(old topic, patches changed a few things so nvm) holy incantations too weak

[Roen]

why are the holy incantations all so weak... the freaking "Elden Stars" that is supposed to be the strongest incantation (you need 50 faith for it) doesnt even kill a weak enemy while having 80+ faith build with the erdtree seal maxed out +10.

doesnt make much sense, most of the sorceries at 40+ intelligence are all one shot death blows...
i had high expectations of the rings of light spells which are hard to get end game stuff. but after finally getting them i found out it takes more than 5 hits to even kill a foot soldier. its absolutely useless in boss fights. for example fighting a tree sentinel in farum azula, before you can even cast these incantation he already hit you with a fireball and with the strongest armor of the entire game more than 50% of my hp is gone, and i cast 3 elden stars on his face and he doesnt even get a visible damage from his hp bar.

i maxed out the sacred sword, and the blasphemous sword both to +10, but also these special skills dont do even do as much damage as a normal lightning bolt, while they take much longer to cast, and when you get hit the skill doesnt even come out at all.

same goes for fire btw. i tried a pure pyromancer build, but i found none of the fire incantations actually powerful enough or even useable against fast enemies, only the standard fireball throw is somewhat useful, just as the mail lightning bolt (spear) is actually only thing useable in boss fights.

edit; lots of people reacting about certain incantations... but i thought in the title i wrote Holy incantations, the lightning spear isnt a holy incantation either btw thats a dragon knight school incantation doing lightning damage.

[John Titor]

Riseth from hence thine graven rest hole.

[ressenmacher]

Roen님이 먼저 게시:

why are the holy incantations all so weak... the freaking "Elden Stars" that is supposed to be the strongest incantation (you need 50 faith for it) doesnt even kill a weak enemy while having 80+ faith build with the erdtree seal maxed out +10.

Define "Weak Enemy." At those stats Elden Stars should be well able to oneshot most fodder like Footsoldiers and such.

Roen님이 먼저 게시:

i had high expectations of the rings of light spells which are hard to get end game stuff. but after finally getting them i found out it takes more than 5 hits to even kill a foot soldier.

Something is very, very wrong if you need five casts to kill. Are you in like NG+7 using the basic ring and only hitting one part?

Roen님이 먼저 게시:

for example fighting a tree sentinel in farum azula, before you can even cast these incantation he already hit you with a fireball and with the strongest armor of the entire game more than 50% of my hp is gone, and i cast 3 elden stars on his face and he doesnt even get a visible damage from his hp bar.

1: what is your vigor, and what NG cycle is this? I came in with Scale Armor and 45 vig my first time around and was not taking half my health from that attack...and that's on the low end for HP. It's recommended to have 60 by that point in the game.

2: Elden Stars does not do as much damage as Comet Azure or certain other burst damage sorceries because that is not the aim of the spell. With its strong tracking and continual poise damage, Elden Stars is a pressure tool that you lead with and then take advantage of by engaging the enemy in melee.

Roen님이 먼저 게시:

i maxed out the sacred sword, and the blasphemous sword both to +10, but also these special skills dont do even do as much damage as a normal lightning bolt, while they take much longer to cast, and when you get hit the skill doesnt even come out at all.

Iirc some weapon arts scale from WUL instead of stats. At high stats, those WAs might just not keep up with a lightning bolt.

Roen님이 먼저 게시:

same goes for fire btw. i tried a pure pyromancer build, but i found none of the fire incantations actually powerful enough or even useable against fast enemies, only the standard fireball throw is somewhat useful, just as the mail lightning bolt (spear) is actually only thing useable in boss fights.

Catch Flame is faster than both of the mentioned spells, FotF God shouldn't have timing issues to begin with due to how it's used, and GFTT can knockdown loop enemies and is a powerful option when combined with verticality.

I conclude based on this that it is user error. Speaking personally, Catch Flame is one of the most dangerous spells in the entire game, particularly because of the high poise damage it does which eliminates one of the major weaknesses of trading using a fast, light spell.



To summarize, according to what you have relayed you're using the heaviest armor in the game and still constantly getting staggered out of everything. You're very heavily invested into faith and yet you're taking five casts to kill weak enemies. You make no mention of like half the GOF incantations in the first place (notable ommissions: Wrath of Gold, triple rings, Order's Blade, Causality). From this information, I can conclude only that you are either grossly distorting the reality of what is occurring or that you are struggling to use these spells in their proper roles and with proper timing. There are major problems with some incantations (RRoL is too slow for the mediocre range increase over WoG, high level Dragon Cult stuff doesn't deal any meaningful damage with the aftershocks, Vyke's Dragonbolt sucks until you are level nine billion, Whirl O Flame and Litany of Order are just bad, etc), but I don't feel that on the whole the entire casting class sucks.

Smash님이 먼저 게시:

Faith in DS3 absolutely can stand on its own, i beat whole DS3 as faith spellcaster and last boss i deleted in few seconds, my faster boss kill ever.

It just harder than mage or pyromancy because there is few rules player need to understand to have fun.

- first is that you stay close to enemy, most faith spells are short range or have (very important extra damage) when in close combat.

- second is prayer buff that give you up to extreme high stagger resist/poise, it is mandatory, yes you will get hit but you will delete enemy anyway and heal after that, you have healing spells for that.

You pretty much plays more like Zeus powerhouse in DS3, amazing feel.

Elden Ring lacks this unique gameplay.

I think it's also worth noting that DS3 offensive faith builds are hamstrung by how poor their progression is. A faith build gets their faith-scaling infusion close to 2/3rds or 1/2 (depending on direction taken) the way through the game, and their first major offensive spell upgrade after the final boss. They do work well, but only once you actually get all of the stuff needed together, and by that time the basegame is over.

Nerevar님이 먼저 게시:

i will agree alot of incants need buffs. badly on some cases. like lanneseax glaive is a complete joke currently. its never worth useing compared to others. the wave needs more travel distance and the cast needs hyper armor. this thing is fully outclassed by wave of gold weapon art in every way.

It actually got hyperarmor in a recent patch, along with ADLS and Fortissax's Lightning Spear. It's useable now, if still generally overshadowed by her brother's option.

[Smash]

ressenmacher님이 먼저 게시:

I think it's also worth noting that DS3 offensive faith builds are hamstrung by how poor their progression is. A faith build gets their faith-scaling infusion close to 2/3rds or 1/2 (depending on direction taken) the way through the game, and their first major offensive spell upgrade after the final boss. They do work well, but only once you actually get all of the stuff needed together, and by that time the basegame is over.

I disagree, Lighting Stake is first major damage upgrade, additional there is few good offensive miracles like Gnaws, Lifehunt scythe, Wrath of the God etc.

Beginning is harsh, you have to rush for lighting strike but it is really ok in close combat.

Ofc there is Great Lighting Spear from covenant, it is quite grind but spell can be skipped.

Incantation in ER are too slow, plenty of enemies easy interrupt casting, it feels like Radagon icon does not help much and so far i found only dragon breaths really fun to use.

[BIGDOJO]

the incantations are weak? you're weak.

[ressenmacher]

Smash님이 먼저 게시:

I disagree, Lighting Stake is first major damage upgrade

Fair, though it's really meant as a sidegrade (AoE option as opposed to direct single target like the bolts).

Smash님이 먼저 게시:

there is few good offensive miracles like Gnaws, Lifehunt scythe, Wrath of the God etc.

Unless you grind covenant rewards, your second major damage upgrade to your basic spell comes after you beat the game.

That is ridiculous. Sorcerers get it before you even get Lightning Stake. Pyromancers get it before you even get Lightning Stake.

Smash님이 먼저 게시:

Incantation in ER are too slow, plenty of enemies easy interrupt casting, it feels like Radagon icon does not help much and so far i found only dragon breaths really fun to use.

Have you tried using Catch Flame against stuff too close or too fast to cast properly against?

[John Titor]

Smash님이 먼저 게시:

ressenmacher님이 먼저 게시:

I think it's also worth noting that DS3 offensive faith builds are hamstrung by how poor their progression is. A faith build gets their faith-scaling infusion close to 2/3rds or 1/2 (depending on direction taken) the way through the game, and their first major offensive spell upgrade after the final boss. They do work well, but only once you actually get all of the stuff needed together, and by that time the basegame is over.

I disagree, Lighting Stake is first major damage upgrade, additional there is few good offensive miracles like Gnaws, Lifehunt scythe, Wrath of the God etc.

Beginning is harsh, you have to rush for lighting strike but it is really ok in close combat.

Ofc there is Great Lighting Spear from covenant, it is quite grind but spell can be skipped.

Incantation in ER are too slow, plenty of enemies easy interrupt casting, it feels like Radagon icon does not help much and so far i found only dragon breaths really fun to use.

My god, what a slow and boring argument. Can you please pick up the pace?!

[Sabaithal]

Holy damage is useful against undead stuff, of which there is quite a lot. Because copy-pasting zombies just never gets old.

Neither does raising threads from the dead apparently.

[Casval Zem Daikun]

Zeon님이 먼저 게시:

Spells are very overtuned in comparison to incantations in general & on top of that Comet Azur shouldn't even exist in the capacity that it does. One hitting a boss is absurd. Not to mention all of these holy resistant enemies just tanking the damage even further.

Elden Ring's balance overall is a joke, just be glad you aren't a strength build OP.

Pretty much this.
I tried an incantation build before and it was, well, underwhelming would be putting it lightly. In comparison to sorceries, it seems they really nailed the "support" aspect of incantations in that the damaging ones are hardly worth using.

[Joeycentral]

I am doing a "Lansseax Consort" build that utlizes ancient dragon incantations like Fortrissax's Lightning Spear, Lansseax's Glaive, Ancient Dragon Lightning, Vyke's Lightning Bolt, and of course, Lightning Spear. For the most part, I just use Vyke's Lightning Bolt to buff my Godskin Peeler and just poke enemies to death if I want a quick and FP efficient way to kill enemies.

To do massive dmg to big targets, Ancient Dragon Lightningstorm is a good way to do that. Otherwise, Fortrissax's Lightning Spear is a good way to do damage and poise damage too. To take out a group of enemies, Lansseax's Glaive works wonders as her glaive does amazing AOE.

Overall it takes some tinkering and I am still trying to find a way to make this build work. It definitely isnt top tier by any stretch of the imagination, but it's a fun unique build and has potential.

[Roen]

guys, you are reacting on a topic from march, in the meantime there have been a few patches with balancing etc etc... i currently respec into a faith build again and its pretty strong even without holy talismans, i only run defensive talismans lol the rings of light incantations are pretty op