Terrible implementation of the Great Runes.

[Deepy]

So, I've just beaten the game and I must say I think I used the great runes system only once in the whole game.

It has such a bad implementation... the idea behind them is fine I guess, giving you buffs by using arc runes but to take them away after you die with no option of getting it back (without using another rune arc) is such an absurd thing to do in a game when you are constantly dying.

So basically they force you to:

1) Save and quit before dying to not lose it.
2) Play in a very careful way to not die (which is absurd)
3) Use a rune arc again. <------- method intended by the creators of the game.

Seems logical but number 3 doesn't work since nobody cares to do it, if a player needs a limited item to keep using something they will stop using it all together and most of us did exactly this, beat the game without ever using this system.

There was a very easy way to fix this, if you reach your runes after you die you can restore the great rune power too.
Why was this so hard to implement?
Would it make the game easier? No.
Forcing you to use rune arcs just creates an inconvenient to the player that would make it not use it completely, if you lock something behind a limited system chances are the player is going to ignore it all together.

Also the most interesting buffs are locked into very late into the game when they actually don't even matter anymore, like the recovery hp one.

What are your thoughts on this and did you use them in your gameplay?

EDIT: I added a poll just for fun:

https://take.quiz-maker.com/poll4306977x9FC24B10-136

[Lunacy]

I think they're great. They aren't accessed immediately so you don't feel like you're losing stuff for dying, but gaining power for using an item. Unlike in dark souls 3 where you feel like you take a 23% health penalty when you lose your ember.

[MundM]

Publicado originalmente por Winter:

So far the votes show some very interesting results although there are very few so take them with a grain of salt:

Did you use the Great Runes system in your first Elden Ring playthrough?

1) Didn't know about them. 5 votes 25%
2) Yes, as much as I could. (more than 40) 5 votes 25%
3) Only to test them. 4 votes 20%
4) Only a few times. (less than 5 times) 3 votes 15%
5) Yes, but not much. (less than 20) 3 votes 15%

Which means that from 20 players 11 basically didnt engage with the whole Rune System in their first playthrough.

What are these questions suppose to achieve?

[Deepy]

Publicado originalmente por MundM:

Publicado originalmente por Winter:

So far the votes show some very interesting results although there are very few so take them with a grain of salt:

Did you use the Great Runes system in your first Elden Ring playthrough?

1) Didn't know about them. 5 votes 25%
2) Yes, as much as I could. (more than 40) 5 votes 25%
3) Only to test them. 4 votes 20%
4) Only a few times. (less than 5 times) 3 votes 15%
5) Yes, but not much. (less than 20) 3 votes 15%

Which means that from 20 players 11 basically didnt engage with the whole Rune System in their first playthrough.

What are these questions suppose to achieve?

Nirvana.

[Neon Robot]

I think for me the biggest failure with the great runes in my opinion is that for the most part, most of the Great Runes aren't really going to see much if any use. Runes like Malenia's would be great for earlier in the game especially when exploring dungeons but by the time you actually go and fight Malenia you've likely beaten most if not all the other content in the game outside of farming.

You simply aren't going to need them by that point.

I know at least in my social group none of us used Great Runes outside of fighting a few bosses we found particularly hard for our builds or in general. The Runes are neat but never really evolve into a useful or meaningful mechanic. As it stands it seems like our behavior is pretty par for the course for everyone else. You might use a Great Rune occasionally but for the most part they're just a game mechanic that kind of...is there.

I get that this is mostly what the devs intended but it really feels like a waste. There's a lot of space for them to do interesting things with it and there are runes I wish I had when I was taking on certain dungeons or areas. But like I said, by the time I could actually use the rune they were no longer necessary.

They probably could've just left them out.

At least with humanity you get so much of it and it is readily available that it's far easier to freely use. Also, it doesn't come with differing powers. I just defaulted to Godrick's rune for the most part because I already had it and it was decent. All of the late game runes are cool but like I said, I really didn't have much of the game left by the time I got them.

[Incomparable Groan]

Okay, so first they work pretty much the same way as humanities, embers whatever from previous souls games. The difference being that you can pick your buff this time around.

I prefer this over humanities, the only drawback being the lack of viable Great Runes. You'll either use Godrick's, or Morgott's. The fact that Godrick's is the most powerful during low-mid levels, and also the first one you'll generally pick up was a bit of a weird decision as well.

Finally, you're awarded Rune Arcs for invading and killing hosts. The limited supply in the world is to incentivise you to do just that.

If you balance PVE with doing invasions, you're generally going to be pretty stocked up, tbh.

[Kain]

If anything I wish Runes had levels of activation, each time you consumed an arc you unlocked another buff, for example Radhans after using an arc a second time you got a boost on fp and a third time you got another boost for magic damage. So it would take 3 arcs to restore a rune to it's full power, but if you die, you start from scratch

[Neon Robot]

Publicado originalmente por Tarnished and Maidenless:

Okay, so first they work pretty much the same way as humanities, embers whatever from previous souls games. The difference being that you can pick your buff this time around.

I prefer this over humanities, the only drawback being the lack of viable Great Runes. You'll either use Godrick's, or Morgott's. The fact that Godrick's is the most powerful during low-mid levels, and also the first one you'll generally pick up was a bit of a weird decision as well.

Finally, you're awarded Rune Arcs for invading and killing hosts. The limited supply in the world is to incentivise you to do just that.

If you balance PVE with doing invasions, you're generally going to be pretty stocked up, tbh.

The problem really just comes down to implementation and preference. Too many Great Runes really only become a "thing" at the very latest stages of the game. Far beyond when you'll usually need them or want to use them. Godrick's is really the only Great Rune you'll use and honestly ones like Malenia's or Rykard's are the kind you want to use exploring the world or taking on certain bosses but in order to get them you'll already typically be beyond that point in the game. Humanity/Ember's are something you're encouraged to use and are fairly easy to farm. Outside of PVP you have a set number of Rune Arcs that are feasible and are you really going to go out of your way to farm them.

I mean I only used my Rune Arcs against a few specific bosses, I only ever used Godrick's rune, and eventually I reached a point where the Rune Arc just didn't contribute very much at all. Perhaps if you got a range of runes earlier on or they carried over they'd be more interesting or usable. As it stands they're just kind of...there. I mean does anyone really consider them to be something truly "valuable"?

Hell, I beat Malenia without using any great runes. And by the time I got her great rune I'd killed pretty much every other boss and big fight in the game. Her rune seemed neat but really what's left by that point in the game?

[olc51322]

has anyone had an issue where they can't equip Great Runes in NG+? It tells me I exceeded inventory when I try to activate. I already lost two trying to activate them. There is also no menu option to equip them when I rest

[the Witch-King of Angmar]

I feel like it's especially dumb that you can't switch great runes without wasting a rune arc, like at least refund the arc lol

[Apex Jaggi]

Publicado originalmente por HighLanderPony:

So do you agree that farming rune arcs is fun and should be a part of the game? If so, how's busywork fun?

Do you think that dying to fall damage or being afflicted with scarlet rot are fun things to do? The option exists to farm rune arcs for people that die a lot and/or feel like they need to farm them. It doesn't even have to feel like a chore if you're happy to be summoned to help other people with bosses or enjoy invading.

Don't know why you think Elden Ring has to hold your hand and make things easy for you, it's supposed to be a hard game with punishing mechanics, get over it.

[ПТ на фокус]

Publicado originalmente por Winter:

There was a very easy way to fix this, if you reach your runes after you die you can restore the great rune power too.
https://take.quiz-maker.com/poll4306977x9FC24B10-136

In this case, I would spend less than five out of two hundred arcs for the entire playthrough so they would have to be made a much rarer resource.
Have you ever used consumables other than estus? Many of them are much rarer than arches, give less and do not last forever. Maybe you're just too afraid to lose and the fact that the number of rune arcs in your inventory has decreased reminds you of your defeat?

[Kobi Blade]

Works same as previous games, I have no complains, then again I rarely die.

[Cooperal]

The buffs provided from Radahn and Morgott's great runes should be partially flat numbers instead of being entirely percentage-based, to promote a more balanced set of choices before attaining late-game stats.
The percentage means that characters who invest in Vigor (or mind/endurance for Radahn) will still benefit the most, not dissimilar from their current implementation, while the flat part of the buff means that a decent benefit is still guaranteed even without the high stat investment.

Either that or swap the effect of Godrick's rune around with a later rune. I don't want to see the effect itself actually nerfed because I think it is in the right place for an average endgame level 125-150. But until then the previusly mentioned runes just aren't good enough.
You can compare how much HP/FP/stamina they all give, but the practical uses of Godrick's rune far exceed that. Multiple of the boosted stats also offer resistance bonuses, and it even gives you more equip load to work with, further boosting the value of granted HP than can be seen at first glance.

I think swapping Godrick's effects with Morgott's sounds reasonable. Or maybe Rykard. Rykard's rune effect sounds too cool to give out that early, however people will hopefully begin to understand the importance of choice when their new favourite crutch has zero application in most boss battles. Being that they both have their own way of growing their power from the dead, it doesn't sound like too much of a stretch from a lore standpoint either.

[DIRTY DEEDS DONE DIRT CHEAP]

Completely disagree, it's the same system from DS1 to DS3... instead of powering up with let's say, embers for instance, and just get some more HP, you can now choose what type of buff you get with the rune arc, the system works great, I used a lot the rune of Godrick at the start of the game as it helped giving you 5 levels in each category (40 levels for free), and then when I reached the mid game I started to use Radahn's rune and then Morgott, the system felt very rewarding and the power of the runes was incredible, for exploring the open world Rykard's great rune was excellent.

Only somebody that never played a souls or never used the consumables would classify this post as the truth, it's not entirely true

[DIRTY DEEDS DONE DIRT CHEAP]

Publicado originalmente por HighLanderPony:

Yeah, garbage system. Farming the arcs is just busywork. Yet another consumable you're discouraged from using because "you might need it later". One day, devs will figure out how to do consumables in a way that their use is encouraged instead. One day. (I've an idea but I doubt anyone gives a crap.)

I used one out of the 45 or so I got through 150+ hours of very thorough, methodical play, then saw that I lose it for good when I die and that made me never use one again because "I might need it later" and it's a waste using it against a boss that I could die to in about 10 secs.

Please don't troll on the forums, exploring the game offline gives you something like 60 runes if I'm not mistaken, maybe more... Playing online and getting them for invading is a reward to make sure people actually wanna invade others and keep that part of the gameplay alive, if you refused to get 40 levels for free because you are so scared of losing them just for one consumable that the game throws at you later in the game, your loss