Why dodge on release instead of press?

[Maelos]

This isn't a complaint post or rant, but an actual question. Why did they decide to do it like this and essentially install a delay for dodging? It just seems to me that dodging while pressing the button would be way more logical. Did they ever give a reason for this?

[Noeat]

引用自 Maelos：

Well, guess that's the answer then. It's always been like that, so it'll stay like that... Let's hope the next game tries to change it? Would be kind of nice.

ngl, it will be interesting, but.. you mean sprint on release and dodge on press? ;)

[Muse Snooze]

引用自 Maelos：

Is that the only reason? It just seems like such a weak reason for something that can be quite important (dodging in time, that is). I'd much rather the interact button be 'on release' and hold for sprinting instead... Then again, I only play KB&M so maybe the interact button is badly placed for that?

It's not delayed dodge, it's DELAYABLE dodge, and it's amazing. It's saved me many times, where an early dodge in other souls games would have ended me, I get that extra few frames to chose when I roll now. It's genuinely a good change, and I bet it was playtested thoroughly to find the right number of frames.

[Maelos]

引用自 Muse Snooze：

引用自 Maelos：

Is that the only reason? It just seems like such a weak reason for something that can be quite important (dodging in time, that is). I'd much rather the interact button be 'on release' and hold for sprinting instead... Then again, I only play KB&M so maybe the interact button is badly placed for that?

It's not delayed dodge, it's DELAYABLE dodge, and it's amazing. It's saved me many times, where an early dodge in other souls games would have ended me, I get that extra few frames to chose when I roll now. It's genuinely a good change, and I bet it was playtested thoroughly to find the right number of frames.

I guess that's one way to look at it. Wouldn't typical Souls-community banter be 'Just press the button at the right time instead of holding it, git gud'? That's what people keep saying when you accidentally use press flasks or other item uses at the wrong time lol. Personally still prefer less delay by on-press like most games, but I guess it has niche applications.

[5chneemensch]

Consoles are not only limited in graphics and performance, but also in buttons. That's why you have multiple functions on the same button in console games.

[Tiasmoon]

引用自 Maelos：

This isn't a complaint post or rant, but an actual question. Why did they decide to do it like this and essentially install a delay for dodging? It just seems to me that dodging while pressing the button would be way more logical. Did they ever give a reason for this?

Because they made the poor design choice to place sprint on the same button, instead of on
L2/R2 or L3/R3

引用自 Yuki Terumi：

They likely wont change it a lot of the community is "it's always been trash so it's fine to stay trash"

^

[Tiasmoon]

引用自 splitsticks：

引用自 Coin：

Triangle is an action modifier.

Besides that's how it always been, no reason to change it.

He just explained the reason to change it. Because it lags your combat actions. It never mattered in previous souls games because enemy attacks used to be more predictable.

Life lesson: "Because it's always been that way" is something that idiots say. Time doesn't justify a mistake.

And also because the dodge action has a significant delay in this game even on press and instant release, which makes the problem larger.

[Muse Snooze]

引用自 Maelos：

引用自 Muse Snooze：

It's not delayed dodge, it's DELAYABLE dodge, and it's amazing. It's saved me many times, where an early dodge in other souls games would have ended me, I get that extra few frames to chose when I roll now. It's genuinely a good change, and I bet it was playtested thoroughly to find the right number of frames.

I guess that's one way to look at it. Wouldn't typical Souls-community banter be 'Just press the button at the right time instead of holding it, git gud'? That's what people keep saying when you accidentally use press flasks or other item uses at the wrong time lol. Personally still prefer less delay by on-press like most games, but I guess it has niche applications.

It's very similar to the flask situation, but much less punitive. Ever play ADOM? There's an unfair game. Everything in Souls games behaves consistently. I can reliably do a large number of tricky moves all the way back in Dark Souls 1 that are total butter to do now.

[Muse Snooze]

引用自 Tiasmoon：

引用自 splitsticks：

He just explained the reason to change it. Because it lags your combat actions. It never mattered in previous souls games because enemy attacks used to be more predictable.

Life lesson: "Because it's always been that way" is something that idiots say. Time doesn't justify a mistake.

And also because the dodge action has a significant delay in this game even on press and instant release, which makes the problem larger.

It doesn't. I don't know what's wrong with your setup, but on my laptop, it sure does not. I have every Souls game other than Bloodborne to test on here too, including emulating a PS3 and running my physical disk through a Blu-ray drive. None of these games have input delay. It has, after Dark Souls 1 onward, input queuing. This makes combat literally planable. You know the attack will take forever? Use a fast weapon, get 1-2 hits and midanimation tap dodge. By the time the attack ends, and that predicted attack is landing, the dodge happens for your like a good little dog. Really not hard. These games control in such a genuinely better way than other games, going back sickens me. When people show up and freak out at features and mechanics in this, I'm deeply puzzled. Anyone saying they prefer DS3 over this absolutely mystifies me, I've played all these games (other than Demon's Souls) at launch. DS3 is awful. Still beat it eventually to justify the spent money.

[Tariff Mike Hawk]

引用自 ✪ GIGO：

there is a reason, you need to hold the same button to run

this, the game needs to check if u trying to run or dodge

which is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid tbh

decouple run and dodge pls and thx

[Tiasmoon]

引用自 Muse Snooze：

It doesn't.

It does.

引用自 Muse Snooze：

These games control in such a genuinely better way than other games, going back sickens me.

Try Sekiro instead, and see what I mean. Or actually just try most modern action games.
Granted ive heard others say that the delay is much greater then dark souls games as well. Idk how true that is.

Not a fan of input queuing either. Its good for people that lack reaction time, but just a hinderance for everyone else. Between that and the actual input delay im not a fan of the ''planning'' it results in.

[Julymorning]

Why is this a problem? I have no trouble dodging anything. Game isn't super fast most attacks are delayed it takes years to press the needed dodge button

[Naewyng]

引用自 Tiasmoon：

引用自 Muse Snooze：

It doesn't.

It does.

引用自 Muse Snooze：

These games control in such a genuinely better way than other games, going back sickens me.

Try Sekiro instead, and see what I mean. Or actually just try most modern action games.
Granted ive heard others say that the delay is much greater then dark souls games as well. Idk how true that is.

Not a fan of input queuing either. Its good for people that lack reaction time, but just a hinderance for everyone else. Between that and the actual input delay im not a fan of the ''planning'' it results in.

From my testing seems like ds2 has the least input lag, while er has huge input lag, almost as much as ds1 on switch.

Also coming from somebody with way below average reaction time, the input queue is effing horrible and killed me hundreds of times already lol

[Maelos]

引用自 Julymorning：

Why is this a problem? I have no trouble dodging anything. Game isn't super fast most attacks are delayed it takes years to press the needed dodge button

You've never had it happen where you pressed the button, didn't release fast enough and just know that if it was on press instead of on release you would've dodged properly? I've had that happen a couple times now... Not often, but enough for me to think: what if they just had made it on press?

Also, there's a lot of attacks, primarily from bosses (the only place dodging really matters), where a small dodge delay can royally screw you over. Anyways, guess my question has been answered.

[AILAD]

It's on purpose. The goal is increase the artificial difficulty of the game. You would think that in a game that's all about timing your dodge rolls they would make it on button press not release but no...

Even a ♥♥♥♥ game like Stranger of Paradise somehow managed to separate dodge and sprint but apparently Fromsoft can't do it.

[✪ GIGO]

引用自 Maelos：

didn't release fast enough

Yep, sounds like a you problem.