Queen Marika's Ultimate Goal [Spoilers]

[Lantantan]

TLDR: Queen Marika intended to release the Frenzied Flame.

First of all, Marika is clearly no longer friends with the Greater Will, being literally crucified on the Elden Ring. Likely part of this falling out, we'll explore if the Frenzied Flame might be Marika's ultimate goal.

Melina
First of our witnesses is Melina, our "Finger Maiden" is not a finger maiden, an agent of the Two Fingers and the Greater Will, but a "Kindling Maiden" as described by her own knife. This likely daughter of Queen Marika/Radagon who intimately knows or hears Marika's words tells us she reject her mother's designs and she urges us to choose one of the Elden Lord endings. Melina also VERY passionately urges you NOT to choose the Frenzied Flame, possibily her and clearly Vyke's burns are from the FF. Marika also doesn't want Ranni's ending, sending her Assassins to kill Ranni's companions during the game. To me this strongly suggests of the 6 possible endings, Queen Marika intended the Frenzied Flame ending to happen.

Gideon
Our second witness is Gideon, The All Knowing. Foremost of the forsaken and once seeking to become Elden Lord himself. After defeating him, his armor description tells us: "But when Gideon glimpsed into the will of Queen Marika, he shuddered in fear." He also tries to stop us from becoming the Elden Lord and tells us no forsaken can become lord. to me this sounds like Gideon thinks Marika does not want any forsaken to become HER Elden Lord. This makes sense to me because even if you modify the Elden Ring Marika remains immortal and enslaved, even if the Elden Ring might be possibly severed from the Greater Will/Beast.

Finger Reader
Finally there's a Finger Reader who after reading your hands recoils after seeing the future in your fingers. "You will face wrath, then madness, and finally, chaos." This is pretty speculative but I think, that because Marika created all us forsaken, it is the future she intended for us that the Finger Reader reads in our fingers.

[Lantantan]

Publicado originalmente por < blank >:

I think in the new OP you said Marika when you meant Melina at the very end FYI

Ah yes, Ty! still working on the refined OP. Thank you and all others for your thoughts.

[Nyah]

good point Op, it may be the reason why Godfrey was banished, Marika wanted him to embrace the frenzied flame and he didnt accept maybe?

[Tiasmoon]

Publicado originalmente por < blank >:

Also as a counter point to my own previous post - even if Marika is utilizing powers from an outer god other than the frenzied flame, it doesn't rule out a relationship with the FF - Marika as repeatedly shown to be fickle and willing to use and then discard anyone to achieve her goals - god, demigod, and tarnished alike !

Just saying, but without Marika there probably wouldnt be any Grace. Not sure why you hate her that much, but all signs point towards Marika being the only real reason why we have a fighting chance at all.

No idea where the idea of frenzied flame being linked to her even come from.

Publicado originalmente por Lantantan:

Melina explicitly said she does NOT want to follow her mother's designs. She also passionately does NOT want the Frenzied Flame ending to happen.

What she says is closer along the lines of ''she doesnt have the exact same mindset'' rather then ''200% opposed to Marika's plan''

[Lantantan]

I have updated the post! But I just remembered another witness! So I'm gona back in after I find the quote.

[Lantantan]

Publicado originalmente por OdGrom:

good point Op, it may be the reason why Godfrey was banished, Marika wanted him to embrace the frenzied flame and he didnt accept maybe?

Oe I hadn't considered Godfrey's motivations yet. First thing that comes to mind is that Marika's first Lord sure seemed eager to reject his old identity as "Lord" in favor for his new one as "Warrior".

[Target]

Publicado originalmente por Lantantan:

Publicado originalmente por OdGrom:

good point Op, it may be the reason why Godfrey was banished, Marika wanted him to embrace the frenzied flame and he didnt accept maybe?

Oe I hadn't considered Godfrey's motivations yet. First thing that comes to mind is that Marika's first Lord sure seemed eager to reject his old identity as "Lord" in favor for his new one as "Warrior".

You could just as easily say he was reluctant to give up the title of lord, and only did so when he was half dead.

[Lantantan]

Publicado originalmente por < blank >:

She is literally a tyrant warlord that commits genocide, betrays and usurps the powers of her gods to attain immortality and ascend to divinity herself before shattering the physical and metaphysical realms to put her children in a last-demigod-standing cage match

Much of this is explained in her own words via Melina's recitations

any goodness in Marika seems to have been passed off to her aspect Radagon - she a bad ♥♥♥♥♥

Yeah pretty much all of this, though I'm not sure "Leal hound of the Order" Radagon, servant of the soul eating cosmic leech can be described as "good". I'd argue that a lot of Marika's extreme actions were driven by her desperate need to find an alternative, or break free from the Elden Ring and the Greater Will.

[Lantantan]

Publicado originalmente por Target:

Publicado originalmente por Lantantan:

Oe I hadn't considered Godfrey's motivations yet. First thing that comes to mind is that Marika's first Lord sure seemed eager to reject his old identity as "Lord" in favor for his new one as "Warrior".

You could just as easily say he was reluctant to give up the title of lord, and only did so when he was half dead.

True, or he could even just believe only our strength made us suitable for Lordship, not him. So I guess it's hard to gleam any relevant cosmic insight from barbarian man.

[Tiasmoon]

Publicado originalmente por Lantantan:

Melina also VERY passionately urges you NOT to choose the frenzied flame.

According to her it means the death of all life, without the possibility of it being born again. Apparently even for someone with ties to Destined Death, that one is going a bit too far.

Publicado originalmente por Lantantan:

Marika also doesnt want Ranni's ending, sending her Assassins to kill Ranni's companions during the game. To me this strongly suggests of the 6 possible endings, Queen Marika intended the Frenzied Flame ending to happen.

On what do you base Marika sending the assassins ? Its nowhere even hinted at.
How is she even to send anyone to begin with when she's crucified in the sealed Erdtree?

Publicado originalmente por Lantantan:

Gideon
He also tries to stop us from becoming the Elden Lord and tells us no forsaken can become lord.

Perhaps he wanted to warn the player. That becoming the Elden Lord wouldnt help Marika. Only endings where the player doesnt become an Elden Lord are Ranni's ending and Frenzied Flame. So why would Marika be against Ranni's plan and send assassin's to kill her friends?

Publicado originalmente por Lantantan:

Finger Reader
Finally there's a Finger Reader who after reading your hands recoils after seeing the future in your fingers. I'll edit in the quote once I find it.

Finger Readers cant be trusted.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2789621025

That aside, they give vague hints on the next story based objectives and goals for the player. They dont have hidden lore meaning behind their words.

Way I see it this theory is reaching pretty hard. If you want a better speculative summary, try this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/tiaf36/main_story_marika_explained_lore_spoilers/

[Lantantan]

Publicado originalmente por < blank >:

True, she takes desperate and extreme actions but they are driven by a rational goal - which is part of why I can't get my head around her supporting the frenzied flame and the 'chaos consume the world' crew

I imagine that when being immortal, enslaved and crucified for all eternity, it's perfectly rational to wish for any ending. Indeed I might well insist on an ending that inflicts the maximum harm on that thing I hold responsible.

But I can't really prove there isn't some 7th ending Marika would prefer. All I can do is make a convincing case (to me at least) why of the 6 existing endings, she's leaning to the FF one.

[PuppYofDOOM]

Nah bro marika didnt create us. We just infected with whatever is in that land.

My character is a samuraii and washed up on the shore after his nioh 2 nerfs killed his build.

[Crowley42]

I disagree with the OP for multiple reasons. My main point is that Marika was enslaved for trying to break the elden ring, it was only then that she called upon us tarnished. Why would she then seek to plunge the world into chaos via the tarnished, if that's not what her original plan was to begin with?

Also, the tarnished are seemingly hand-picked by Marika, she only picks people with great potential. None of the tarnished we encounter (except us and maybe Vyke, though even that is uncertain) would've chosen to imbibe the Frenzied Flame, not Gideon, not Fia, not the Dung Eater, not Godfrey, certainly not Goldmask. Marika doesn't give us a goal, she merely revives us, would she not have tried to direct us towards the Frenzied Flame in some way? Grace doesn't point towards the FF, the only thing that calls you towards the FF are the three fingers themselves.


If Marika would've wanted to plunge the world into chaos, there would be at least some indication of that. To me it seems she wishes to break the current order, not destroy everything.

[Crowley42]

Publicado originalmente por Lantantan:

I imagine that when being immortal, enslaved and crucified for all eternity, it's perfectly rational to wish for any ending. Indeed I might well insist on an ending that inflicts the maximum harm on that thing I hold responsible.

But I can't really prove there isn't some 7th ending Marika would prefer. All I can do is make a convincing case (to me at least) why of the 6 existing endings, she's leaning to the FF one.

But Marika made us tarnished right when she got crucified, not after she's been crucified for an eternity.

[Lantantan]

All good questions, not sure I have an answer to them.

Publicado originalmente por Tiasmoon:

On what do you base Marika sending the assassins ? Its nowhere even hinted at.
How is she even to send anyone to begin with when she's crucified in the sealed Erdtree?

Having plotted with Ranni to create god slaying knives for her personal band of Numen assassins, I see no problem with her having planned the disposal of Ranni, in case the Two Finger's assassins failed to dispose of Ranni.
But I suppose is also possible that by now Melina controls the Black knives, indeed she controlled them all along and might be the one trying to get rid of Ranni to push us to the Death Lord ending. Is that what you're suggesting?

Publicado originalmente por Tiasmoon:

Finger Readers cant be trusted.

What do you mean with this screenshot? I'm curious!

Publicado originalmente por Tiasmoon:

Way I see it this theory is reaching pretty hard. If you want a better speculative summary, try this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/tiaf36/main_story_marika_explained_lore_spoilers/

Fair. Yes I'm trying to build on most of that established lore, which keeps leaving the question of Marika's true goal unclear. And yes i'm reaching, to see if this hunch is tenable. Thank you for joining!

[0wnz0r]

i dont think she wanted to destroy everythin, i jus think she wanted liberty from the greater will