why doesnt morgott mention mohg?

[76561198041896520]

any ideas?

[Archdeacon Monseigneur]

Messaggio originale di Franz:

@JaggSauce: Miquella was cursed to forever be an infant, he could be technically older than Mogh.
Morgott also has his own secret police that hunts down Tarnished (which I believe are Godfrey's men, not necessarily children).

you are correct, however, Miquella is also one of the wisest of the demi gods in the lore. despite him being cursed with eternal childhood he is by far the most intelligent of them all, the most ambitious and the most "good" demi god there is (even Ranni can't compete with his generosity).

Miquella had a plan before Mohg came along to ruin it all. he was going to supplant the objectively flawed golden order and replace it with a primordial golden order. he was gonna cure his sister Malenia of her rot disease. the reason he cocooned himself was because he either wanted to cleanse himself of his childhood curse or to sacrifice himself in order to turn the haligtree into an erdtree... an erdtree that wasn't under the thrall of the great will aka the two fingers.

[Argonaut]

Messaggio originale di A Son of a Shepard:

any ideas?

Why would he? He mentions the other demigods and as we know Mohg and Morgott are considered cursed and outcasts and not part of the demigods as everyone else knows them.

[Archdeacon Monseigneur]

Messaggio originale di Dollmaker:

Messaggio originale di JaggSauce:

Morgott is basically the opposite of his brother Mohg, he is aware that he went down the path of corrupted blood and thus probably won't even recognize him as his brother, because Morgott is the one character in this entire game who is actually dedicated to the golden order absolutely, to the point where he hates himself for defiling it by being a fell omen-born.

Who knows, considering that both of them guarded the entrance to the Frenzy Flame.

that is the one part of the lore nobody can really explain. it makes almost no sense that Morgott would work with Mohg to deny anybody audience with the frenzied flame, let alone the fact that mohg has a physical manifestation there after being defeated in his own halls.
i don't know if the writing team screwed up or if there is more to it, but presently the fact mohg is guarding the frenzied flame and why he does so is a complete mystery to everyone.

my guess is that Mohg has either achieved some kind of actual godhood through his affiliation with the mother of blood (an outer goddess) and thus has become immortal in a sense
i suspect we will learn more about Mohg along with Miquella in a future DLC.

[MingQWERTY]

My theory is that he has no idea what Mogh is actually doing. We see an illusion of Mogh in the sewers guarding the path to the Frenzied Flame but it's also sealed away by Morgott.

I believe that Morgott told Mogh to stay down in the sewers as an extra layer of security to the Frenzied Flame because he knew how dangerous the Three Fingers were. However, because of how outraged Mogh was at the fact that he was sealed away for being an Omen and wanted to do his own thing like the other demigods, he abandoned his post and instead left an illusion down there.

This fooled Morgott into believing that Mogh is still down in the sewers when in reality he has fled to the Haligtree and kidnapped Miquella near the end of the Shattering during the battle for Caelid.

Morgott mentioned all of the demigods being emboldened by the flame of ambition. Godrick wanted power and turned to war and grafting, Miquella and Malenia wanted to replace the Erdtree, Radahn wanted to wage war and be ruler, Rykard comitted blashpemy against the Golden Order and Ranni turned her back against the Erdtree and was assisting Rykard. Mogh wasn't mentioned because Morgott genuinely thought that he was still guarding the Frenzied Flame and that he had no ambitions.

Edit: I want to stress that this is just my theory and could very well be far from the truth. But I don't see any other reasons. Sure Morgott could just be biased towards the Omens considering he is one but he's also extremely dedicated to the Golden Order and protecting Leyndell. I guess the only other reason is that Mogh was never actually considered a 'demigod' by anyone and Morgott only mentioned the demigods.

[Archdeacon Monseigneur]

Messaggio originale di MarkQWERTY:

My theory is that he has no idea what Mogh is actually doing. We see an illusion of Mogh in the sewers guarding the path to the Frenzied Flame but it's also sealed away by Morgott.

I believe that Morgott told Mogh to stay down in the sewers as an extra layer of security to the Frenzied Flame because he knew how dangerous the Three Fingers were. However, because of how outraged Mogh was at the fact that he was sealed away for being an Omen and wanted to do his own thing like the other demigods, he abandoned his post and instead left an illusion down there.

This fooled Morgott into believing that Mogh is still down in the sewers when in reality he has fled to the Haligtree and kidnapped Miquella near the end of the Shattering during the battle for Caelid.

Morgott mentioned all of the demigods being emboldened by the flame of ambition. Godrick wanted power and turned to war and grafting, Miquella and Malenia wanted to replace the Erdtree, Radahn wanted to wage war and be ruler, Rykard comitted blashpemy against the Golden Order and Ranni turned her back against the Erdtree and was assisting Rykard. Mogh wasn't mentioned because Morgott genuinely thought that he was still guarding the Frenzied Flame and that he had no ambitions.

that's actually a pretty good take.
maybe he somehow tricked Morgott through this illusion of his.
whats more, is that this illusion doesn't seem to be "gifted" like the real Mohg is. he indeed does seem like a past version of Mohg, which is evident by the fact that the Mohg in the sewers doesn't have wings and can't fly.

the fact that his body double is still occupying the sewers would also help remove the suspicion that he kidnapped Miquella.

[Mander]

Messaggio originale di JaggSauce:

Messaggio originale di Mander:

Morgott is the dutiful son: even after being mistreated for being born an Omen and spending his childhood in the sewers, he chose to uphold the values of the Golden Order, using any means possible to keep her mother’s empire from further destruction, to the point of willingly hiding himself from his subjects. In short, he chose the most thankless duty possible for him in the name of an ideal.
Meanwhile, Mohg is a self-absorbed hedonist, a heretic and an incestuous rapist, working to subvert the legacy of the Golden Order and supplant it with his dynasty.
Geez…yeah, it’s strange how Morgott never talks about his twin…

Morgott's story is really super tragic. the only one who cared for him was his father Godfrey, and he was banished by that ♥♥♥♥♥ Marika as a fail-safe precaution while she cucks godfrey to mingle with Radagon, knowing full well her meddling with the elden ring would result in the worlds utter destruction, which is where we, the Tarnished (sons and daughters of Godfrey) come in.

the only (main) characters i had any sympathy for throughout the game was Rennala, Godfrey, Morgott and Radahn.

Not necessarily only sons and daughter or even knights: the tarnished as a whole are a lot more diversified than that. Yeah, Godfrey was exiled with his 16 knights (the Crucible Knights) and in game we found 12 of them (I think).
A tarnished is anyone not born in the Lands Between who crossed the fog because he or she was chosen by the grace of the Greater Will. No blood ties to Godfrey and his knights required (it’s a possibility ofc, but it’s not required and can be an headcanon for your PC). There are plenty of lands outside the Lands Between in Elden Ring: the motherland of the Kayden mercenaries, for example.
More interesting imo, is trying to understand the reason why the light of grace stays with a Tarnished after he or she arrives in the Land Between and keep on guiding them (or leave them). It is because of potential? Or pure ambition? Is it by favour?

[Archdeacon Monseigneur]

Messaggio originale di Mander:

Messaggio originale di JaggSauce:

Morgott's story is really super tragic. the only one who cared for him was his father Godfrey, and he was banished by that ♥♥♥♥♥ Marika as a fail-safe precaution while she cucks godfrey to mingle with Radagon, knowing full well her meddling with the elden ring would result in the worlds utter destruction, which is where we, the Tarnished (sons and daughters of Godfrey) come in.

the only (main) characters i had any sympathy for throughout the game was Rennala, Godfrey, Morgott and Radahn.

Not necessarily only sons and daughter or even knights: the tarnished as a whole are a lot more diversified than that. Yeah, Godfrey was exiled with his 16 knights (the Crucible Knights) and in game we found 12 of them (I think).
A tarnished is anyone not born in the Lands Between who crossed the fog because he or she was chosen by the grace of the Greater Will. No blood ties to Godfrey and his knights required (it’s a possibility ofc, but it’s not required and can be an headcanon for your PC). There are plenty of lands outside the Lands Between in Elden Ring: the motherland of the Kayden mercenaries, for example.
More interesting imo, is trying to understand the reason why the light of grace stays with a Tarnished after he or she arrives in the Land Between and keep on guiding them (or leave them). It is because of potential? Or pure ambition? Is it by favour?

m8 Melina literally gives exposition for the Tarnished in her dialogue.
Marika deliberately banished Godfrey and his kin with the specific intention of allowing them to come back to the lands between to fix the world if it should break apart.
her obsession with Radagon is literally the reason Godfrey and his kind were banished to begin with.
something along the lines of "you will be cast out of the lands between where you will live and die, and then i'll give your life back once that happens"

paraphrasing here of course, because i can't remember the particular dialogue, but this is explained in the game very clearly. the guidance of grace is basically Marika's work to make sure we, the tarnished, can save the world.

[Mander]

Messaggio originale di JaggSauce:

Messaggio originale di Franz:

@JaggSauce: Miquella was cursed to forever be an infant, he could be technically older than Mogh.
Morgott also has his own secret police that hunts down Tarnished (which I believe are Godfrey's men, not necessarily children).

you are correct, however, Miquella is also one of the wisest of the demi gods in the lore. despite him being cursed with eternal childhood he is by far the most intelligent of them all, the most ambitious and the most "good" demi god there is (even Ranni can't compete with his generosity).

Miquella had a plan before Mohg came along to ruin it all. he was going to supplant the objectively flawed golden order and replace it with a primordial golden order. he was gonna cure his sister Malenia of her rot disease. the reason he cocooned himself was because he either wanted to cleanse himself of his childhood curse or to sacrifice himself in order to turn the haligtree into an erdtree... an erdtree that wasn't under the thrall of the great will aka the two fingers.

I’ve to admit Miquella bugs me. Everyone kneels and swears up and down on how “good Miquella is” and how “beautiful he is” and how “beloved he is” and how “rightful he is”.
I’m not saying he is evil or a degenerate as Mohg was, nor I’m negating the power he wielded (enough to build a copy of the Elder Tree and keep it hidden from the Greater Will!), but considering the family he comes from, I would be extremely cautious in joining the Miquella Fanclub.
Let’s say that, should we discover Miquella facilitated his renown thanks to his St. Trina disguise, maybe even dream violating people, I wouldn’t be that surprised.
It’s a FroSoft game after all: everything that is good comes by accident at most.

[Archdeacon Monseigneur]

Messaggio originale di Mander:

Messaggio originale di JaggSauce:

you are correct, however, Miquella is also one of the wisest of the demi gods in the lore. despite him being cursed with eternal childhood he is by far the most intelligent of them all, the most ambitious and the most "good" demi god there is (even Ranni can't compete with his generosity).

Miquella had a plan before Mohg came along to ruin it all. he was going to supplant the objectively flawed golden order and replace it with a primordial golden order. he was gonna cure his sister Malenia of her rot disease. the reason he cocooned himself was because he either wanted to cleanse himself of his childhood curse or to sacrifice himself in order to turn the haligtree into an erdtree... an erdtree that wasn't under the thrall of the great will aka the two fingers.

I’ve to admit Miquella bugs me. Everyone kneels and swears up and down on how “good Miquella is” and how “beautiful he is” and how “beloved he is” and how “rightful he is”.
I’m not saying he is evil or a degenerate as Mohg was, nor I’m negating the power he wielded (enough to build a copy of the Elder Tree and keep it hidden from the Greater Will!), but considering the family he comes from, I would be extremely cautious in joining the Miquella Fanclub.
Let’s say that, should we discover Miquella facilitated his renown thanks to his St. Trina disguise, maybe even dream violating people, I wouldn’t be that surprised.
It’s a FroSoft game after all: everything that is good comes by accident at most.

alright let me rephrase then; Miquella is the most ripe apple in a bunch of rotten apples. literally and figuratively.

its probably the reason his followers remain stalwart despite their lord having been gone for who knows how long.
i mean they all casually pull an allah huakba on the player, that's how dedicated they are.

[Mander]

Messaggio originale di JaggSauce:

Messaggio originale di Mander:

Not necessarily only sons and daughter or even knights: the tarnished as a whole are a lot more diversified than that. Yeah, Godfrey was exiled with his 16 knights (the Crucible Knights) and in game we found 12 of them (I think).
A tarnished is anyone not born in the Lands Between who crossed the fog because he or she was chosen by the grace of the Greater Will. No blood ties to Godfrey and his knights required (it’s a possibility ofc, but it’s not required and can be an headcanon for your PC). There are plenty of lands outside the Lands Between in Elden Ring: the motherland of the Kayden mercenaries, for example.
More interesting imo, is trying to understand the reason why the light of grace stays with a Tarnished after he or she arrives in the Land Between and keep on guiding them (or leave them). It is because of potential? Or pure ambition? Is it by favour?

m8 Melina literally gives exposition for the Tarnished in her dialogue.
Marika deliberately banished Godfrey and his kin with the specific intention of allowing them to come back to the lands between to fix the world if it should break apart.
her obsession with Radagon is literally the reason Godfrey and his kind were banished to begin with.
something along the lines of "you will be cast out of the lands between where you will live and die, and then i'll give your life back once that happens"

paraphrasing here of course, because i can't remember the particular dialogue, but this is explained in the game very clearly. the guidance of grace is basically Marika's work to make sure we, the tarnished, can save the world.

Melina's Dialogue at the 3rd church of Marika:
"Spoken echoes of Queen Marika linger here, as well. Shall I share them with you?
Very well. In Marika's own words. My Lord, and thy warriors. I divest each of thee of thy grace. With thine eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the Lands Between. Ye will wage war in a land afar, where ye will live, and die."

At the church of Pilgrimage:
"In Marika's own words.
Then, after thy death, I will give back what I once claimed.
Return to the Lands Between, wage war, and brandish the Elden Ring.
Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord. Lord Godfrey."

Nowhere is stated that only sons and daughters or knights of Godfrey can become tarnished: I believe you're using a cut dialogue to support this theory (the one with Godfrey as the opening narrator at the beginning of the game). This one I believe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMu7FvNP2Z4&ab_channel=SekiroDubi

Cut content can hardly be used to support head-canon, and moreover, the existence of different races to chose from for our PC negates this particular theory. Explaining how, for example, a draconian or a nightkin became a knight of Godfrey requires stretching what we know of the lore a little too much, imo. And also explaining how a descendent of such a knight preserves the racial trait of his or her origin through the generations.
It’s a beautiful headcanon to have our PC as a knight of Godfrey or a descendent of one, I admit. It’s just not the only possible origin, especially after the Greater Will began to weave its plans to have the Tarnished supplant Marika as the new god of the Lands Between (as per Ser Gideon Ofnir dialogues).

[Archdeacon Monseigneur]

Messaggio originale di Mander:

Messaggio originale di JaggSauce:

m8 Melina literally gives exposition for the Tarnished in her dialogue.
Marika deliberately banished Godfrey and his kin with the specific intention of allowing them to come back to the lands between to fix the world if it should break apart.
her obsession with Radagon is literally the reason Godfrey and his kind were banished to begin with.
something along the lines of "you will be cast out of the lands between where you will live and die, and then i'll give your life back once that happens"

paraphrasing here of course, because i can't remember the particular dialogue, but this is explained in the game very clearly. the guidance of grace is basically Marika's work to make sure we, the tarnished, can save the world.

Melina's Dialogue at the 3rd church of Marika:
"Spoken echoes of Queen Marika linger here, as well. Shall I share them with you?
Very well. In Marika's own words. My Lord, and thy warriors. I divest each of thee of thy grace. With thine eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the Lands Between. Ye will wage war in a land afar, where ye will live, and die."

At the church of Pilgrimage:
"In Marika's own words.
Then, after thy death, I will give back what I once claimed.
Return to the Lands Between, wage war, and brandish the Elden Ring.
Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord. Lord Godfrey."

Nowhere is stated that only sons and daughters or knights of Godfrey can become tarnished: I believe you're using a cut dialogue to support this theory (the one with Godfrey as the opening narrator at the beginning of the game). This one I believe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMu7FvNP2Z4&ab_channel=SekiroDubi

Cut content can hardly be used to support head-canon, and moreover, the existence of different races to chose from for our PC negates this particular theory. Explaining how, for example, a draconian or a nightkin became a knight of Godfrey requires stretching what we know of the lore a little too much, imo. And also explaining how a descendent of such a knight preserves the racial trait of his or her origin through the generations.
It’s a beautiful headcanon to have our PC as a knight of Godfrey or a descendent of one, I admit. It’s just not the only possible origin, especially after the Greater Will began to weave its plans to have the Tarnished supplant Marika as the new god of the Lands Between (as per Ser Gideon Ofnir dialogues).

No i was referring to the part you quoted in the first part of your response there.
"divest" means to "take away" to "deprive" to "rob".
numerous NPC's throughout the game will ask you of your opinon on the two fingers throughout the game, which is a hint that they can't be trusted to actually guide you with clear selfless purpose but rather for their own benefit.
hence why they suddenly become completely silent in the later part of the game, as you come a bit too close to success for their comfort.

Also, everything regarding Gideon's final decision is still a complete mystery. all we can do is speculate on why he did what he did.

[❛❛Vénttea❜❜]

Messaggio originale di JaggSauce:

i'm pretty sure kidnapping (with the intent to groom, fiddle and corrupt) a demi-god counts as an act of war. the fact Miquella is an infant by the time he is snatched makes it much worse in my eyes.
Mohg is a disgusting degenerate.

Difference is that this bears no problem to Morgott, Miquella being missing is a blessing in disguise to him as he accounts both twins as traitors to the throne, this only poses as a problem to Malenia and no one knows that Mohg has kidnapped Miquella, not even Morgott would know this.

[Sabaithal]

Messaggio originale di ❛❛Liechée❜❜:

Messaggio originale di JaggSauce:

i'm pretty sure kidnapping (with the intent to groom, fiddle and corrupt) a demi-god counts as an act of war. the fact Miquella is an infant by the time he is snatched makes it much worse in my eyes.
Mohg is a disgusting degenerate.

Difference is that this bears no problem to Morgott, Miquella being missing is a blessing in disguise to him as he accounts both twins as traitors to the throne, this only poses as a problem to Malenia and no one knows that Mohg has kidnapped Miquella, not even Morgott would know this.

Also I doubt Morgott would have any sympathy toward Malenia, who was going about a conquest of several different regions, nearly killed Godrick, then utterly destroyed Caelid (which if the name is any indication was supposed to be a paradise) in her conflict with Radahn later on.

[Archdeacon Monseigneur]

Messaggio originale di ❛❛Liechée❜❜:

Messaggio originale di JaggSauce:

i'm pretty sure kidnapping (with the intent to groom, fiddle and corrupt) a demi-god counts as an act of war. the fact Miquella is an infant by the time he is snatched makes it much worse in my eyes.
Mohg is a disgusting degenerate.

Difference is that this bears no problem to Morgott, Miquella being missing is a blessing in disguise to him as he accounts both twins as traitors to the throne, this only poses as a problem to Malenia and no one knows that Mohg has kidnapped Miquella, not even Morgott would know this.

dude, Miquella missing is common knowledge in the lore, his followers and Malenia and even Gideon are aware that he went missing, although they don't know the precise cause until we, the players, break the news to Gideon.

EDIT: anyway, i've been up all night, i need some sleep. hope to see more input on this thread when i wake up as i am a sucker for lore.

[❛❛Vénttea❜❜]

Messaggio originale di JaggSauce:

dude, Miquella missing is common knowledge in the lore, his followers and Malenia and even Gideon are aware that he went missing, although they don't know the precise cause until we, the players, break the news to Gideon.

You are misreading what I mean. I said no one knows who kidnapped Miquella, the truth is only revealed when we mentioned it to Gideon when we witnessed Mohg himself with Miquella.