Yo should i play as Jedi master or grandmaster?

[丂卩ㄖㄖ几ㄚ 丂卂ㄩㄥ]

How hard is it?

[Dregora]

引用自 soxnine：

Speaking as a Soulsborne/Sekiro veteran, I don’t think this game is very well tuned for the Grandmaster difficulty. FromSoft games are very challenging, but the tools they give you are very reliable and precise. Like with Sekiro, this game specifically wants you to lean on the parry as much as possible, but the parry command isn’t instant the way it is in Sekiro. There is a frame or two before the parry triggers...it’s not a huge window, but it’s there, and if you’ve played Sekiro, the difference will feel quite large. In the end, the parry WINDOW on Grandmaster is similar to Sekiro’s, but the parry ANIMATION has more startup frames (and recovery frames, as well), making the parry a little less effective on Grandmaster than in Sekiro, IMO. I’ve found that this means you have to rely on the dodge and dodge roll much more often, and both of those also seem to work slightly differently than in, say, Dark Souls. In DS, the I-frames basically trigger immediately on the roll, and then there are several recovery frames at the end in which you are vulnerable. In this game, the I-frames don’t seem to trigger immediately, meaning there is a small startup before they kick in.

All of this is to say that, while Grandmaster is more akin to Sekiro/Souls in difficulty, the game mechanics aren’t quite tuned for that challenge as well as FromSoft’s games are (instant parry or instant I-frames on dodge). I’m halfway through on GM difficulty, and the swordplay just isn’t as fluid or as satisfying as Sekiro‘s is. As a result, you will probably need to deploy your force powers more aggressively and strategically, as the lightsaber itself may not be enough, especially when it comes to crowd control. So my recommendation is that if you really just want to lean heavily on swordplay, Jedi Master may be the better way to go. On the other hand, if you favor the full “Jedi” experience that requires expertise in both lightsaber AND force-based combat, Grandmaster may be more fun. Both are fun and challenging, just depends on how you like to play.

This game does not rely on parrying as much as Sekiro does, at all. While I can agree that the animation can be hit or miss with some people, this isn't Sekiro. I feel that the parry was in between Dark souls and sekiro, but more like dark souls in the sense that using it makes the game easier (like in dark souls where you can do some ridiculous damage with it) but is absolutely not needed for the casual player to finish the game. It's a bit more needed/acceptable to use than dark souls, but not nearly on the levels as sekiro.

Sekiro's entire combat revolved around it. Without it, a casual player wouldn't be able to beat it at all. In fact, i'll go as far to say that 99% of the playerbase that plays or played sekiro couldn't, aside from a few very patient/unique skilled individuals.

This game gives you so many more options through the force, the double bladed lightsaber, the movement etc. And the fact the force is rechargable simply by hitting your enemy, HP or guard, is a huge difference than Sekiro's spirit emblems that require you to balance them because they do not replenish through normal means. It does in the force, everything you do combat related (except when you use the force) charges the force, so it's essentially an unlimited resource but you do have to do something for it.

I don't know where this heavy reliance/focus on parry comes from even if it's featured prominently, but ABSOLUTELY not needed. You could play this as dark souls and you could get away with it. Not so much in Sekiro.


I don't think this is a mechanic/skill problem. I think this is a personal preference problem, something I especially see from Sekiro lovers. And there's NOTHING wrong with it, Sekiro is brilliant on it's own right. But somehow people seem to think it has to be exactly like Sekiro, when it's not like Sekiro all THAT much to the point it has to be that way.

[$CRWD]

How would you all say that this, Sekiro and DS compare to Nioh?

[Tamaster]

Grandmaster ramps up the damage of enemies to levels far superior to even Sekiro / Dark Souls. It is an insanely difficult mode where pretty much every boss will 1-shot you and even trash enemies will 1-3 shot you with most attacks so you have ZERO room for any error with bosses and very small error with normal foes. This suits some kinds of players, but ultimately this was more of a chore than fun to play at least for me.

personally i found Jedi master to be the most well balanced difficulty. For me it gives out a challenge level especially with some Bosses comparable to Dark Souls which is exactly what i came looking for.

Grandmaster would be good for reduced parry time which is just fine and more aggressive enemies also very good... but the damage scaling is 3x compared to Master imo pretty ridiculous, i would suggest Grandmaster only to people with an unbreakable concentration in prolonged boss fights because that is where this difficulty will get you, normal enemies are not very hard even on grandmaster.

引用自 Parapraxis：

How would you all say that this, Sekiro and DS compare to Nioh?

On Jedi Master (Hard Difficulty) which i played most of the time:

Easier than Sekiro.
On par difficulty with Dark Souls 1.
Slightly easier than dark souls 3 if we want to compare bosses.
I didnt play Nioh.

On Grandmaster (Very Hard)

Harder than Sekiro
Way Harder than Dark Souls
Harder than Dark Souls 3 (which had the hardest Bosses of all souls games)

[GoodWolf]

引用自 Dregora：

引用自 soxnine：

Speaking as a Soulsborne/Sekiro veteran, I don’t think this game is very well tuned for the Grandmaster difficulty. FromSoft games are very challenging, but the tools they give you are very reliable and precise. Like with Sekiro, this game specifically wants you to lean on the parry as much as possible, but the parry command isn’t instant the way it is in Sekiro. There is a frame or two before the parry triggers...it’s not a huge window, but it’s there, and if you’ve played Sekiro, the difference will feel quite large. In the end, the parry WINDOW on Grandmaster is similar to Sekiro’s, but the parry ANIMATION has more startup frames (and recovery frames, as well), making the parry a little less effective on Grandmaster than in Sekiro, IMO. I’ve found that this means you have to rely on the dodge and dodge roll much more often, and both of those also seem to work slightly differently than in, say, Dark Souls. In DS, the I-frames basically trigger immediately on the roll, and then there are several recovery frames at the end in which you are vulnerable. In this game, the I-frames don’t seem to trigger immediately, meaning there is a small startup before they kick in.

All of this is to say that, while Grandmaster is more akin to Sekiro/Souls in difficulty, the game mechanics aren’t quite tuned for that challenge as well as FromSoft’s games are (instant parry or instant I-frames on dodge). I’m halfway through on GM difficulty, and the swordplay just isn’t as fluid or as satisfying as Sekiro‘s is. As a result, you will probably need to deploy your force powers more aggressively and strategically, as the lightsaber itself may not be enough, especially when it comes to crowd control. So my recommendation is that if you really just want to lean heavily on swordplay, Jedi Master may be the better way to go. On the other hand, if you favor the full “Jedi” experience that requires expertise in both lightsaber AND force-based combat, Grandmaster may be more fun. Both are fun and challenging, just depends on how you like to play.

This game does not rely on parrying as much as Sekiro does, at all. While I can agree that the animation can be hit or miss with some people, this isn't Sekiro. I feel that the parry was in between Dark souls and sekiro, but more like dark souls in the sense that using it makes the game easier (like in dark souls where you can do some ridiculous damage with it) but is absolutely not needed for the casual player to finish the game. It's a bit more needed/acceptable to use than dark souls, but not nearly on the levels as sekiro.

Sekiro's entire combat revolved around it. Without it, a casual player wouldn't be able to beat it at all. In fact, i'll go as far to say that 99% of the playerbase that plays or played sekiro couldn't, aside from a few very patient/unique skilled individuals.

This game gives you so many more options through the force, the double bladed lightsaber, the movement etc. And the fact the force is rechargable simply by hitting your enemy, HP or guard, is a huge difference than Sekiro's spirit emblems that require you to balance them because they do not replenish through normal means. It does in the force, everything you do combat related (except when you use the force) charges the force, so it's essentially an unlimited resource but you do have to do something for it.

I don't know where this heavy reliance/focus on parry comes from even if it's featured prominently, but ABSOLUTELY not needed. You could play this as dark souls and you could get away with it. Not so much in Sekiro.


I don't think this is a mechanic/skill problem. I think this is a personal preference problem, something I especially see from Sekiro lovers. And there's NOTHING wrong with it, Sekiro is brilliant on it's own right. But somehow people seem to think it has to be exactly like Sekiro, when it's not like Sekiro all THAT much to the point it has to be that way.

I feel like I should clarify that my comparison of this game to Sekiro is specifically related to swordplay. You are correct that Jedi as a whole is not actually expecting you to rely solely on the parry (that’s why I noted that, in order to be successful, you need to employ the dodge and force powers, as well), but the swordplay itself really encourages you to use parry heavily, partly because of the force meter reward, and partly because the dodge/roll is a bit under powered (much like it is in Sekiro). Both of these mechanics encourage you to maintain engagement and be aggressive, but the parry mechanic is too underpowered to support sustained engagement. Thus, while Sekiro’s difficulty and JFO’s Grandmaster difficulty are comparable, the swordplay alone in JFO is not tuned for that difficulty (whereas Sekiro’s is), specifically because the parry is not fast enough to support it. I don’t expect this game to be a carbon copy of Sekiro at all, I’m just pointing out that, while the difficulty levels are similar, the gameplay is not (which I think we actually agree on). Furthermore, I also personally feel that, until you get later in the game and force meter becomes easier to maintain (no further details here to avoid spoilers), NONE of the tools you have, collectively, are really good enough to support GM difficulty, period, meaning there will be times in combat where you just don’t have any options, not because you f’d up, but because the mechanics (i.e. startup/recovery frames and force meter/force regeneration) are not perfectly balanced. As noted previously, you will need to rely heavily on the dodge and roll (unlike Sekiro), which is fine, but the dodge roll also isn’t as effective as Dark Souls because of how the I-frames work. So, no, this game does not HAVE to be like Sekiro or DS, but some of the mechanics are clearly very similar, and IMO, JFO’s are not quite as well engineered as FromSoft’s games are. I’ve played all the way through now on GM, and things do come together more as you power Cal up, but it’s never quite as tight or as polished as Sekiro or Dark Souls, IMO. Still a great game in its own right, but these are things people should know, especially if they’re expecting a Sekiro/Souls-like based on all the reviews.

[Snow]

引用自 The Great Milenko：

if you have played through Sekiro this game is easy.

Sekiro is not that hard, once you get the hand in combat.

[Jotun]

引用自 Tamaster：

Grandmaster ramps up the damage of enemies to levels far superior to even Sekiro / Dark Souls. It is an insanely difficult mode where pretty much every boss will 1-shot you and even trash enemies will 1-3 shot you with most attacks so you have ZERO room for any error with bosses and very small error with normal foes. This suits some kinds of players, but ultimately this was more of a chore than fun to play at least for me.

personally i found Jedi master to be the most well balanced difficulty. For me it gives out a challenge level especially with some Bosses comparable to Dark Souls which is exactly what i came looking for.

Grandmaster would be good for reduced parry time which is just fine and more aggressive enemies also very good... but the damage scaling is 3x compared to Master imo pretty ridiculous, i would suggest Grandmaster only to people with an unbreakable concentration in prolonged boss fights because that is where this difficulty will get you, normal enemies are not very hard even on grandmaster.

引用自 Parapraxis：

How would you all say that this, Sekiro and DS compare to Nioh?

On Jedi Master (Hard Difficulty) which i played most of the time:

Easier than Sekiro.
On par difficulty with Dark Souls 1.
Slightly easier than dark souls 3 if we want to compare bosses.
I didnt play Nioh.

On Grandmaster (Very Hard)

Harder than Sekiro
Way Harder than Dark Souls
Harder than Dark Souls 3 (which had the hardest Bosses of all souls games)

I disagree. Sekiro with demon bell and/or without the charm was way harder IMO.

In Sekiro you have to fight bosses so much that you almost perfect them. Last time I fought the last boss he hit me maybe twice (and he must be the boss I have retried the most in my entire life as a gamer). I find the ridiculously small parry window + long wind up and recover time in Grandmaster way more detrimental to my enjoyment of the game than the 3x damage scaling which is alright.

I also think bosses in Sekiro were harder than DkS III (my first run was with the bell demon on though).

[Myriandore]

Mind if I necro this?
Never played Sekiro or Dark Souls, I was wondering why except on lower ranking troopers, I could never get the measure of parrying, Feels sorta better to have it confirmed I'm not desperately bad. I played all modes from story to enjoy the ride with no hassle but also learn the mechanics. Now on GM, just got taken to the arena, sigh ;D
I know master allowed brute force and generic attacks, where GM doesn't. It srsly sucks having it confirmed I can't totally rely on skills, but instead gimmicks and secondrate tactics. This made a hole in my resolve sorta... oh well, we'll see... Things we do because we love the star wars universe...

[CJM]

引用自 Myriandore：

Mind if I necro this?
Never played Sekiro or Dark Souls, I was wondering why except on lower ranking troopers, I could never get the measure of parrying, Feels sorta better to have it confirmed I'm not desperately bad.

Having read through the thread you necro'd, the gist of the conversation seems to be that for the Dark Souls type players, the parry is poor.

They talk about a vulnerable few frames at the end of the parry, which might be a pause to allow for a "finishing move", that can leave you vulnerable if the follow up attack is not executed.

When dealing with boss type enemies, there are often repeated parries that must be executed in succession. This makes me wonder if the extra frames occur against these enemies also. Such that the Arena might result in particular issues with the parry.

A focus on dodging and crowd control was the recommended focus in posts above.

It would seem that the parry in Jedi Fallen Order is depended upon two attack indicators, an "early warning", and then the attack itself. The "early warning" indicator might arrive too soon to trigger the parry, which means your focus is being held on one enemy, leaving you vulnerable to other attacking foes.

Some enemies have clear and easily identifiable audio cues, many of them being lower ranking troopers. With them you could parry by sound and not by sight.

Crowd Control of course depends on what force powers you have focused on unlocking. It may be that you need a strategy for tackling the arena that you implement from the very start of the game regarding force power selection.

引用自 Myriandore：

I played all modes from story to enjoy the ride with no hassle but also learn the mechanics. Now on GM, just got taken to the arena, sigh ;D

Did you go straight from Story to Grand Master? The extremely relaxed parry timing on Story is likely to make it impossible to learn the mechanics properly.

Kind of a downside for Story Mode. You get the reduced damage making the game more forgiving which allows you to experiment, but then the experimenting is such that you don't discover and train for the exact timing you need on the higher difficulty.

I think the other enemies needing crowd control also stand back and idle more often on Story. This would be beneficial for focusing on parry timing and dodging against a single opponent

[Myriandore]

引用自 CJM：

Did you go straight from Story to Grand Master? The extremely relaxed parry timing on Story is likely to make it impossible to learn the mechanics properly.

Yes, something gets lost in translation in story mode, but I expected that. The aim was a hustle free, scenic route ride.
I completed the campaign playing each mode though. The purpose was to improve skills on a progressive, forgiving learning curve. And because cruising through the game I already knew was fun.

Just managed to put the arena to bed after about 15 tries. It felt like a proper GM challenge compared to the (rooftop) walker. I'm an average player; so chuffed and surprised at the same time I've managed to get that far.

I appreciate you elaborating on the nuances of the above convo. The open ended frame expecting an attack combo makes total sense now, having been in that situation.

[Hotel Security]

>I completed the campaign playing each mode though. The purpose was to improve skills on a progressive, forgiving learning curve.

This is always a poor way to handle challenge. You won't learn anything on Easier modes. It'll just make you lazy and form bad habits since you can play sloppy and still win fights. There's no "progressive curve"...you just run through the game like it's nothing. About all you'll learn is enemy layouts but this is more useful on something like a shooter where it's good to know where enemies spawn compared to one like this that just throws a group at you at a time.

If you want to get better at a game just start it on hard. The game isn't going to kick your ass right from the beginning and you can easy yourself in. I even practiced parries on the first stormtroopers at the start even if I got killed while practicing. You better as the game goes and by the time it ACTUALLY gets hard, you have all the skills already.

---

I very much disagree with the pseudo-scientific nonsense on parries. The game has plenty of telegraphs, certainly more than the average Souls game, and even with the Hard mode sensitivity on parries dropped, I found myself pretty damn consistent on them. Was there a few fights where I just couldn't get the timing down and got wrecked?...Of course there were. But there wouldn't be challenge if I was perfect on them every time. As for the counter being slower?...I guess, but who says the counter has to land every time?...I know plenty that missed in Bloodborne. Just be faster next time.

All I can is the final boss was VERY rewarding on the hardest mode. I find it rare when plot battles challenge me in a video game, even on hard, but the final boss ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ delivered. I went from dying in seconds to having to learn every move and the timing on it and when and how to counter. Felt very much like a God of War or Souls fight to me.

[Myriandore]

Compared to me, you must be an exceptionally skilled player then. More power to you.

I actually started the game on Master mode and found it too tough. So I said to myself "sod it" and played it strictly to appreciate the story. I'm not expecting others to understand; that worked for me.
By then I loved the game so much, I moved to Knight mode looking forward to climbing each difficulty level and repeat the journey.
I then completed it on Grand Master - and 3 (or was it 4...) shotted the last boss.

Yes it felt super rewarding.
But oddly, I found the last boss easier than on Master mode. Don't get me wrong, Master wasn't a walk in the park. But I was expecting a MUCH tougher fight. I guess having played each difficulty mode was paying way more dividends than needed. Still, I loved it!

Jedi Survivor won't behave on my rig, so right now I'm closing in on chievos (3 left). I stopped hoping for patch 8. But who knows...

Happy hunting.

[Myriandore]

ps - I did very little parries on boss fights. that was hardly needed imo; especially the last boss. I demolished her using push to interrupt and rushed her.
And used slow to easily dispatch black clad troopers (forgot their name).
Shame though, I'd have loved to get the hang of parry; but again, some players have better reflexes and you must be one of those.