So what's going on with Melina and Ranni?

[IchigoMait]

Both seem to be linked, Melinas eye burned shut. (rune of death)
Ranni died after being burnt to a crisp. (rune of death)
Both look the same, but Ranni is just a doll, in the vicinity of a doll maker in the castle. (only reason because of the Rune of Death mark and mirror image, they don't look similar side by side)

Normally would think they both are twins, in terms twin spirits, sharing the same body.
Like Marika & Radagon, Irina & Hyetta and Yura & Shabriri dunno about others, but that seems to be a thing in that world, because of Marika who rules over it, who also combined with the Elden Beast, we've never seen any of them exist at the same time, alive that is.

Considering the lore.
Seems Ranni stole the Rune of Death, used that to kill her body only, and also killed her step brother Godwyn in spirit only, that already shows her twin was Godwyn, which ensured she would die only in body, showing that the twin thing is an ongoing thing.

For some reason she had to kill Godwyn in spirit only, for her to kill her body only. And that's probably because her father is Radagon and mother is Rennala. While Godwyn's mother is Marika, father being Godfrey. While Marika and Radagon are the same halves.

Then she bound her spirit into a doll that resembles her former master Snow Witch.
Thought maybe Melina would be the Snow Witch, but another option is that Melina is one of the assassins of Black Knives, and got cursed by the Death Rune, like Ranni herself, so the similarity could be just a red herring. Also Melina probably is a Numen like all the other assassin's of Marika's Black Knives.

Ranni's choice of doll look was based on her mentor who is called a Snow Witch, but Rennala is also a Snow Witch, but also mother of Ranni.

Also Ranni tried to save Rennala, when you had the first stage fight against Rennala, the second stage fight is an illusion made by Ranni trying to save her, even if it's not needed, Rennala still lives.

For peeps who didn't know.
Lunar Princess Ranni's Relative(s)
Radagon (father)
Queen Rennala (mother)
General Radahn (brother)

Praetor Rykard (brother)
Malenia the Severed (half-sister)
Miquella (half-brother)
Godwyn the Golden (stepbrother)
Morgott, the Omen King (stepbrother)
Mohg, Lord of Blood (stepbrother)


Conclusion.
Ranni is the daughter of Rennala and Radagon.
She stole a Rune of Death from Maliketh, and imbued the power into her assassin's of Black Knives and orchestrated her own death for freedom. She killed her stebrother's soul and her own body and bound herself to a doll in the image of her mentor Snow Witch, which is also called her mother Rennala, for the sake of not being a puppet of the gods and make a world where gods don't rule, ironic lel.

Melina is the daughter of Marika and ???.
Her purpose is to kindle the flame, she is basically a living furnace log. But she will be pissed off if you try to burn the entire world, basically making her entire existence meaningless, she won't be pissed off if you only sacrifice yourself instead of using her. But she can't get pissed off, if you sacrifice her beforehand, jokes on her.
That's pretty much it about her.

But then we have this.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jpMzm-32wp8/maxresdefault.jpg

[John Titor]

Originally posted by Fineous:

...No one mentioned the blue eye detail (and the normal one white)...

No one mentioned my impressively large meat marbles either, which play a significant role in the whole Ranni / Melina narrative. I'm very disappointed in this community's lore analysis.

[Fineous🔥]

Originally posted by John Titor:

Originally posted by Fineous:

...No one mentioned the blue eye detail (and the normal one white)...

No one mentioned my impressively large meat marbles either, which play a significant role in the whole Ranni / Melina narrative. I'm very disappointed in this community's lore analysis.

My orange crazy eyes making me look the most mentally stable person of the lands Between are more important! (i can also throw lazzzzeeers from them!)

[Sirius]

Originally posted by Fineous:

My orange crazy eyes making me look the most mentally stable person of the lands Between are more important! (i can also throw lazzzzeeers from them!)

Weirdboy confirmed.

[Fineous🔥]

Originally posted by |x|SiriuS|x|:

Originally posted by Fineous:

My orange crazy eyes making me look the most mentally stable person of the lands Between are more important! (i can also throw lazzzzeeers from them!)

Weirdboy confirmed.

Oh well i can take that.....at least i dont have a pillow husbowaifu.

[Coin]

Melina is likely Marika's daughter and all three are or were working together.

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

I think Destined Death just meant like truly definite death.

(this game really needs to clarify the whole Death thing...)

Also, their weapons and Maliketh's were infused with it, but after Maliketh's demise, Destined Death was unleashed on the world once more, so it wouldnt really be unique to the Black Knives anymore (we just rob them of their job lol)

Open to interpretation, but likely rune of death brings souls to the Erdtree as well as governs destined death, aka a guaranteed full on death of any creature.

Originally posted by Crest:

the flame of frenzy ending, she threatened you with the destined death. the only one who got hold of that was Malekith and the remaining of the black knives

Melina is likely either a former member of the Black Knives or was trained to fight like them, since she uses same combat animations. As well as being connected to both Ranni and Marika.

[IchigoMait]

Originally posted by Coin:

Melina is likely Marika's daughter and all three are or were working together.

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

I think Destined Death just meant like truly definite death.

(this game really needs to clarify the whole Death thing...)

Also, their weapons and Maliketh's were infused with it, but after Maliketh's demise, Destined Death was unleashed on the world once more, so it wouldnt really be unique to the Black Knives anymore (we just rob them of their job lol)

Open to interpretation, but likely rune of death brings souls to the Erdtree as well as governs destined death, aka a guaranteed full on death of any creature.

Originally posted by Crest:

the flame of frenzy ending, she threatened you with the destined death. the only one who got hold of that was Malekith and the remaining of the black knives

Melina is likely either a former member of the Black Knives or was trained to fight like them, since she uses same combat animations. As well as being connected to both Ranni and Marika.

The Black Knives are Ranni's assassin's, she orchestrated the entire first death of gods.
Rune of Death was stolen from Maliketh, which was used to do a specific ritual to bind her spirit to a doll, that looks like her former mentor (real) Snow Witch, which also looks like a mirror copy of Melina.

[IchigoMait]

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

I dont think theres any real connection between the two.

Other than vaguely looking similar and MAYBE knowing each other, not much to go off.


Also, Marika and Radagon were the "Same", the other two cases it was someone possessing a corpse.


Ranni's real body shows she had red hair, and was pretty tall, which doesnt look like Melina at all, when it comes to the doll's body, its stated her Master was a Snow Witch, and Melina doesnt use any kind of Sorceries, or even looks like one, could also mention the obvious, but Melina doesnt have 4 arms, and god knows if the Witch had blue skin as well.


Regarding Melina's identity, its really hard to pin point, based on her dialogue, shes in some way Marika's "daughter", if it means actual daughter or creation, who knows, but speculation from the Frenzy Ending, it could probably mean that Melina's was created from the Gloam Eyed Queen's remains, since she was defeated my Maliketh who is in direct orders from Marika, and likely after deciding to betray the Golden Order and the Greater Will, created Melina to guide a Tarnished to put an end to the Greater Will's control.

I never said Ranni was a twin of Melina, only that they are linked, because of Rune of Death. Ranni's real body having red hair is rather obvious, half sister of Malenia.
The blue body is prolly just because of wanting to still resemble her mother Rennala.

Though could be that Melina is a black knives assassin, and a Numen, and has nothing to do with the original Snow Witch.

"Ranni had a master known simply as the "Snow Witch", who taught her cold-based spells and also to fear the "Dark Moon". At some ponit, Ranni's father left her mother to marry Queen Marika and assume the title of second Elden Lord. Ranni and her siblings were raised to demigod status by their new stepmother.

While the Two Fingers had chosen her, Ranni did not wish to be a puppet for the Greater Will and resented her empyrean fate. In order to escape her fate, Ranni plotted to slay her own empyrean flesh while sparing her soul. In order to do so, she stole a fragment of the Rune of Death from Maliketh, the Black Blade. She imbued the power of the rune into the blades of her assassins, all of whom were Numen women close to Queen Marika herself, and also gave a fragment to her brother Rykard. The assassins fell upon the royal capital in what would come to be known as the Night of Black Knives.

In order to assure only her body was slain, Ranni simultaneously used had the assassins kill her step-brother Godwyn, killing him in spirit, while she killed herself in body. This marked the step-siblings as the first demigod casualties since Marika had ushered in the Age of the Erdtree. Ranni transfered her spirit into a doll said to be carved in the image of her former master, the Snow Witch.

At some point after the Night of Black Knives, Queen Marika shattered the Elden Ring. Ranni claimed a Great Rune, but appears to have largely remained outside of the conflict. As a consequence of her doll body, Ranni required extended periods of hibernation. Ranni withdrew from the world, hiding in the Carian Manor while her agents worked to bring about her plan of ridding the Lands Between of the influence of the Greater Will, while pursuing divine ascension on her own terms. "

[Sabaithal]

Melina was the originally wielder of the blackflame, probably not her first solution. Her knowledge of the frenzied flame, and caution of it, implies she likely tried that particular method herself for burning the Erdtree. But she failed, defeated and sealed by Maliketh into her current state, which is why her left eye has a black claw mark on it. If she is still alive after Maliketh's defeat, she assumes her original state, and her eye opens...

Ranni's originally body was destroyed seemingly of her own volition, but I do find it curious that her corpse seemed to be burned. I don't however know why one of her eyes is shut.

[Trehek]

Originally posted by IchigoMait:

*SNIP*

Good explanation. I'd like to add that the reason Ranni killed herself was that her empyrean body was bound to her two-fingers and to the Greater Will. To go forward with her plan, she needed to sever that tie.

I've also seen a lot of people confused as to why during her questline Ranni first begins to open up, but then upon embarking on her journey becomes cold and distant once more. The way I see it, she is happy with the player's help, but her goal is to separate the world from the gods, and as she plans to be the one to become the god leading this change, she needs to leave the world behind. She sees this as a lonely duty, and her intention is to face it alone. She doesn't want the player to sacrifice themselves as well (and might not be convinced they are suitable), which is why she is annoyed by the meddling. However, successfully completing her task for her and pursuing her will finally convince her and that's why she opens up again in the end.

Also, I think many players miss some of her more informative dialogue. If you simply reach her tower and tell her you came "for no particular reason", Ranni will simply recruit you. But if you instead follow Rogier's questline to the point where he asks you to go find Ranni to squeeze her for information, she will first tell you about her involvement in the Night of Black Knives. Also, once Ranni's questline has been completed, you can revisit her in her tower and she will say more about her plans. Getting that dialogue also replaces her invitation to you in the ending with a more affectionate line.

[Dollmaker]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Melina was the originally wielder of the blackflame, probably not her first solution. Her knowledge of the frenzied flame, and caution of it, implies she likely tried that particular method herself for burning the Erdtree. But she failed, defeated and sealed by Maliketh into her current state, which is why her left eye has a black claw mark on it. If she is still alive after Maliketh's defeat, she assumes her original state, and her eye opens...

Ranni's originally body was destroyed seemingly of her own volition, but I do find it curious that her corpse seemed to be burned. I don't however know why one of her eyes is shut.

Thats a whole lot of reach my friend.

Besides, knowledge of the Frenzy Flame wouldnt be that uncommon, seeing how theres villages consumed by it, and how both Morgott and Mohg guard it.

Plus the whole story surrounding Vyke.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Thats a whole lot of reach my friend.

Besides, knowledge of the Frenzy Flame wouldnt be that uncommon, seeing how theres villages consumed by it, and how both Morgott and Mohg guard it.

Plus the whole story surrounding Vyke.

Not much of a reach. Melina's desire to burn the Erdtree, her intimate knowledge of the frenzy flame, which IS uncommon (she is still sane, not many who are touched by it are), and her fighting style which is near identical to the BKAs serves as pretty massive hints at her past, and her lineage.

And her appearance at the Frenzy flame ending cutscene when she is still alive is a dead giveaway. The only way they could have made it more apparent who she once was is if she manifested blackflames as well, which it looks like she was preparing to do. There's no doubt about her true identity after that, that's as direct as FROM writing gets.

[Dollmaker]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Thats a whole lot of reach my friend.

Besides, knowledge of the Frenzy Flame wouldnt be that uncommon, seeing how theres villages consumed by it, and how both Morgott and Mohg guard it.

Plus the whole story surrounding Vyke.

Not much of a reach. Melina's desire to burn the Erdtree, her intimate knowledge of the frenzy flame, which IS uncommon (she is still sane, not many who are touched by it are), and her fighting style which is near identical to the BKAs serves as pretty massive hints at her past, and her lineage.

And her appearance at the Frenzy flame ending cutscene when she is still alive is a dead giveaway. The only way they could have made it more apparent who she once was is if she manifested blackflames as well, which it looks like she was preparing to do. There's no doubt about her true identity after that, that's as direct as FROM writing gets.

Just by looking at the victims it becomes clear that the Frenzy Flame destroys and corrupts everything it touches though.

It would be really out of character for her to even try use the Frenzy Flame, since shes trying to mend the Lands Between, not destroy it.

I doubt even the Godslayers would even try to meddle with the Frenzy Flame, since even Mohg of all people tries to contain it.

Besides, we still dont know whats the real connection of Gloam Eyed Queen and Melina, only that they might be connected in some way.

[zero]

theres nothing connecting them really, and ranni didn't die by burning, no idea where you got that idea, the fact that ranni's body holds a cursed seal shows she died to a black knife that held a part of the rune of death (the only thing that *actually* kills something in this game)

i also do not know how you think they look similar cause like..they don't at all?

mel is also def not the mentor of ranni, we know who that is due to both items descriptions and well, ranni's doll form.

if mel is related in anyway, its due to their relation to the queen (and not in a family sense)

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Just by looking at the victims it becomes clear that the Frenzy Flame destroys and corrupts everything it touches though.

It would be really out of character for her to even try use the Frenzy Flame, since shes trying to mend the Lands Between, not destroy it.

I doubt even the Godslayers would even try to meddle with the Frenzy Flame, since even Mohg of all people tries to contain it.

Besides, we still dont know whats the real connection of Gloam Eyed Queen and Melina, only that they might be connected in some way.

It wouldn't be out of character at all for her to use it BEFORE she was familiar with it. She wanted to burn the erdtree, it was a possibility. Considering she lost her memory after having her eye sealed shut, I'd wager she tried the frenzy route before recruiting the tarnished. And the frenzy flame isn't absolutely corrupting. The player can use frenzy incantations without being the lord of frenzy, so there is a way to control the chaos.

As for the Godslayer issue, well she lost her memory, and she no longer was able to wield the blackflame, otherwise there is no reason for her not to just try and use that.

And we know they are connected because in the cutscene we see her new appearance, its identical to the description of the gloam eyed queen. Again, with how FROM writes, that is definitely not coincidence. That's the normal writing equivalent of a character loudly brandishing their identity from the top of a particularly fancy clocktower with a megaphone. Nothing provides as definitive evidence as seeing something directly as the player.

[Dollmaker]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Just by looking at the victims it becomes clear that the Frenzy Flame destroys and corrupts everything it touches though.

It would be really out of character for her to even try use the Frenzy Flame, since shes trying to mend the Lands Between, not destroy it.

I doubt even the Godslayers would even try to meddle with the Frenzy Flame, since even Mohg of all people tries to contain it.

Besides, we still dont know whats the real connection of Gloam Eyed Queen and Melina, only that they might be connected in some way.

It wouldn't be out of character at all for her to use it BEFORE she was familiar with it. She wanted to burn the erdtree, it was a possibility. Considering she lost her memory after having her eye sealed shut, I'd wager she tried the frenzy route before recruiting the tarnished. And the frenzy flame isn't absolutely corrupting. The player can use frenzy incantations without being the lord of frenzy, so there is a way to control the chaos.

As for the Godslayer issue, well she lost her memory, and she no longer was able to wield the blackflame, otherwise there is no reason for her not to just try and use that.

And we know they are connected because in the cutscene we see her new appearance, its identical to the description of the gloam eyed queen. Again, with how FROM writes, that is definitely not coincidence. That's the normal writing equivalent of a character loudly brandishing their identity from the top of a particularly fancy clocktower with a megaphone. Nothing provides as definitive evidence as seeing something directly as the player.

Again, pure speculation with the whole Frenzy thing, and honestly, doesnt have much weight behind it.

The thing about the Queen, is that all we know, is that theres a connection between the two, but we dont know how, like i mentioned in my first post in this thread, its possible that Melina was created from the Queen's remains, since Marika is obviously the "mother" Melina talks about, and since Maliketh is under her direct orders, it wouldnt be much of a stretch to believe Marika ultimately used the Queen to create Melina.

And the Frenzy ending doesnt really say anything about her mindset other than wanting to kill the Lord of Frenzy for destroying the world.

Regarding the incantations... eh... i mean, kinda tricky to use gameplay to explain the lore.