nerf or remove the delayed enemy attacks please

[twiggy]

its so dumb to have enemies constantly use delayed attack animations all the time. like you literally have no idea when to actually dodge because the wind up animations for enemies are all so long and drawn out for no other reason than to purposely create artificial difficulty because the game was obviously rushed

[justfaded]

Go back and play the older games and see how easy they are. Everybody is better at this genre of games and things need to get harder.

[Unidentifieded]

Delayed attacks are fine once you get the hang of it, just turtle behind your shield, analyze the hit patterns and build some muscle memory. They give you an opportunity to land a quick hit, or for you to dash back and chug some consumables.

The attacks I personally find distasteful are the ones that have like a < 0.3~ second reaction window, like Godrick his Whirlwind when his Dragon arm roars and a fraction of a second later the attack animation starts. (happens during the roar animation)

[Krazy Wallet]

Baron01 původně napsal:

One example for illustration, Runic Bear's grab attack, which starts as his 2-hit ground & pound but it turns out to be a grab with absolutely silly delay while the bear still moves and track you no matter where you move.

Can you learn to spot these and either delay your dodge or move outside of range? Yes, you can. Is this artificially increasing difficulty without adding much to the fight itself? Yes, it absolutely is.

I would disagree that this is artificial difficulty as it is completely within our control to read and avoid these attacks. I find the bear's sudden charge to be much harder to dodge than the hug, but that's just my experience.

My view of artificial difficulty is just adding health and damage to an enemy, or excessive one-hit kills like hard mode on Nier Automata - still have PTSD from that intro! Having an attack that counters our instincts to dodge immediately is simply a different type of challenge - much like a changeup pitch in baseball. The batter typically is expecting a very fast, hard-to-hit pitch. Knowing this, the pitcher sends a slow, mockingly easy ball to hit. The outcome can be an easy homerun or a hilarious whiff by swinging too early.

These delays, as many have pointed out, are usually long enough to punish with a few cheap hits on our end before the animation completes. Unfortunately, if you use colossal weapons, we need to be more patient. But hey, that's the price of big hammer making small things go splat!

[Lorenzo Von Matterhorn]

nerf bait posts

[Tiasmoon]

Yard-Dog® původně napsal:

I LIKE the fact that enemies have delayed attacks that are deceiving. It shouldn't be so predictable.

I sometimes read this argument. It has the assumption that being predictable somehow makes attacks easy to avoid. That isnt reality for anyone but the very most skilled players, tho. Besides, attacks can also be made unpredictable by varying combos and patterns. Something Elden Ring also does.

twiggy původně napsal:

no? it just makes the gameplay sluggish and unresponsive.

Indeed.

Agathocles69 původně napsal:

Gods...nerf this - nerf that. Strange nowadays

They should have used better phrasing like ''adjust'' or ''improve''. People pay too much attention to the specific words used, rather then the intent behind the words.

Krazy Wallet původně napsal:

Now that we know what the attacks are and how to manipulate the AI, we can better predict when we need to dodge and focus on memorizing and baiting out certain moves.

Abusing AI limitations rather then reacting to the moves themselves feelsbad. Its not about mastery either. It just feels bad to play like that. 200 hours in, I didnt feel any different about that.

Also: switching up type of attacks, delay, no delay, timing of delay, as well as making that variable, on top of possible combo switching.. changing that all the time makes it hard to get an actual mastery of the game. You can't rely nearly as much on muscle memory (a huge part of mastery) when the timings your muscles remember might all be wrong for any given boss.


I dont think they should nerf bosses.

I think they should do what they should have done in the first place: design the player combat mechanics better. Remove input delay. Fully or mostly remove input queueing. Remove stamina and rely on posture instead. (already in the game) Fix the camera and make it zoom less. Fix lock on camera going haywire.

If they do that, we'll have amazing combats and no need to redesign any of those boss mechanics.

Delays on attacks wont feel bad when we can react to them without also having a delay on rolling. Heavy combos wont feel as bad when we dont have to completely drain our stamina only be left without the ability to attack (or just 1 hit) afterwards.

But only the future can tell if they choose to do that in future games or updates (last one is very unlikely). For whatever reason they chose to make Elden Ring's combat downgraded like this. Was it because they want that design? Or because they thought fans want it? Idk. But it just isnt good enough anymore to keep up with their boss designing.

[YosemiteBear]

go back to diablo immortal
edit: oh you are the weeb who kept posting troll post...cringe

[Mark Stroker]

“all the time” …. sounds like you would be used to them by now then?

[Homeless.]

Delay your dodge, problem solved

[Tiniturtle]

twiggy původně napsal:

its so dumb to have enemies constantly use delayed attack animations all the time. like you literally have no idea when to actually dodge because the wind up animations for enemies are all so long and drawn out for no other reason than to purposely create artificial difficulty because the game was obviously rushed

let remove the game
go to youtube and watch gameplay instead :)

[Krazy Wallet]

Tiasmoon původně napsal:

Krazy Wallet původně napsal:

Now that we know what the attacks are and how to manipulate the AI, we can better predict when we need to dodge and focus on memorizing and baiting out certain moves.

Abusing AI limitations rather then reacting to the moves themselves feelsbad. Its not about mastery either. It just feels bad to play like that. 200 hours in, I didnt feel any different about that.

Also: switching up type of attacks, delay, no delay, timing of delay, as well as making that variable, on top of possible combo switching.. changing that all the time makes it hard to get an actual mastery of the game. You can't rely nearly as much on muscle memory (a huge part of mastery) when the timings your muscles remember might all be wrong for any given boss.

That's a fair critique, which boils down to what different people enjoy. Some people like the twitch reflexes to dance in and out of danger. Other's enjoy the methodical strategy and learning and memorizing. I don't think either viewpoint is wrong; different people enjoy different things. Elden Ring deviates a degree from Dark Souls 3 which, in my opinion, was focused slightly more towards twitch (there are exceptions). Compare that to Dark Souls 2 which was far more on the methodical side. I, personally, enjoy the feeling that I can read each and every boss' tell and have the serenity to react when appropriate rather than on instinct.

The only thing I would disagree with is your comment about not relying on muscle memory. It sounds like you are a souls vet like me. So you came into Elden Ring with Souls muscle memory. Much like Sekiro, we need to unlearn (which is much harder) our souls habit and relearn how Elden Ring wants us to play. It is much harder to do in Elden Ring though as it looks and feels so much like Dark Souls. Kind of genius when you think about it. How does From continually make their games harder for their longstanding souls vets? Create a game that looks and feels the same, but punishes their old muscle memory.

[twiggy]

Krazy Wallet původně napsal:

Tiasmoon původně napsal:

Abusing AI limitations rather then reacting to the moves themselves feelsbad. Its not about mastery either. It just feels bad to play like that. 200 hours in, I didnt feel any different about that.

Also: switching up type of attacks, delay, no delay, timing of delay, as well as making that variable, on top of possible combo switching.. changing that all the time makes it hard to get an actual mastery of the game. You can't rely nearly as much on muscle memory (a huge part of mastery) when the timings your muscles remember might all be wrong for any given boss.

That's a fair critique, which boils down to what different people enjoy. Some people like the twitch reflexes to dance in and out of danger. Other's enjoy the methodical strategy and learning and memorizing. I don't think either viewpoint is wrong; different people enjoy different things. Elden Ring deviates a degree from Dark Souls 3 which, in my opinion, was focused slightly more towards twitch (there are exceptions). Compare that to Dark Souls 2 which was far more on the methodical side. I, personally, enjoy the feeling that I can read each and every boss' tell and have the serenity to react when appropriate rather than on instinct.

The only thing I would disagree with is your comment about not relying on muscle memory. It sounds like you are a souls vet like me. So you came into Elden Ring with Souls muscle memory. Much like Sekiro, we need to unlearn (which is much harder) our souls habit and relearn how Elden Ring wants us to play. It is much harder to do in Elden Ring though as it looks and feels so much like Dark Souls. Kind of genius when you think about it. How does From continually make their games harder for their longstanding souls vets? Create a game that looks and feels the same, but punishes their old muscle memory.

and you also fail to realize that even though sekiro combat was vastly different than ds3, you could still just spam block all the time so why cant you spam roll in this game too?

[Krazy Wallet]

twiggy původně napsal:

Krazy Wallet původně napsal:

That's a fair critique, which boils down to what different people enjoy. Some people like the twitch reflexes to dance in and out of danger. Other's enjoy the methodical strategy and learning and memorizing. I don't think either viewpoint is wrong; different people enjoy different things. Elden Ring deviates a degree from Dark Souls 3 which, in my opinion, was focused slightly more towards twitch (there are exceptions). Compare that to Dark Souls 2 which was far more on the methodical side. I, personally, enjoy the feeling that I can read each and every boss' tell and have the serenity to react when appropriate rather than on instinct.

The only thing I would disagree with is your comment about not relying on muscle memory. It sounds like you are a souls vet like me. So you came into Elden Ring with Souls muscle memory. Much like Sekiro, we need to unlearn (which is much harder) our souls habit and relearn how Elden Ring wants us to play. It is much harder to do in Elden Ring though as it looks and feels so much like Dark Souls. Kind of genius when you think about it. How does From continually make their games harder for their longstanding souls vets? Create a game that looks and feels the same, but punishes their old muscle memory.

and you also fail to realize that even though sekiro combat was vastly different than ds3, you could still just spam block all the time so why cant you spam roll in this game too?

I did not fail to realize it. That was actually what I was attempting to draw attention to by bringing it up. If you play Sekiro like Dark Souls, you'll have a bad time. If you play Elden Ring like Dark Souls, you'll get punished for old habits.

Also saying you can spam block therefore we should be able to spam dodge is illogical. Two different games of very different maturity. From branched out to different styles with Sekiro and I'm sure they have not yet perfected that formula. They did try to punish spam blocking by creating smaller parry windows, but it was still largely exploitable. Either way, it's immaterial for Elden Ring.

It's obvious they don't want you to spam roll as so many bosses have ways to catch you in your roll and delay their attacks to wait out your i-frames. I'm not sure what you want here. Several people are trying to give you good, sound advice for dealing with delayed attacks (not all, some are trolls), but it does appear that your argument is "take it out because I don't like it". Perhaps I'm missing something but From has made it clear what their theory is for our gaming experience. We are to try, fail, learn, and try again in order to feel accomplishment once we do succeed. Delayed attacks are all part of the challenge that we are to overcome.

[Plex]

They aren't delayed they are just slow, just learn the attacks same as any other attack in the game or any other game. This isn't their past games, its a new one that's different - do things differently to adapt

[SmallGespenst]

it was actually kinda a meme in past game that early enemies were harder than later ones 'cause they were so slow, in DS1 the basic beginning of the game hollows were extremely difficult to parry since they had such a long wind-up while the Anor Londo Silver Knights were one of the easiest since they were fast and very straight forward. Delaying attacks breaks the "just roll the moment you see the boss start prepping an attack" always-win strategy because one technique shouldn't work on literally every boss in the game.

[IngloriousBastid]

Its a feint, lots of bosses and regular enemies do it. You can almost always avoid it by rolling after the attack is initiated, not when the weapon is raised.

I.E Feint > Initiate attack > ROLL HERE