Opinion: Any boss that can one shot you is bad game design

[Krythic]

Edit: It seems I should offer a definition of "one shotting" here, because this appears to be a matter of contention. I define one-shotting as any attack that can outright kill a player with an average stat spread. Or in other words, 40 vigor as a baseline.

First off, this isn't me raging because I can't "git gud". Look at my achievements, I've tackled a good portion of bosses in the game. I'm near the end. I played Ds3 and beat it twice. I know how souls games work. I understand that you have to dance with your enemies and punish them.

So with this out of the way, I just wanted to say that any boss being able to one shot you is bad game design. There's really no intelligent way to argue against this, either. If you try, I'll laugh at you. It's not fun, it's not engaging. It's not even difficult, it's just overtly unfair. And I think that's the main problem with Souls games as a whole. There are too many bosses that can kill you instantly. I'm lvl 94 right now, wearing armor that negates 40% of physical damage, and I think around 20% in collective elemental resistances (I haven't looked that well tbh, but it's not a negligible amount.

I have 40 Vigor. Enemies can still one shot me. I might as well be running around naked because it doesn't matter what you have equipped in this game. Armor seems more like a "feel good" mechanic. Does it protect you? Allegedly. But because enemies deal a set amount of damage instead of set + percentile of max health, and that set number can clearly be within the thousands, 40% reduction, etc, doesn't matter. Bosses are designed to kill you instantly by doing such absurd levels of damage. The game is simply imbalanced in this regard.

I'm not asking for the game to be easier. I'm merely attempting to articulate that allowing bosses to one shot you is not good game design. What's worse is enemies that have no cooldown between attacks, and can just pulverize you six to seven times in less than a second. You miss a single dodge, or anything gets in the way, you're dead. Lmao, have fun taking five minutes to run back just to do it all over again.

And I know what a lot of you guys are going to ask: "How can you fix it?". Well, it's quite simple. Don't allow one-shot kill attacks. The damage for those attacks should be deferred to a percentile of max health. Massive attacks from huge bosses can deal 75% damage of max health + a modifier of straight damage. Reserve truly one shot damage attacks to massive ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ bosses, like giants, but make these attacks telegraphed and avoidable. Any attack combo that a boss does should not be allowed to outright kill you, unless you get hit with each and every component of the combo. If you get hit with every attack, that's you messing up, and you should be punished for it. A player dodging 5 out of 6 attacks shouldn't be instantly killed for failing to dodge the 6th one. They should be punished for it, sure. But not killed.

There we go. That's my rant.

[yds]

It depends on the area. In Elden Ring you can easily travel to late game areas, and if the late game bosses weren't able to one shot you, then everybody would rightly complain that they were too easy.

One shot at 40 vigor? Maybe it's bad, although not without precedent in previous Fromsoft games. Just use a shield or a barrier spell. Usually one shot attacks are telegraphed well.

[Emerald Lance]

If a boss can one shot you, your vigor isn't high enough.

[Fen'Haral]

Originally posted by Krythic:

First off, this isn't me raging because I can't "git gud". Look at my achievements, I've tackled a good portion of bosses in the game. I'm near the end. I played Ds3 and beat it twice. I know how souls games work. I understand that you have to dance with your enemies and punish them.

So with this out of the way, I just wanted to say that any boss being able to one shot you is bad game design. There's really no intelligent way to argue against this, either. If you try, I'll laugh at you. It's not fun, it's not engaging. It's not even difficult, it's just overtly unfair. And I think that's the main problem with Souls games as a whole. There are too many bosses that can kill you instantly. I'm lvl 94 right now, wearing armor that negates 40% of physical damage, and I think around 20% in collective elemental resistances (I haven't looked that well tbh, but it's not a negligible amount.

I have 40 Vigor. Enemies can still one shot me. I might as well be running around naked because it doesn't matter what you have equipped in this game. Armor seems more like a "feel good" mechanic. Does it protect you? Allegedly. But because enemies deal a set amount of damage instead of set + percentile of max health, and that set number can clearly be within the thousands, 40% reduction, etc, doesn't matter. Bosses are designed to kill you instantly by doing such absurd levels of damage. The game is simply imbalanced in this regard.

I'm not asking for the game to be easier. I'm merely attempting to articulate that allowing bosses to one shot you is not good game design. What's worse is enemies that have no cooldown between attacks, and can just pulverize you six to seven times in less than a second. You miss a single dodge, or anything gets in the way, you're dead. Lmao, have fun taking five minutes to run back just to do it all over again.

And I know what a lot of you guys are going to ask: "How can you fix it?". Well, it's quite simple. Don't allow one-shot kill attacks. The damage for those attacks should be deferred to a percentile of max health. Massive attacks from huge bosses can deal 75% damage of max health + a modifier of straight damage. Reserve truly one shot damage attacks to massive ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ bosses, like giants, but make these attacks telegraphed and avoidable. Any attack combo that a boss does should not be allowed to outright kill you, unless you get hit with each and every component of the combo. If you get hit with every attack, that's you messing up, and you should be punished for it. A player dodging 5 out of 6 attacks shouldn't be instantly killed for failing to dodge the 6th one. They should be punished for it, sure. But not killed.

There we go. That's my rant.

There are no one shots.

[zero]

agree, this is a new issue with the souls games, priror games did not really have 1 shots if you had proper life, but it doesn't appear to be the case here.

not sure what the problem is exactly, if armor just is bad or if bosses are just way overtuned, but no boss should be 1 shotting if you have the proper stats for that area.

[Dailao]

Originally posted by Krythic:

Opinion: Any boss that can one shot you is bad game design

Completely agree. So are bosses that can bleed you with a single full bar for 80-90%.

[Fen'Haral]

Originally posted by zero:

agree, this is a new issue with the souls games, priror games did not really have 1 shots if you had proper life, but it doesn't appear to be the case here.

not sure what the problem is exactly, if armor just is bad or if bosses are just way overtuned, but no boss should be 1 shotting if you have the proper stats for that area.

lol this game has exactly the same boss mechanics, if anything these are easier. There are No Mechanical One Shots.

[Mech_Monkey]

Hello!
I am curious, what bosses one-shot you? I just started putting points into vigor (at 31 now?) And I was going for damage / mobility / weapon art usage. In that order. While I had a problem with this earlier in the game, it does not seem to happen now. But yes, I am quite squishy. They do take a chunk of my health, but not one-shot me. Unless you also mean one-combo? Multiple hits? Certain flower lady being the one that gave me most trouble, so far - super small window for dodges, especially for her ''ultimate'').

When I see that boss is using magic, I use items that negate magic. Same principle applied throughout the game. Shame you get a physical resistance talisman so late in the game.

I have not finished the game yet, so I am assuming you are talking about stuff that comes at the very end?

[Netsa]

Technically, nothing can oneshot you with a proper level, defense, and Vigor level. If you need more than 40, you need more than 40. Stats don't work the same way they used to.

Also, yes, you are asking for the game to be easier. That's what removing oneshots means. They could just add what I like to call the "Undershirt", making it so nothing can oneshot if you're above 1 HP (which I suspect is in some parts of the game, anyway, but I can't be sure), but I'm sure that would lead to some salt.

[Sabaithal]

Meh. Bosses that have "unavoidable" attacks are much worse for me. IE, an attack that hits everywhere at once, like what ulcerated tree spirit does when it goes to phase 2 in the catacombs.

[Krythic]

Originally posted by Flying Monkey:

Hello!
I am curious, what bosses one-shot you? I just started putting points into vigor (at 31 now?) And I was going for damage / mobility / weapon art usage. In that order. While I had a problem with this earlier in the game, it does not seem to happen now. But yes, I am quite squishy. They do take a chunk of my health, but not one-shot me. Unless you also mean one-combo? Multiple hits? Certain flower lady being the one that gave me most trouble, so far - super small window for dodges, especially for her ''ultimate'').

When I see that boss is using magic, I use items that negate magic. Same principle applied throughout the game. Shame you get a physical resistance talisman so late in the game.

I have not finished the game yet, so I am assuming you are talking about stuff that comes at the very end?

Captain Niall was one. Lightning Kick was instant kill even at 40 vigor and rank 2 lightening resist talisman. His cold AOE was almost an instant kill as well. Malikath the Dark Blade or whatever is instant kill with nearly every attack he does. Still haven't beaten him yet. There are others that were instant kill as well, I just don't care to enumerate them.

[Pitt viper]

The more I read these kinds of threads the more I'm convinced stats/attributes are broken atm.

Still I'm enjoying the game enough.

[Krythic]

Originally posted by Pitt viper:

The more I read these kinds of threads the more I'm convinced stats/attributes are broken atm.

Still I'm enjoying the game enough.

Oh, I'm enjoying the game as well. Truly. It's a great game. There's just some bad design choices here and there that make me sigh.

[Bagg Boy (formerly Smoke)]

Medium and heavy armor go a long way. Radahn used to OHKO me if I wore light armor during his fight. Now I wear medium armor, and can survive his meteor slam attack. I've seen folks wear medium armor during fights like Godfrey and Malenia and survive even their most deadly attacks.

[Nerevar]

someone didnt level vigor enough. welcome to why the 60 softcap is important. no boss can oneshot you with that.

[Mehermagerk]

There are a lot one one shots at 40 Vigor people saying there isn't are the people who pump vigor to the moon