Multiplayer thoughts - I want your thoughts about MP! :)

[Synatrax]

Hey Community,

like the most, im hyped for the single player over all. But i'm also curious about the MP Expierence we can get out of the game.

I never played a CnC multiplayer. Just single player.

It's not to blame anyone. Not the community, not the devs, not EA.

So i would like to hear your thoughts about Multiplayer to shorten the time to release! :)

My guesses:

Which will be played more?
I guess RA1, because TD didn't had Online 1995 and is probably worse balanced than RA1 and RA1 is the "newer" game? But maybe people are interested to see, how the first game would handle MP and are curious about and will play TD more?

The feel:
For me, don't judge me, CnC TD and RA1 is more an arcade game, than a RTS for todays standards. - This is no disrespect to CnC. It does very much to RTS. It's just my feeling for today standards.
Because, for me, it seems like, the strategic layer is very basic.
You have to manage 1 and a half resources (Money and Energy) and most game will result into spamming 2 or 3 diffrent unit types, because all other unit types, esp. infantry seems useless? And building cheap buildings (Energybuildings) Close to the enemy to spam tower. I can be wrong ofc, but so it looks to me.
Additional the "Fog of War" Mechanic is plain. So you don't have to scout over the whole game or something like that and the opponent can't suprise you. Just buy some fast units, sucide to the enemy base, and you see excatly what the opponent is doing. All the time. The whole game.

Balance:
Like i said, i guess we will have 1, or 2 BO's at all, which aim to spam the 2 or 3 units and tower which arent useless at all. Like i said, i can be wrong ofc. I also dont see any reason, why some maps should be played drasticly diffrent to each other. (Sea maps just add one more unit to spam?)

Hacks and stuff?
Yeah, i guess we have to expect stuff like that. I have no clue, but for me it feels we have to expect it. It's because the people has the Source Code. I guess that fact may it more easy to build software for hacking.
And i guess, we will have P2P, which is also more easy to abuse.

Server:
EA has a history of shutting down MP Servers. I know, the devs aren't EA. But im not sure, who would pay the Server. EA or the devs.
I expect P2P server, they are cheaper, so they can maintain for a longer time, before shutting down the matchmaking severs. The gameserver itself lay down by one of the players. And in theory, they provide a better Ping. The 1on1 only Quickmatch is also a strong indicator for P2P only. P2P is limited by the users Upstream. 1on1 you don't have that problem that much. 4v4 in RA1 would need 7x8000 upstream minimum per player. This is fine for uncounted lobby games. But with ranking system the people would go riot today.
But P2P come with further drawbacks, which is another reason, why MP P2P Games always fail. It's abusable to an absurd level. You can easy "De-Sync" you or your opponent and avoid a lost game. It also make Hacks more easy, because there isn't a dedicated server which keep an eye.
But i have now clue about that stuff. Also here i can be completly wrong. It's just my thougt about.

It's dedicated server. So no P2P issues! :)

14. How will multiplayer work? and mp will be in the remaster?
Answer: MP will be in the remaster for more info, Here is the quote from one of the articles:
"At a high level, Multiplayer has effectively been rebuilt for the Remaster. Starting with the backend, Multiplayer now runs on dedicated servers based on Petroglyph’s architecture, with a goal of providing reliable connections and prevent misbehavior."

[/quote]


E-Sport?
Like every game today, it's not about the game is good, balanced or the players are super talented and good. E-Sport is all about attention today which results in advertisment earnings. CnC Remake have a lot of attention. When people watch it, there will be winning prizes they focused to make the viewer expierence more intense. Not to pay the players bills.
Like all remakes, the attention can go back very fast, because it's not excatly new. To keep up E-Sports in CnC its all about, how many viewers are still there after the HYPE. And that depends only on, "It is enjoyable to watch or not" - I dunno about that. You think, CnC MP is enjoyable to watch for viewer, who maybe dont even play the game? When not, there will be no long living E-Sports about the remake.
I also didn't hear about EA organized tourneys and stuff. So the faith from EA, CnC Remake will be E-Sport seems like non existent. But for AoE2DE they gave money, so who knows?
Also no ladder decay or seasons is a punch against the longlivity of competition.

I CAN BE WRONG WITH ALL POINTS OF COURSE. - Don't hate me for my thoughts. - I'm still hyped for the game. And die SP alone is worth the 20 bucks!

I am not a native english speaker obv. Please don't judge me at my typos and grammar mistakes. TBH im bad in english.

So. What are your thoughts about Multiplayer? Let me read your thoughts! :)

Thanks in advance

[xenon]

Messaggio originale di SentoN:

Messaggio originale di xenon:

CNC games are basically all the same. You manage resources, spam one unit type (usually a tank and sometime some infantry for fodder), tech up, expand base, rinse and repeat.

Are we talking about competitives gameplay or "just for fun" custom matches?
When i watch bikerush playin C&C i can´t see any spamming of only 1 type of unit.
I see strats and counter strats, i see units and counterunits.

It depends a lot on the game, the map and etc.
If you play YR as Iraq without SW, you'll spam Rhino with a bit of Desolator and some flak for AA defense. Allied techs up? Iraq's still the same BO since there's nothing else to buy that's worthwhile. Allied BO meanwhile changes drastically. Prisms, Mirages, Battlefortresses, Chrono, Spies, etc.

[Nyerguds]

Messaggio originale di -=DeNMaN=-:

I'm hoping the options available are the same as C&C Generals Zero Hour...

Infinite Scud Storms? :p

[OldDaddy]

I am not sure, what the mp will be.
I watched some vidz about the original game and there it was all about spaming medium tanks. Then I watched a tournament in OpenRA last weekend and it was more or less about spamming infantry.
I know, OpenRA had balance patches, and waypoints for buildings, and attack-move and the old game had not even queue for unit production.
So i guess, Remastered will be more based on the original but not only spamming 1 type of unit.

[Blogster]

Messaggio originale di Synatrax:

Messaggio originale di Blogster:

they saied multiplayer has dedicated servers why u think its peer 2 peer?
Ive someone saied that already sorry didnt read the whole thing

Of course, i can be wrong about the P2P. Im sorry. - But i couldn't find an offical proof about, it's not P2P yet. Someone has one? :)

Did u read the FAQ at all? :D

14. How will multiplayer work? and mp will be in the remaster?
Answer: MP will be in the remaster for more info, Here is the quote from one of the articles:
"At a high level, Multiplayer has effectively been rebuilt for the Remaster. Starting with the backend, Multiplayer now runs on dedicated servers based on Petroglyph’s architecture, with a goal of providing reliable connections and prevent misbehavior."

[Camper]

did play red alert online back in the day a bit on gamespy i think? maybe im wrong but i remember that in almost every game the enemy tried to rush me at the start of the game with enginers and you needed to wall off your buildings

[Jack_Burton]

I think you are in general correct about the multiplayer not being up to balanced standards of today. These games are from a totally different era in gaming:

1) RTS was basically brand new when these games came out. IMO C&C and Warcraft 2 in particular are the games that elevated RTS to the front of gaming at the time. Gamers were simply amazed at being able to build and control large armies and battles in real time.

2) Multiplayer back then was still mostly LAN based among friends, so balance was not a big concern. Of course E-sports did not exist.

3) Single player campaigns got bigger emphasis due to limited multiplayer. Games had to stand on their own to make the purchase worth it.

All that said, I think it's possible the multiplayer could be surprisingly good in today's environments. Gamers will be stretching the limits of the multiplayer more than it got back in the 90's. That could lead to some fun stuff.

E-Sports? Probably not. E-sports and RTS seem like a very tricky mix. But that doesn't mean C&C can't make for entertaining streams and YouTube videos.

Don't forget the mod community will have full access to these games. The entire MOBA genre spawned out of a mod of Warcraft 3. Other games have seen long life due to mods like Star Wars Empire at War. A mod could end up taking these games to another level.

[Kvaki]

cant wait to play it in this current century
used to play 3 way skirmish in on dialup modem in the 90s with brothers friend across the street ,my laptop and bro on family pc.

[Synatrax]

Messaggio originale di Blogster:

Messaggio originale di Synatrax:

Of course, i can be wrong about the P2P. Im sorry. - But i couldn't find an offical proof about, it's not P2P yet. Someone has one? :)

Did u read the FAQ at all? :D

14. How will multiplayer work? and mp will be in the remaster?
Answer: MP will be in the remaster for more info, Here is the quote from one of the articles:
"At a high level, Multiplayer has effectively been rebuilt for the Remaster. Starting with the backend, Multiplayer now runs on dedicated servers based on Petroglyph’s architecture, with a goal of providing reliable connections and prevent misbehavior."

Aye, sorry. I did, i guess.. So yeah, thanks for clear it up! - P2P is not an Issue then! :)
- I made it clear at my opening post! :)

Messaggio originale di Jack_Burton:

I think you are in general correct about the multiplayer not being up to balanced standards of today. These games are from a totally different era in gaming:

1) RTS was basically brand new when these games came out. IMO C&C and Warcraft 2 in particular are the games that elevated RTS to the front of gaming at the time. Gamers were simply amazed at being able to build and control large armies and battles in real time.

2) Multiplayer back then was still mostly LAN based among friends, so balance was not a big concern. Of course E-sports did not exist.

3) Single player campaigns got bigger emphasis due to limited multiplayer. Games had to stand on their own to make the purchase worth it.

All that said, I think it's possible the multiplayer could be surprisingly good in today's environments. Gamers will be stretching the limits of the multiplayer more than it got back in the 90's. That could lead to some fun stuff.

E-Sports? Probably not. E-sports and RTS seem like a very tricky mix. But that doesn't mean C&C can't make for entertaining streams and YouTube videos.

Don't forget the mod community will have full access to these games. The entire MOBA genre spawned out of a mod of Warcraft 3. Other games have seen long life due to mods like Star Wars Empire at War. A mod could end up taking these games to another level.

Very good points and thoughts. Thanks for that, mate! :)

[DefinitelyDignam]

Last time I played the original C&C multiplayer was in the 90s on dialup over a 28k modem. My friend's strategy was to mass riflemen...so I'm assuming strategies have improved since then, because I stomped him repeatedly ;)

[sansee]

I remember local LAN parties with those coaxial networks with BNC-T plugs, and though the IPX protocoll... this was just before modern internet was widespread.

https://kullabs.com/uploads/BNC.JPG
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internetwork_Packet_Exchange

Honestly, it was a bit hassle to configure it, but damn, it was way more stable than Generals multiplayer. General is a fine game, but the MP was/is a total mess :)

Nowadays there's usually no trouble at all, except for high latency with wifi or increased network/server traffic.

[Camper]

Messaggio originale di Dignam:

Last time I played the original C&C multiplayer was in the 90s on dialup over a 28k modem. My friend's strategy was to mass riflemen...so I'm assuming strategies have improved since then, because I stomped him repeatedly ;)

only thing im afraid is that nowaday everybody will build the same stuff every game because it works the best
in the past part of the fun was trying different stuff every game