Why Sir Gideon Ofnir did not stop Godfrey ?

[Uboa]

while stopping us from becoming elden lord ?

[Sabatoc]

Because both of you, like all other Tarnished, aspire to become Elden Lord. You are competition.

You both benefit from one another. He passes on crucial knowledge of the Great Runes and seeks passage into the Erdtree. He's using you, even tries to get rid of you by sending his assassin once you procure one half of the Haligtree medallion.

The signs are there. He's not too fond of having you around the Roundtable hold, but he is at an impasse. He needs a useful lackey.

You are the perfect tool but also an adversary to him. Why put himself into unnecessary danger when he could just use you? Afterall, you're clearing the way to the Erdtree for him.

It makes sense that he ambushes you in the way he does.

[Uboa]

Originally posted by Sabatoc:

Because both of you, like all other Tarnished, aspire to become Elden Lord. You are competition.

You both benefit from one another. He passes on crucial knowledge of the Great Runes and seeks passage into the Erdtree. He's using you, even tries to get rid of you by sending his assassin once you procure one half of the Haligtree medallion.

The signs are there. He's not too fond of having you around the Roundtable hold, but he is at an impasse. He needs a useful lackey.

You are the perfect tool but also an adversary to him. Why put himself into unnecessary danger when he could just use you? Afterall, you're clearing the way to the Erdtree for him.

It makes sense that he ambushes you in the way he does.

but this guy really think he can take the elden lord throne from Godfrey after killing us ?

[Sabatoc]

Originally posted by Uboa:

Originally posted by Sabatoc:

Because both of you, like all other Tarnished, aspire to become Elden Lord. You are competition.

You both benefit from one another. He passes on crucial knowledge of the Great Runes and seeks passage into the Erdtree. He's using you, even tries to get rid of you by sending his assassin once you procure one half of the Haligtree medallion.

The signs are there. He's not too fond of having you around the Roundtable hold, but he is at an impasse. He needs a useful lackey.

You are the perfect tool but also an adversary to him. Why put himself into unnecessary danger when he could just use you? Afterall, you're clearing the way to the Erdtree for him.

It makes sense that he ambushes you in the way he does.

but this guy really think he can take the elden lord throne from Godfrey after killing us ?

Why wouldn't he? If he can put us down, that would mean he's powerful enough to see his plan through to the end. He can't do so with us still alive.

And like us on our first blind playthrough, we wouldn't know we would be facing Godfrey, the First Elden Lord at that very spot. If Gideon knew, wouldn't he have waited until we dealt with Godfrey first and then ambush us while we're exhausted from the battle?

[Lord Bob]

Maybe Godfrey arrived earlier at the throne than Gideon and Gideon is just too scared to fight him? Idk

[MingQWERTY]

Originally posted by Uboa:

Originally posted by Sabatoc:

Because both of you, like all other Tarnished, aspire to become Elden Lord. You are competition.

You both benefit from one another. He passes on crucial knowledge of the Great Runes and seeks passage into the Erdtree. He's using you, even tries to get rid of you by sending his assassin once you procure one half of the Haligtree medallion.

The signs are there. He's not too fond of having you around the Roundtable hold, but he is at an impasse. He needs a useful lackey.

You are the perfect tool but also an adversary to him. Why put himself into unnecessary danger when he could just use you? Afterall, you're clearing the way to the Erdtree for him.

It makes sense that he ambushes you in the way he does.

but this guy really think he can take the elden lord throne from Godfrey after killing us ?

I'm pretty sure he doesn't even want the Elden Throne by the end of the game. He discovered something about Marika and the Golden Order, something that scared him to his core. He suggested that the Tarnished should struggle for an eternity and not ascend to become Elden Lord.

"Knowledge begins with the recognition of one's ignorance. The realization that the search for knowledge is unending. But when Gideon glimpsed into the will of Queen Marika, he shuddered in fear.

At the end that should not be." -From his armor piece

"Queen Marika has high hopes for us. That we continue to struggle, unto eternity.".
-Sir Gideon Ofnir himself

[Flo]

Why are you saying Gideon wants to become Elden Lord? He literally says the opposite.

"Ahh, I knew you'd come. To stand before the Elden Ring. To become Elden Lord.
What a sad state of affairs.
I commend your spirit, but alas, none shall take the throne. Queen Marika has high hopes for us. That we continue to struggle. Unto eternity."

"I know... in my bones... A Tarnished cannot become a Lord. Not even you.
A man cannot kill a god..."

He's here protecting Marika.
Also, Godfrey is a Tarnished too, if you didn't know. No one knows what his goal is. He was exiled by Marika, then came back. He does seem to want the throne, but is it to keep it as is it, or to restore the order.

[Sabatoc]

Originally posted by MarkQWERTY:

Originally posted by Uboa:

but this guy really think he can take the elden lord throne from Godfrey after killing us ?

I'm pretty sure he doesn't even want the Elden Throne by the end of the game. He discovered something about Marika and the Golden Order, something that scared him to his core. He suggested that the Tarnished should struggle for an eternity and not ascend to become Elden Lord.

"Knowledge begins with the recognition of one's ignorance. The realization that the search for knowledge is unending. But when Gideon glimpsed into the will of Queen Marika, he shuddered in fear.

At the end that should not be." -From his armor piece

"Queen Marika has high hopes for us. That we continue to struggle, unto eternity.".
-Sir Gideon Ofnir himself

Very good point.

I still wonder what Sir Gideon's endgame plan was. To struggle for an eternity in a dead and dying world is hardly an existance with much meaning. All that remains is stagnation and suffering.

I guess the question is what exactly he saw through Queen Marika that frightened him. Perhaps one of the not-so-happy endings might offer clues to that.

[Sabatoc]

Originally posted by Flo:

Why are you saying Gideon wants to become Elden Lord? He literally says the opposite.

"Ahh, I knew you'd come. To stand before the Elden Ring. To become Elden Lord.
What a sad state of affairs.
I commend your spirit, but alas, none shall take the throne. Queen Marika has high hopes for us. That we continue to struggle. Unto eternity."

"I know... in my bones... A Tarnished cannot become a Lord. Not even you.
A man cannot kill a god..."

He's here protecting Marika.
Also, Godfrey is a Tarnished too, if you didn't know. No one knows what his goal is. He was exiled by Marika, then came back. He does seem to want the throne, but is it to keep it as is it, or to restore the order.

I suppose I could've worded myself a little clearer.

He doesn't want to slay Marika. He knows of your ambitions and tries to halt your progress along the way. It's once you get too close for comfort that he decides to stop you himself. If it's Marika he seeks, all he'd have to do is to follow your shadow while you pave the path for him.

[MingQWERTY]

Originally posted by Sabatoc:

Originally posted by MarkQWERTY:

I'm pretty sure he doesn't even want the Elden Throne by the end of the game. He discovered something about Marika and the Golden Order, something that scared him to his core. He suggested that the Tarnished should struggle for an eternity and not ascend to become Elden Lord.

"Knowledge begins with the recognition of one's ignorance. The realization that the search for knowledge is unending. But when Gideon glimpsed into the will of Queen Marika, he shuddered in fear.

At the end that should not be." -From his armor piece

"Queen Marika has high hopes for us. That we continue to struggle, unto eternity.".
-Sir Gideon Ofnir himself

Very good point.

I still wonder what Sir Gideon's endgame plan was. To struggle for an eternity in a dead and dying world is hardly an existance with much meaning. All that remains is stagnation and suffering.

I guess the question is what exactly he saw through Queen Marika that frightened him. Perhaps one of the not-so-happy endings might offer clues to that.

Marika became disillusioned with the Greater Will and so betrayed it. That's why we see Marika imprisoned within the Erdtree and why the Two Fingers said "Marika's trespassing demands a heavy sentence" or something along those lines.

If a Tarnished succeeded and become Elden Lord, you are basically handing control back to the Greater Will again. Marika wants to keep the Elden Ring shattered so the Greater Will will remained in a weakened state.

[Uboa]

so i wonder if he talked to Godfrey before confronting us ? Maybe Godfrey have some other plan to deal with Marika ?

[MingQWERTY]

Originally posted by Uboa:

so i wonder if he talked to Godfrey before confronting us ? Maybe Godfrey have some other plan to deal with Marika ?

If I'm not wrong, Gideon leaves the Roundtable Hold after you defeat Maliketh and then set the Rune of Death free. He knew that we would come back to Leyndell and try to access the Erdtree again. I don't think he even knew that Godfrey was there in the first place. He was just trying to stop our progress because he knew that we are extremely powerful and successful compared to the other Tarnished.

[Sabatoc]

Originally posted by MarkQWERTY:

Originally posted by Uboa:

so i wonder if he talked to Godfrey before confronting us ? Maybe Godfrey have some other plan to deal with Marika ?

If I'm not wrong, Gideon leaves the Roundtable Hold after you defeat Maliketh and then set the Rune of Death free. He knew that we would come back to Leyndell and try to access the Erdtree again. I don't think he even knew that Godfrey was there in the first place. He was just trying to stop our progress because he knew that we are extremely powerful and successful compared to the other Tarnished.

After taking a sneak-peek into the Elden Ring Wiki, this is what I found.

"In time, the Roundtable lost its glory, becoming little more than a refuge for wayward Tarnished, with ever fewer finding their way to the Roundtable. At some point, Gideon managed to glimpse the true will of the imprisoned Queen Marika, and shuddered from what he learned. While ostensibly still seeking to become Elden Lord, Gideon in truth lost faith in the Two Fingers, and grew to believe that they had long since lost their purpose. "

"Before the Tarnished can reach the Erdtree, they are confronted by Gideon. Gideon reveals that he believes Queen Marika wishes for the Tarnished to struggle for all eternity, as he believed that what he had glimpsed of her will; that she desired to die at the hands of a Tarnished, was impossible. He battles the Tarnished to the death, and dies stating that not even the Tarnished champion can kill a god such as Marika."

So if I understand this correctly, Gideon sought to become Elden Lord, but abandoned his cause due to the belief that it was impossible to slay a God, or were perhaps unwilling to kill Marika? To battle in eternity in a dying, stagnant world would somehow be a more worthwhile endeavor?

[vamirez]

Originally posted by MarkQWERTY:

Originally posted by Sabatoc:

Very good point.

I still wonder what Sir Gideon's endgame plan was. To struggle for an eternity in a dead and dying world is hardly an existance with much meaning. All that remains is stagnation and suffering.

I guess the question is what exactly he saw through Queen Marika that frightened him. Perhaps one of the not-so-happy endings might offer clues to that.

Marika became disillusioned with the Greater Will and so betrayed it. That's why we see Marika imprisoned within the Erdtree and why the Two Fingers said "Marika's trespassing demands a heavy sentence" or something along those lines.

If a Tarnished succeeded and become Elden Lord, you are basically handing control back to the Greater Will again. Marika wants to keep the Elden Ring shattered so the Greater Will will remained in a weakened state.

But Marika plotted for the Tarnished to kill the Elden Beast and basically free the Lands Between (hence the thorny barrier) - perhaps that is something the all-knowing Gideon didn't know? He says at one point that ofc he doesn't know everything, too. But his strat was to research all the lore lol (like some players do - funny actually :)). Another realistic possibility is that in the end he was afraid of change and would have preferred the round table and the champions trying to kill demigods etc. to go on forever.

[vamirez]

Originally posted by Sabatoc:

So if I understand this correctly, Gideon sought to become Elden Lord, but abandoned his cause due to the belief or unwillingness to kill Marika to do so? To battle in eternity in a dying, stagnant world would somehow be a more worthwhile endeavor?

Good post! This would agree with what I just theorized, that he wants to keep up the status quo of "the questing tarnished".

[Mander]

Because, when you're an arrogant prick who likes to bully people, killing people and justifying your general nastiness as a test of character and worthiness for the cause of Elden Lord, and you see a dragon sized tarnished, twice as tall and wide as you, with an axe you can have a picnic upon…
You do what every bully do: you let him pass and wait for a victim you believe you can take on.
Just to be slapped by the quiet kid immediatly after.