Unbelievable amount of muling and high level summons

[Raigavin]

Please be civil before posting in this thread. The topic is not put up in a negative sense, but rather an observation.

I recently found out how to invade in the game and couple this with my level 1 no weapon/spirit upgrade run (currently ongoing), you can imagine where this proceeds.

Note: I am playing the game without wikis, walkthroughs, spoilers nor youtube vidoes. Directly started the SL1 run after installing the game, as I have had experience playing low level runs in previous Souls games

So I have been invading at the starting area of the game (tree sentinel) and I have to say that the instances of finding a muling event or a group of extremely high level summons (by thier ability to cast high level spells like that blue laser and the weapons they wield with fully equipped armor) with the host is astronomically higher when compared to previous souls games. Almost 3/4th of the time overall during invasions.

Now I don't think this is bad, its cool people are able to experience what/how the high level characters look,act and feel like. To which invasions also contribute to that coolness, because people will think of what they can get/do playing or approaching the game differently.

Note: My inspiration for doing low level runs was by getting invaded by some end game equipped character at the start of DS1 game, that got me thinking "hey, I can try to do that too" and that got me on a wonderful planning runs on DS1, 30K SM in DS1, Low level in Bloodborne, SL1 in DS3. Doing those runs are completely different than just playing the game the normal way.

Getting assistance from high level characters is not a big deal, I think everyone from any/every level always try to help the hosts who summon. This can have a positive effect on the hosts about the items/spells/skills which are later encountered in the game

But muling I think destroys or decreases the playtime/enjoyment/satisfaction one would experience until finding those items themselves or until that point during exporation or progression.

During my level 1 run in DS3, I had played the game prior with level 12 and knew the locations of the items in and out. Since the game locations was linear in a fashion and sometimes a bit hard to get through due to challenges in the environment and enemies, I had to actually make a plan of which items I would get and in what order. This was a lot of fun and later satisfaction on getting access to those items.

Now if a new players gets a bunch load of item spam from another character online, where is the fun/enjoyment/satisfaction the person would get in actually trying to get those same specific items on the playthrough to experience the game?

What are your thoughts?

[Raigavin]

Forgot to mention that, the souls game is not only about progression on your playthrough or killing enemies or killing bosses.

But also acquiring the items in the game from the particular located/enemy/bosses, the process of acquiring is in itself a sort of an achievement/gametime/enjoyment. Getting those early as dropped by someone is basically like someone you summon is killing all the enemies or the locations on the world map and secret locations are all already revealed.

[Bill]

Keep in mind. Many of us have already beaten the game. I've done quite a bit of muling myself to help get other builds going. I think what you're assuming is new players are getting handed things by experienced players. But that isn't muling. Muling is basically just getting around the fact that this game doesn't have a shared stash like Diablo. It's giving gear from your char to your char. Sometimes it's fun to just make a completely fresh new character. But this early on I'm more interested in testing out lots of diff builds for high level pvp. That said this game is HUGE and I don't want to spend another 120 hrs (not an exaggeration in the slightest) doing every catacomb etc to get specific things I want to get a build going. As for high level summon help, this happens in every souls game, this one is just more popular and so you'll have more people that feel the game is "too hard" etc. But just remember, it is your job to invade them. And teach them pain. =)

[MrSoul]

You are among a handful of people invading there who are not twinking the ♥♥♥♥ out.

This goes both ways, and imho is rampant more now than ever with this title.

Why still surprised trading is a thing in these games. Wanna help pvp? Remove it entirely. Harsh, but ya majority players want that gear etc are not going to grind for it, then add in people intentionally under levelling and any semblance of real balance goes flying out the window with the bleed and madness builds can accomplish at next to sl1

[ZTL-Altima]

Was never fan of either of these things. Summon should remain level based and item drop/trading could be gone, maybe except consumables.

[MrSoul]

Parsify eredeti hozzászólása:

Was never fan of either of these things. Summon should remain level based and item drop/trading could be gone, maybe except consumables.

Ya actually let me correct myself, limited trading would be fine, all specials, talismans, runes etc nope. Can trade for second uchi with your buddy but enough of enabling Twinkie factories lol

[Old Man Gamer (OMG)]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NOzGJt1zgQ
For me, it would ruin the game. I prefer to experience a game, than let someone play it for me. I have nothing against those that just want the best right away, but that would make the game short lived for me.

[Timbermaw]

Yep, coop phantoms apparently get off by showing their twink gear and soloing the whole game for the host.. what are we gonna do.

[Pocket Dog]

Raigavin eredeti hozzászólása:

Please be civil before posting in this thread. The topic is not put up in a negative sense, but rather an observation.

I recently found out how to invade in the game and couple this with my level 1 no weapon/spirit upgrade run (currently ongoing), you can imagine where this proceeds.

Note: I am playing the game without wikis, walkthroughs, spoilers nor youtube vidoes. Directly started the SL1 run after installing the game, as I have had experience playing low level runs in previous Souls games

So I have been invading at the starting area of the game (tree sentinel) and I have to say that the instances of finding a muling event or a group of extremely high level summons (by thier ability to cast high level spells like that blue laser and the weapons they wield with fully equipped armor) with the host is astronomically higher when compared to previous souls games. Almost 3/4th of the time overall during invasions.

Now I don't think this is bad, its cool people are able to experience what/how the high level characters look,act and feel like. To which invasions also contribute to that coolness, because people will think of what they can get/do playing or approaching the game differently.

Note: My inspiration for doing low level runs was by getting invaded by some end game equipped character at the start of DS1 game, that got me thinking "hey, I can try to do that too" and that got me on a wonderful planning runs on DS1, 30K SM in DS1, Low level in Bloodborne, SL1 in DS3. Doing those runs are completely different than just playing the game the normal way.

Getting assistance from high level characters is not a big deal, I think everyone from any/every level always try to help the hosts who summon. This can have a positive effect on the hosts about the items/spells/skills which are later encountered in the game

But muling I think destroys or decreases the playtime/enjoyment/satisfaction one would experience until finding those items themselves or until that point during exporation or progression.

During my level 1 run in DS3, I had played the game prior with level 12 and knew the locations of the items in and out. Since the game locations was linear in a fashion and sometimes a bit hard to get through due to challenges in the environment and enemies, I had to actually make a plan of which items I would get and in what order. This was a lot of fun and later satisfaction on getting access to those items.

Now if a new players gets a bunch load of item spam from another character online, where is the fun/enjoyment/satisfaction the person would get in actually trying to get those same specific items on the playthrough to experience the game?

What are your thoughts?

Why do you care how others play when it ultimately has no bearing on you? You're doing what so many Dark Souls fans love to do, which is to speak on behalf of everyone else by trying to objectively define what fun is. Fun is subjective, and you don't get to define what that is for other people.

I don't understand this obsession that the Souls faithful have in playing a particular way, or playing the 'right' way, as if these things are immutable. Souls fans have taken Miyazaki's misguided notion that any sense of achievement and fulfillment can *only* come from intense struggle and ran with it, to the point where they think not adhering to their standards is the 'wrong' way to play. It's bad enough that Miyazaki wants to define for players what fun and a sense of achievement is; we don't need any more players doing the same thing. If enjoyment to me, or anyone else, is trying to minimize struggle (being that I'm not a masochist like so many Souls faithful) to a path of achievement, then that's my prerogative and no one's else's.

[Chronic Complainer Reviews]

I think muling is fine once you have beaten the game and done everything, and the only reason you are muling is to get items you can no longer obtain without going into NG+ (Like Bolt of Gransax) or to get a copy of a weapon to try power stancing with ( Such as boss weapons, as I am sure there is not enough tortoise on the map to duplicate enough boss souls to get 2 of every weapon along with the 2nd item they can give you ).

Everything else in the game can be farmed quite easily, especially if you spend like 10 minutes just killing birds to craft the feet that boost item discovery, on top of using the talisman that does the same thing.

[Raigavin]

Aznageel eredeti hozzászólása:

I think what you're assuming is new players are getting handed things by experienced players. But that isn't muling. Muling is basically just getting around the fact that this game doesn't have a shared stash like Diablo.

Yes, correct. I was mostly talking about new players who are handed things by other summons, because
- Some of their steam profiles (which are public) do not have the achievements at key points to get those items
- They are exceptionally bad even after getting those items (like quite a few people were rolling fat heavy in armour or were wearing that women with metal arm in poster equipment with long katana class weapons doing only chip damage due to unsatisfied stat requirement)

It may seem cool to start the game with those items, but later when they get the same items it will not have that satisfactory punch/awesomeness tied to it.

Quite a few hosts at the first NPC merchant bonfire when threatened they swapped from their normal starting weapons into the Reduvsomething bleed dagger with ranged bleed proc in one hand and a orange spiral like dagger in offhand (which I didn't know what it was, until I got it recently before I beat Astel).

Getting that orange spiral dagger is pretty deep in the game.

Side note: My Astel kill, took me a long time to find its weaknesses.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2782533371

Sisko eredeti hozzászólása:

Harsh, but ya majority players want that gear etc are not going to grind for it, then add in people intentionally under levelling and any semblance of real balance goes flying out the window with the bleed and madness builds can accomplish at next to sl1

Getting most of the item's doesn't need grind at all, you just need to reach a certain spot in the game crossing enemies, areas and bosses (sometimes) and you have it.

My attempts with (around a minute) madness build at level 1.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2780537587
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2780537624

Pocket Dog eredeti hozzászólása:

Why do you care how others play when it ultimately has no bearing on you? You're doing what so many Dark Souls fans love to do, which is to speak on behalf of everyone else by trying to objectively define what fun is. Fun is subjective, and you don't get to define what that is for other people.

I don't understand this obsession that the Souls faithful have in playing a particular way, or playing the 'right' way, as if these things are immutable. Souls fans have taken Miyazaki's misguided notion that any sense of achievement and fulfillment can *only* come from intense struggle and ran with it, to the point where they think not adhering to their standards is the 'wrong' way to play. It's bad enough that Miyazaki wants to define for players what fun and a sense of achievement is; we don't need any more players doing the same thing. If enjoyment to me, or anyone else, is trying to minimize struggle (being that I'm not a masochist like so many Souls faithful) to a path of achievement, then that's my prerogative and no one's else's.

There is no obsession.

Most of the people who are playing Elden Ring are completely new to souls games (large number of concurrent players and also breaking record sales). Having dropped end game items/equipment/weapons is actually robbing them of finding those things for themselves during normal progress of the game.

Your same analogy can also be added to bosses and area traversal, why struggle? why not have just the summons kill the bosses and areas cleared while the host just sits? (the analogy doesn't work)

Here is an example, I am absolutely sure this is how some of those new players who got end game items at the start of the game dropped at their feet experienced.
- A completely new player to Elden Ring gets a Orange spiral dagger (one which applies rot) at the start of the game, because it looks cool and sounded nice. Now after they spent 50-100 hours in the game, they finally get to the location in the game where the item is actually placed. Player gets the item "Oh, lol. I already got this item at the start of the game".

[Lunacy]

Keep in mind many lategame areas can be accessed very quickly, so sometimes it isn't always muling. You can get a +9 somber weapon pretty quickly.

[Raigavin]

Lunacy eredeti hozzászólása:

Keep in mind many lategame areas can be accessed very quickly, so sometimes it isn't always muling. You can get a +9 somber weapon pretty quickly.

But involves killing certain bosses or through harder areas along the way, a completely new player to Elden Ring mostly will never do that.

People who are used to souls games themselves are sometimes a bit disoriented with Elder Ring the first time. (mostly tied to open world)

[Kerrack]

Lunacy eredeti hozzászólása:

Keep in mind many lategame areas can be accessed very quickly, so sometimes it isn't always muling. You can get a +9 somber weapon pretty quickly.

I was about to make this exact point.
If you know what you're doing you can have a +12 normal weapon, some pretty decent armor, and a couple of solid spirit ashes half an hour after starting a character.

[Raigavin]

Kerrack eredeti hozzászólása:

Lunacy eredeti hozzászólása:

Keep in mind many lategame areas can be accessed very quickly, so sometimes it isn't always muling. You can get a +9 somber weapon pretty quickly.

I was about to make this exact point.
If you know what you're doing you can have a +12 normal weapon, some pretty decent armor, and a couple of solid spirit ashes half an hour after starting a character.

I honestly cannot speak about upgrading weapons, I never upgraded them "-_-.
But was mostly mentioning acquiring the actual weapons (and armour) themselves right at the first open world bonfire by new players to Elden Ring.

[Funpire]

OP... There are a lot of things not worth my time, invading with anything other than a full kit build is just throwing my time away. I don't always need to win or even always care to win, but I do want the best chance at A) Having fun, B) Having a maximized build to fight the 3 people who are waiting for me (maybe 4), C) sometimes win.

So far, MP is pretty trash so, mule or die imo. Buddy of mine is going to get this game in a few weeks. I already built multiple toons at various levels with different specialized builds specifically for invaders.

Will say, if you are currently using a moonveil or RoB... Think about how weak you are when you die to anything else... :)