays into the theme of DS1-3 where you are seemingly pushed towards "Linking the Flame" or "Kindling the Flame".

My theory I guess would be that the flame is like the holy essence as it is likely imbued with the Erdtree's magical energies, or at least the ashes may - and science would go to say energy cannot be created or destroyed, which ER seems to use Sorcery to sneak in scientific stuff (related to the stars). Feel like it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to then say that these embers/this flame is related to the one in DS, where it being extinguished is ALSO the Age of Dark, thus ending the Age of Fire AKA the Age of Gods (funny how both series happen to link Fire to a god in one way/shape/form).

[Kain]

Only thing I find difficulty in linking t hose games is the lack of outer gods influence on Dark Souls.

[SadPlatty©]

Escrito originalmente por Kain:

Only thing I find difficulty in linking t hose games is the lack of outer gods influence on Dark Souls.

This is true - although I would think that (again - if magically related), they may exist (as the whole thing around Anor Londo was that this is where the Gods themselves lived, but had all left or died, hence Dark Anor Londo when the facade is shattered).

It could be to say that the Gods being dead is a sign that the Outer Gods where just like "Well, pack it in and let it die - they committed the gravest of sins".

It would also be interesting, as this would mean the Outer Gods will is to let the fire in Dark Souls die out, but instead the PC keeps spitting in their face and kindling it.

[Sabaithal]

Escrito originalmente por Kain:

Only thing I find difficulty in linking t hose games is the lack of outer gods influence on Dark Souls.

And where is there influence in Elden Ring exactly? I mean, if you dive DEEP into the lore, they supposedly exist. But aside from the Elden Beast being a direct creation of the Greater will, and the two fingers being its envoy where are their influence in a direct fashion? There isn't any, they can only affect the world in an indirect manner.

Such as cursing an extant being with their "blessing" and having them spread their influence over the world in that fashion Malenia.

So how would we know if they were able to influence things in DS, if the inhabitants were all touched by "The flame" that already gives them enormous power, without need of the gods? Hence, Dark Souls.

What I personally find a little confusing is, how would the frenzy flame ending lead to the Ds1 opening? Colorless fog mainly (where did that come from?), archtrees (that one's obvious), and everlasting dragons (lots of speculation on this).

[Sabaithal]

How about we take the discussion of "the gods" a bit further? What if the Elden beast itself IS the greater will given form? And in killing it, did we just permanently kill off a god?

[Kain]

Escrito originalmente por Sabaithal:

Escrito originalmente por Kain:

Only thing I find difficulty in linking t hose games is the lack of outer gods influence on Dark Souls.

And where is there influence in Elden Ring exactly? I mean, if you dive DEEP into the lore, they supposedly exist. But aside from the Elden Beast being a direct creation of the Greater will, and the two fingers being its envoy where are their influence in a direct fashion? There isn't any, they can only affect the world in an indirect manner.

Such as cursing an extant being with their "blessing" and having them spread their influence over the world in that fashion Malenia.

So how would we know if they were able to influence things in DS, if the inhabitants were all touched by "The flame" that already gives them enormous power, without need of the gods? Hence, Dark Souls.

What I personally find a little confusing is, how would the frenzy flame ending lead to the Ds1 opening? Colorless fog mainly (where did that come from?), archtrees (that one's obvious), and everlasting dragons (lots of speculation on this).

And yet you seem remnants of their influence all around, the twin moons, the deathbirds, the forge of the giants, the three fingers, the formless god and so on, even though they act as proxies you can feel their fading influence, you don't see any of that in Dark Souls and that's my point.

[Kain]

Escrito originalmente por Sabaithal:

How about we take the discussion of "the gods" a bit further? What if the Elden beast itself IS the greater will given form? And in killing it, did we just permanently kill off a god?

It isn't, it's just a vassal, not the real God, from it's soul "It was the vassal beast of the Greater Will and living incarnation of the concept of Order." It's basically Jesus, a part of God, but not God itself.

[Sabaithal]

Escrito originalmente por Kain:

And yet you seem remnants of their influence all around, the twin moons, the deathbirds, the forge of the giants, the three fingers, the formless god and so on, even though they act as proxies you can feel their fading influence, you don't see any of that in Dark Souls and that's my point.

You say you don't see their influence, but how do you know? If all knowledge of these "gods" was forgotten, yet they still sent cardinals such as the deathbirds and such into the world, would the new inhabitants not simply see this as "normal"?

In Dark Souls there is still many of the same influences when you think about it. Sorceries, flame, BLACKFLAME, the Dark in general, a nameless poison worse than normal poison that everyone just calls "toxic", etc.

So how do you know the "forgotten gods" in this scenario aren't actually still affecting the world? They very well could be, but no one attributes these acts as "influence of a god" anymore, because they already have their own, very tangible, godlike figures.

[Señor Brown]

Escrito originalmente por Dollmaker:

Dont think so.

Pretty sure its just a completely separate thing.

Then what the heck is Patches doing in ER?

[쿠키]

I remember a video that GRRM exactly said in his interview,
"The game is called the Elden Ring, and it's a sequal to a video game that came out a few years ago called Dark Souls"
You can search youtube video "GRRM elden ring interview"

[Kain]

Escrito originalmente por Sabaithal:

Escrito originalmente por Kain:

And yet you seem remnants of their influence all around, the twin moons, the deathbirds, the forge of the giants, the three fingers, the formless god and so on, even though they act as proxies you can feel their fading influence, you don't see any of that in Dark Souls and that's my point.

You say you don't see their influence, but how do you know? If all knowledge of these "gods" was forgotten, yet they still sent cardinals such as the deathbirds and such into the world, would the new inhabitants not simply see this as "normal"?

In Dark Souls there is still many of the same influences when you think about it. Sorceries, flame, BLACKFLAME, the Dark in general, a nameless poison worse than normal poison that everyone just calls "toxic", etc.

So how do you know the "forgotten gods" in this scenario aren't actually still affecting the world? They very well could be, but no one attributes these acts as "influence of a god" anymore, because they already have their own, very tangible, godlike figures.

Simple, there are no direct references, sure, we can see magic and incantations as the way the gods made themselves manifest, but there aren't direct references and it would be all head cannon. It could work, but, there just isn't anything that link it to outside influence,

So again, I'm not saying it couldn't work with some work, just t hat there are no direct references like ER provides and for me it's a big deal.

[Sabaithal]

Escrito originalmente por Kain:

Simple, there are no direct references, sure, we can see magic and incantations as the way the gods made themselves manifest, but there aren't direct references and it would be all head cannon. It could work, but, there just isn't anything that link it to outside influence,

So again, I'm not saying it couldn't work with some work, just t hat there are no direct references like ER provides and for me it's a big deal.

Oh believe me, I don't have an established headcanon for this at all, I'm just hypothesizing right now.

I'm just saying, I can see the potential connections were someone to believe these two series exist in the same universe. But, as with everything FROM writes, its going to be left just vague enough thats its impossible to determine with any degree of certaintly based on direct context alone.

Going to try and figure out things in ER the same way I ended up figuring out a lot of stuff in DS3, by ignoring the dialogue and instead focusing on what is tangible, what can be seen directly. You'd be surprised what you can figure out, that will appear extremely obvious in hindsight (like the pus of man and where they came from).