ELDEN RING
What is the actual point of most of the greases?
Hello

So. I've really hard time to understand why should be resources be wasted on most of greases that are in-game. I can definitely say, that at least fire, blood and barely freezing (due to accesibility), have some sense to use, but the others feel kinda obsolete, at least to me. Let me enlist these:

Magic Grease - Crystal buds doesn't seem to get that common, and I don't think I've ever ever find someone who is weak to magic. Have you ever actually use that? Where?

Holy Grease - I don't actually think I've ever find an enemy, that has a good weakness to it. What add insult to injury to that is most of the enemies has high holy resistance. What the actuall hell the purpose of this one?

Lightning Grease - It's not really worthwhile to apply it to weapon, when you can have arrows and pots with that. Why? Because when it comes to the watery places, it can make a good lightning wave to inflict damage. Maybe this can be reasonable to have it in raining weather, but I still think the other crafting sources, that bring lightning damage, do the job better.

Poison/Rot - Poison might be easier to make, but even then some weapons can outclass that damage really well. We also have some ashes of war and affinities, that can bring it (well at the cost of us not be able to use greases, but fair enough). And why would you make Rot one, when Rot pots can do job infinitely better (or maybe even arrows, but on bigger targets)? Hard to tell the purpose, when it's being outclassed in passive on weapons.

Dragonwound Grease - what's even purpose of this? still have a hard time to understand. I thought it would do more damage to dragons (to be like weakness to them), but it appears the damage is very close to the one without. Need some explanation on this.

Shield Grease - it definitely adds stability, but I don't think it's useful enough. I though it would be akin to shield spells in DS games, but it seems rather weak. Just stability doesn't really feel good enough for it.

Soporific Grease - Well, sleep is good, and we have no affinity to add for a sleep. But then again. why not use sleep pots? I feel like, it's not distinctive enough to identify that enemy got in sleep state, so you can gain advantage of that, but if you use it on faster weapons, it's pretty much negates sleep really fast. Hard to say why should it be used on weapons.

Need some understanding and maybe your knowledge where do you use them or something.
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Показані коментарі 1628 із 28
They exist to be bait items to lure you into ambushes.
There are two types of dragons, normal dragons and ancient dragons. Dragonwound grease only boosts damage against normal dragons, and those are the reskins you can find all over the place like Agheel and also magma wyrms.
Цитата допису SadPlatty©:
Цитата допису Immortal Reaver:
Dragonwound increase damage by 0%-20%. The lesser the dragon is the more damage it adds. For Placidusax it does not increase damage
Which is goofy, as he has mostly the normal dragon resistance to lightning (it is effective, though for him it is as effective as fire/ice - weakest to straight pierce dmg).

Yeah, it's a little weird with Placidusax. It IS physically a dragon but the game considers him to be an Elden Lord so your normal dragon fighting buffs probably wont work as well.
Well in DS3 basically grease/resin concept wasnt thought trough too well either.

goldpine resin -> exceptionally good vs everything

fire -> good vs Crystal Sage, DSA , Aldrich
magic -> good vs DSA
dark -> good vs Dancer, Cinder
bleed -> good vs Dancer

So the whole concept of DS3 resins was -> use goldpine vs every boss unless you are out of goldpine then use the ones that are good vs specifically only 1-2 bosses
Автор останньої редакції: Sonnenbank; 2 черв. 2022 о 10:43
the crafting system has really nerfed resins/greases/bundles.

in previous games, resins and bundles were cheap to buy, and available in unlimited quantities from firelink. now you have to do tons of crafting so it feels wasteful to use them all the time, especially drawstring grease since string is so wildly hard to come by.

generally the reason for using them was free extra damage, especially with bundles. in ds3, the highest damage you could get on a standard meta build was by infusing heavy or keen and buffing w lightning bundles. then in the middle was elemental weapons like dark infusion on an int/fth build, and at the bottom are unbuffed physical infusions.

all the different damage types give you options. is it raining? dont use fire, use lightning, it gets a buff in the rain. enemy weak to magic? use magic grease. enemy weak to bleed? use blood grease. skeletons? use holy grease. need to block alot? use shield grease. you are supposed to pick and choose to suit the situation.

lightning grease is usually the best general option, since more enemies tend to have lower lightning resistances. this is especially true in pvp. the fact that you can also get lightning damage from pots is not really relevant.
If greases function like previous games, they add a flat amount to your damage. Early game this is good, but you don't get access to too many greases, their recipes or the components until much later.

When I say flat damage, I mean it does not scale with stats. So if you add holy to your weapon as a faith build, you only get the ~65 damage (not %) increase to your attack. By contrast,ahes of war are so easy to apply and add scaling damage on top of it, plus a related ability that will likely stack more power so greases are generally obsolete sue to AOW.
Like in the previous games to add some magic dmg to non magic dmg users (aka melees), to offset the lack of it for them. To be used on specific bosses or mobs, where they have specific weakness to certain type of dmg.
Hoooly Jesus, I thought no one will find this thread. But this one blow up xD
They don't last long enough to be useful. My inventory is cluttered with them.
Dragonwound does what it says on the tin; 30% extra damage against dragons/wyrms.
Magic grease works best against tree/draconic sentinels, lightning for just about every other heavily armored enemy like crucible knights, banished knights and prelates.
The rot/poison/soporific one's you can just leave to gather dust.
Use a holy-enchanting art-of-war instead of holy grease against unholy/undead creatures, much more efficient and reliable.
Grease was amazing in DS3, however, in Elden Ring the use is sadly extremely limited.

The issue in part is where you find the recipe and most of all the massive screw up of elemental dmg negation stats on enemies.

First about enemy elemental Dmg Negation:

In Dark Souls 3 you had defenses range from -100% (aka double dmg) > 0 (normal dmg) > 100% (nullifies for zero dmg). This means appropriate elemental application had very strong benefits such as the infamous Dragonslayer Axe or Darkhand as most bosses were very weak to dark and lightning. Meanwhile, fire often ranged from very weak to no weakness but was rarely resisted so it almost always offered at least a decent to good dmg boost on top of fire stagger effect.

In Elden Ring enemy & boss dmg negation appear to be nearly exclusively 0 > 100%. The rare exceptions seem to almost exclusively be undead such as Death Rite Bird and Skeleton types which take incredibly high holy damage. The other exception isn't damage but basic stagger caused by fire on some plant types, and seemingly only plant types this time around as I can tell.

This means a resin that may add +80 of an element (bonus dmg, not straight AR despite stat screen showings) may result in +80-0 damage (never negative, it will never lower your dmg ever just at worst add nothing extra). This is a strong contrast to Dark Souls 3 where you could get it to have a range of around 160 - 0 which means early game it could easily be nearly tripling your early game damage and even late game seeing a boost (NG, not NG+) of 30-50% if something is especially weak to it.

In Elden Ring, though, the best bonus aside from that holy case is so much smaller that even early game its a much less substantial improvement if not something even smaller as most bosses frequently have around 40% resistance to almost every element on avg if they're NOT resistant to it and if resistant even more... this means the actual range of boost most of the time is in fact 0-48 which is rather pathetic and raises the question of if it is worth it for a consumable and effort involved when you could just opt for something like the Ash of War: Flaming Strike which early on has a higher base AR value plus can be boosted with fire coating providing much more damage than just a resin in ER's current state. Sadly, these skills could be much more impressive if there were proper elemental weaknesses, too, but this all causes bleed and physical damage to reign in current ER PvE/PvP Meta. Even if you did buff while it wouldn't hurt your dmg for the meager gains its almost never worth it, esp since bleed is so strongly supported at current as a superior alternative almost always.

In terms of grease usage per OP, personally, even at RL1 with +0 where it would be most beneficial aside from bleed my usage has been...

Magic Grease - Just Valiant Gargoyle because it was the highest dmg one since its bleed immune. This was before blackflame sword cast animation speed buff. I needed every dmg I could get and it had the best results. That is the only time I've used it.

Holy Grease - This one is tricky. First, many think holy is bad in the game. It actually isn't. There are a few late game bosses very resistant to it, but otherwise it is the best element in the game. It is the only element I've seen notable weakness to such as Skeletons, Deathrite Birds, the shadow boss monster (forget name), etc. Next, the grease recipe is much later on in the game, so much so it has actually passed up almost all encounters that would see meaningful use from it, at least in NG... Even worse is Sacred Blade ash (+holy infusion) and Holy pots are so ridiculous good, far better than holy grease, that it makes holy grease a joke in the situation grease would have otherwise been very good.

Lightning Grease - Against Iron Maiden machines if I didn't have lightning spell on hand at the time or yet, otherwise not used it.

Poison/Rot Grease - Never used it. Might actually be good if you want to use it but I've not used them tbh. That said, when I tested it initially I found one of the ash of wars with poison to work so well I can't see any need for the grease. For Rot dragonbreath exists or rot weapons making it a hard sale unless you specifically want to randomly add rot to a bleed weapon like Uchigatana which is debatable.

Dragonwound Grease - never used, just use bleed instead. I think this grease might be of more use if you're using jump attacks or ash of war spam. I am RL1 with +0 weapons so that isn't the case as I'll just use bleed unless I want to use a heavy weapon in rare cases which I'm not going to do against a dragon, personally, unless I want to smash its face if its a shorter dragon and not one of the tall ones hard to reach on foot (I've neglected Torrent).

Shield Grease - Never used, I don't use shields really. I can't imagine using this over the spell and ash though.

Soporific Grease - Amazing if something is too aggro or mobile like some of the tougher rune bears that wont stay in it or you want to repeatedly put them to sleep, but otherwise sleep pot one and done are probably best. Just speculation as I've not been using them cause I'm too miserly to spend my ingredients. I'm actually saving them so when I finish the last area in the game and am done I can just backup my save and use them to help coop or whatever and not farm lol. Also sleep feels too OP in general so I try to avoid it, at least for this run. NG+/etc. its on.

The other issue is regarding stagger effect. Only plants seem to suffer from fire stagger in this game unlike DS3 where it was a common exploitable benefit.

tl;dr Due to grease placements, alternative superior options, and most of all resistance design of enemies/bosses grease is approx 1/2 to 1/4th as effective as in DS3 on average... showing how far, or not, that +80 approx dmg goes. :/
Автор останньої редакції: Xengre; 2 черв. 2022 о 14:00
I do understand why you're asking the questions about the grease. But there are some people out there that are playing warrior builds and they did not put points in faith or intelligence, so they will not be able to use magic to put status effects on their weapons. So that's why there's grease for those that do not have any skills in magic. It's just another way of playing the game. The grease might not have any heavy effects but it's just another toy to play with. Also it's another reason to go out and collect material to make something.
Цитата допису Miles (Tails) Prower:
Hello

So. I've really hard time to understand why should be resources be wasted on most of greases that are in-game. I can definitely say, that at least fire, blood and barely freezing (due to accesibility), have some sense to use, but the others feel kinda obsolete, at least to me. Let me enlist these:

Magic Grease - Crystal buds doesn't seem to get that common, and I don't think I've ever ever find someone who is weak to magic. Have you ever actually use that? Where?

Holy Grease - I don't actually think I've ever find an enemy, that has a good weakness to it. What add insult to injury to that is most of the enemies has high holy resistance. What the actuall hell the purpose of this one?

Lightning Grease - It's not really worthwhile to apply it to weapon, when you can have arrows and pots with that. Why? Because when it comes to the watery places, it can make a good lightning wave to inflict damage. Maybe this can be reasonable to have it in raining weather, but I still think the other crafting sources, that bring lightning damage, do the job better.

Poison/Rot - Poison might be easier to make, but even then some weapons can outclass that damage really well. We also have some ashes of war and affinities, that can bring it (well at the cost of us not be able to use greases, but fair enough). And why would you make Rot one, when Rot pots can do job infinitely better (or maybe even arrows, but on bigger targets)? Hard to tell the purpose, when it's being outclassed in passive on weapons.

Dragonwound Grease - what's even purpose of this? still have a hard time to understand. I thought it would do more damage to dragons (to be like weakness to them), but it appears the damage is very close to the one without. Need some explanation on this.

Shield Grease - it definitely adds stability, but I don't think it's useful enough. I though it would be akin to shield spells in DS games, but it seems rather weak. Just stability doesn't really feel good enough for it.

Soporific Grease - Well, sleep is good, and we have no affinity to add for a sleep. But then again. why not use sleep pots? I feel like, it's not distinctive enough to identify that enemy got in sleep state, so you can gain advantage of that, but if you use it on faster weapons, it's pretty much negates sleep really fast. Hard to say why should it be used on weapons.

Need some understanding and maybe your knowledge where do you use them or something.

At a certain point in the game. There isn't a point to them. Like the 100 other crafting materials that can make worthless vague mostly useless items that give extremely minor to useless buffs that they should just not exist in the first place. Once your good with a setup. You won't need them. And farming for them takes ALOT longer than just moving forward without using it.

I can see them helping slightly during the early growth stages. But still too annoying to farm for.
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Опубліковано: 7 квіт. 2022 о 12:51
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