Since Mordred is a tank with no taunt skill should I...

[Terrapin]

Since Mordred is a tank with no taunt should I focus on buffing his attack damage with skills early and try to make him more of a dps character?

[Kael]

Lots of useful info here, definitely will try Mordred as a main tank on very hard if I get the right equipment. You guys have made excellent points.

[Terrapin]

Good stuff. Thanks for the advice.

[76561199121805861]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Amaj7susb5:

On hard - Mordred for me has been a just fine tank. Since he's required on so many missions, it doesn't make as much sense to not take him on all of them as he won't gain as much xp via training as missions so the further the game goes on , the further behind he'll get in levels compared to your A team.

In reality , he can do what both sides of the discussion have been saying.

At lvl 20 , my Mordred has these key elements :
T1: Sigma fully buffed
T2: Flurry w/shred+damage; Armorer w/double thick skinned
T3: Shield Block w/flank defense; Recoup w/armor and benediction; Resistance+Vitality
With leftover points you could further buff those above how you want (like I got the skill where he gets HP per hit since I got 3 hit flurry and figured that's healing x3 every round) and would suggest putting nothing into shield slam. It's very weak and it's not hardly usable once enemies swarm so it becomes super limited and not worth putting points into. You should have enough points to flesh him out how you like after those core elements. I thought also all game that mental and physical resis would be really important -but on hard I've come to the conclusion it's ok to have around 30-40%. It probably is critical on Endgame but not the story at all.

This means he shreds armor, debuffs enemies and takes a pounding and can dish out a little pain if you have a decent weapon.

The gear you put on him will also greatly influence how good he is. My mordred has armor with lots of unbreakable armor, ignores incoming armor break and has mental buffs.
Like said above, if you throw him in a crowd, he can just take a mad beating and you don't need taunt as mobs will stick to him if you put ranged behind.

He's never died on me and he's been on every mission. He's also never been in the hospice or cathedral for healing/injuries. I finished the main campaign and am on Endgame.

I played on a combination of hard and very hard. He can do both and be a solid A tier (where Vanguards are lets say S tier).

That's correct.
All in all,Mordred is slightly imbalanced character.
If anyone think he is weak comparing to other defender that's the game comprehending issues.
He is a A tier role compare to all the characters in this game for current version.

[Blacksnake]

Playing on very hard and Mordred is fine. All builds and your experience in the game will come down to gear RNG. He can acquire tons of armor, blocks, has good/great resistance and you can get a mutation that gives him 10% dodge if you want to be an a-hole. You charge him into the guts of the enemy and put him in melee range of the biggest threats. Enemies will try to attack your squishies, so you WILL need to know how to mitigate/avoid damage on them dudes. But it's not as hard as these cats make it out to be.

[Njall]

Well, sorry guys, but all the points made in favour of Mordred boil down to "if you deck him out with good gear, then he's good".
Yeah, so is every other knight in the game (except for Marksmen. But we don't talk about Marksmen).
Aside from the fact that there are other defenders with both shield charge (which can thus built as Mordred) and taunt, stuff like taunt+guard opens up a bunch of interesting tactics which Mordred can't provide.
For example: first turn have the enemy rush your first line, bolstering their armor with Guard. Meanwhile, save AP. As soon as the enemy units are all nicely stacked around your party, either teleport the tank (1/encounter items aren't that hard to come by) or use shield charge (harder to do, but you can manage) behind their lines, and taunt them. Then, watch them turn their back to your damage dealers and have fun mowing them down (as long as your damage dealers aren't Marksmen).

Mordred is decent at taking a blow and has self healing, he's good at CC'ing stuff, can be built to do decent damage, and one could argue that you don't really need dedicated tanks in this game to succeed, since you can just check the enemy's movement and keep your units out of melee range, but this still doesn't make him a good tank, especially when compared to the other defenders.
He severly lacks single target damage mid-late game, the only utility spell outside of CC is Stigma, which bosses tend to be immune to and his skill tree is all over the place (why give him Cleave when he's got Flurry+Sweeping Strikes already, for example?).

Can he be fun and satisfying to play? Absolutely. I stack +backstab and + damage on movement on his relics and use him to kill/control archers and spellcasters, for example, and he's pretty effective in that role.

But compared to the focused, coherent skill tree of most defenders, to the AP-management focused champion gameplay or to the vanguard's and sage's mobility (well, ok, to Guenevievre's and Lucan's mobility... but you get my point) he's not really that good, in my experience.
Solid middle-of-the-pack, nothing more.

Now, if we're talking Marksmen? Yeah, he's damn good compared to them :P

[Ishtar]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Njall:

Well, sorry guys, but all the points made in favour of Mordred boil down to "if you deck him out with good gear, then he's good".
Yeah, so is every other knight in the game (except for Marksmen. But we don't talk about Marksmen).
Aside from the fact that there are other defenders with both shield charge (which can thus built as Mordred) and taunt, stuff like taunt+guard opens up a bunch of interesting tactics which Mordred can't provide.
For example: first turn have the enemy rush your first line, bolstering their armor with Guard. Meanwhile, save AP. As soon as the enemy units are all nicely stacked around your party, either teleport the tank (1/encounter items aren't that hard to come by) or use shield charge (harder to do, but you can manage) behind their lines, and taunt them. Then, watch them turn their back to your damage dealers and have fun mowing them down (as long as your damage dealers aren't Marksmen).

Mordred is decent at taking a blow and has self healing, he's good at CC'ing stuff, can be built to do decent damage, and one could argue that you don't really need dedicated tanks in this game to succeed, since you can just check the enemy's movement and keep your units out of melee range, but this still doesn't make him a good tank, especially when compared to the other defenders.
He severly lacks single target damage mid-late game, the only utility spell outside of CC is Stigma, which bosses tend to be immune to and his skill tree is all over the place (why give him Cleave when he's got Flurry+Sweeping Strikes already, for example?).

Can he be fun and satisfying to play? Absolutely. I stack +backstab and + damage on movement on his relics and use him to kill/control archers and spellcasters, for example, and he's pretty effective in that role.

But compared to the focused, coherent skill tree of most defenders, to the AP-management focused champion gameplay or to the vanguard's and sage's mobility (well, ok, to Guenevievre's and Lucan's mobility... but you get my point) he's not really that good, in my experience.
Solid middle-of-the-pack, nothing more.

Now, if we're talking Marksmen? Yeah, he's damn good compared to them :P

Nope , Mordred is good without equip too, the equip just devines what roles he can fill , which is exactly the same with every other Defender in the game. if you dont have to equip for a tank , that tank goes down fast then you can cry about it , especially on very hard. Mordred is just meant to be a damage dealer and supporter and not a tank. And no , being a Defender does not change anything about that statement. he has good block and a lot of sustain with a lot of life leech. with movement damage + kill damage on only 2 items he becomes a monster, and he can soften up his own targets. something no other defender can do. and just so we are clear: every other damage build , be it champion of vanguard has exactly the same item problems that Mordred has. without the right items these classes don't do sh*t.
And though i am half way with you on Marksmen , turns out if you start to adapt your play with marksmen , they are a menace. charge and teleport and shooting into the backs of enemies + fire is one hell of an effective strategy, i was very astounded how much you can get out of them. just as a tip, you might want to try it yourself.

[Njall]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ishtar:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Njall:

Well, sorry guys, but all the points made in favour of Mordred boil down to "if you deck him out with good gear, then he's good".
Yeah, so is every other knight in the game (except for Marksmen. But we don't talk about Marksmen).
Aside from the fact that there are other defenders with both shield charge (which can thus built as Mordred) and taunt, stuff like taunt+guard opens up a bunch of interesting tactics which Mordred can't provide.
For example: first turn have the enemy rush your first line, bolstering their armor with Guard. Meanwhile, save AP. As soon as the enemy units are all nicely stacked around your party, either teleport the tank (1/encounter items aren't that hard to come by) or use shield charge (harder to do, but you can manage) behind their lines, and taunt them. Then, watch them turn their back to your damage dealers and have fun mowing them down (as long as your damage dealers aren't Marksmen).

Mordred is decent at taking a blow and has self healing, he's good at CC'ing stuff, can be built to do decent damage, and one could argue that you don't really need dedicated tanks in this game to succeed, since you can just check the enemy's movement and keep your units out of melee range, but this still doesn't make him a good tank, especially when compared to the other defenders.
He severly lacks single target damage mid-late game, the only utility spell outside of CC is Stigma, which bosses tend to be immune to and his skill tree is all over the place (why give him Cleave when he's got Flurry+Sweeping Strikes already, for example?).

Can he be fun and satisfying to play? Absolutely. I stack +backstab and + damage on movement on his relics and use him to kill/control archers and spellcasters, for example, and he's pretty effective in that role.

But compared to the focused, coherent skill tree of most defenders, to the AP-management focused champion gameplay or to the vanguard's and sage's mobility (well, ok, to Guenevievre's and Lucan's mobility... but you get my point) he's not really that good, in my experience.
Solid middle-of-the-pack, nothing more.

Now, if we're talking Marksmen? Yeah, he's damn good compared to them :P

Nope , Mordred is good without equip too, the equip just devines what roles he can fill , which is exactly the same with every other Defender in the game. if you dont have to equip for a tank , that tank goes down fast then you can cry about it , especially on very hard. Mordred is just meant to be a damage dealer and supporter and not a tank. And no , being a Defender does not change anything about that statement. he has good block and a lot of sustain with a lot of life leech. with movement damage + kill damage on only 2 items he becomes a monster, and he can soften up his own targets. something no other defender can do. and just so we are clear: every other damage build , be it champion of vanguard has exactly the same item problems that Mordred has. without the right items these classes don't do sh*t.
And though i am half way with you on Marksmen , turns out if you start to adapt your play with marksmen , they are a menace. charge and teleport and shooting into the backs of enemies + fire is one hell of an effective strategy, i was very astounded how much you can get out of them. just as a tip, you might want to try it yourself.

If he's supposed to be a damage dealer, someone did a pretty bad job at it. He's at best decent at dealing damage, and at worst irrelevant.
Sure, you need good equipment to have an effective character, but if other characters with the same equipment (and the same class) are better than him (and they are, as they provide everything Mordred does except for the AoE shock, which is pretty nice, but not indispensible) then Mordred is flat out worse than them.
Every defender has "good block and sustain", as all of them get Block and Unyelding.
Same goes for shield charge, most defenders have it, and they get other goodies on top of it (like Galahad's Taunt+Guard, or Gawayn's Death Strike for a bit of much needed single target damage).

Also, how does he "soften up his targets"? Both Chain Lightning and Lightning strike cost a boatload of his AP (which are already fewer the the other defenders' due to the lack of loyalty bonuses, which, BTW, cost Mordred a 20% damage bonus, making him flat out worse at damage dealing.) and are based on his weapon damage, which is pretty low to begin with. Sure, as soon as he gets a kill streak going, he can be pretty good, but again, that's hardly unique to him in this game, it goes for every other defender with the same equipment AND for pretty much every other class (a champion that gets a kill streak going, for example, can essentially start one shotting stuff way more easily than Mordred can, because they have actual skills supporting that playstyle, instead of just a couple of items).

As an aside, I did play with marksmen until like level 20. Just like Mordred, they can be decent, when equipped for the job... their problem, however, is that their attacks, on average, cost as much as a champion's and deal far less damage.
They can stack decent damage modifiers on their base attack, but only if their target is susceptible to status effects, and they need it debuffed before they start to pump the damage.
Meanwhile, a champion or a vanguard that manages to backstab something will generally make short work of it in a single round, no prep needed.
Vanguards get back 2AP/kill (even after the patch), and their attacks cost 3 AP.
Champions have durability, AoE capability which the marksmen lack, some CC in the form of a stun (Kay gets a knockdown on top of it) and great single target damage. Later on, they get free attacks on kills.
Sure, the marksmens' mobility is nice, but other classes just do it better and aren't as squishy (vanguards, but also sages).

Just like Mordred, but to a greater extent, they aren't bad per se, or incapable of dealing with the challenge the game provides, they're just worse then the alternatives, for the most part.

[Kael]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Njall:

If he's supposed to be a damage dealer, someone did a pretty bad job at it. He's at best decent at dealing damage, and at worst irrelevant.
Sure, you need good equipment to have an effective character, but if other characters with the same equipment (and the same class) are better than him (and they are, as they provide everything Mordred does except for the AoE shock, which is pretty nice, but not indispensible) then Mordred is flat out worse than them.
Every defender has "good block and sustain", as all of them get Block and Unyelding.
Same goes for shield charge, most defenders have it, and they get other goodies on top of it (like Galahad's Taunt+Guard, or Gawayn's Death Strike for a bit of much needed single target damage).

Also, how does he "soften up his targets"? Both Chain Lightning and Lightning strike cost a boatload of his AP (which are already fewer the the other defenders' due to the lack of loyalty bonuses, which, BTW, cost Mordred a 20% damage bonus, making him flat out worse at damage dealing.) and are based on his weapon damage, which is pretty low to begin with. Sure, as soon as he gets a kill streak going, he can be pretty good, but again, that's hardly unique to him in this game, it goes for every other defender with the same equipment AND for pretty much every other class (a champion that gets a kill streak going, for example, can essentially start one shotting stuff way more easily than Mordred can, because they have actual skills supporting that playstyle, instead of just a couple of items).

I agree with pretty much everything you stated. You can give another defender the same equipment as Mordred and they'll be much more useful than him. Like you said, most tanks do get regeneration per hit and shield charge . The only think the main character has that other defenders lack is the single target and AoE lighting skills which are laughable when compared to the AoE of Merlin or Sir Ector for example (Massive AoE fire damage every turn with the right equipment that affect cooldown) plus his Tier 1 Hex which is decent but useless against bosses.

Furthermore he replaces Taunt and Guard for those lighting skills which can generate armour every turn.

Am I missing something or do I just dont understand how hes meant to be played? I did complete the game on Hard/Very Hard so im not totally hopeless ahah

[76561199121805861]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Njall:

Well, sorry guys, but all the points made in favour of Mordred boil down to "if you deck him out with good gear, then he's good".
Yeah, so is every other knight in the game (except for Marksmen. But we don't talk about Marksmen).
Aside from the fact that there are other defenders with both shield charge (which can thus built as Mordred) and taunt, stuff like taunt+guard opens up a bunch of interesting tactics which Mordred can't provide.
For example: first turn have the enemy rush your first line, bolstering their armor with Guard. Meanwhile, save AP. As soon as the enemy units are all nicely stacked around your party, either teleport the tank (1/encounter items aren't that hard to come by) or use shield charge (harder to do, but you can manage) behind their lines, and taunt them. Then, watch them turn their back to your damage dealers and have fun mowing them down (as long as your damage dealers aren't Marksmen).

Mordred is decent at taking a blow and has self healing, he's good at CC'ing stuff, can be built to do decent damage, and one could argue that you don't really need dedicated tanks in this game to succeed, since you can just check the enemy's movement and keep your units out of melee range, but this still doesn't make him a good tank, especially when compared to the other defenders.
He severly lacks single target damage mid-late game, the only utility spell outside of CC is Stigma, which bosses tend to be immune to and his skill tree is all over the place (why give him Cleave when he's got Flurry+Sweeping Strikes already, for example?).

Can he be fun and satisfying to play? Absolutely. I stack +backstab and + damage on movement on his relics and use him to kill/control archers and spellcasters, for example, and he's pretty effective in that role.

But compared to the focused, coherent skill tree of most defenders, to the AP-management focused champion gameplay or to the vanguard's and sage's mobility (well, ok, to Guenevievre's and Lucan's mobility... but you get my point) he's not really that good, in my experience.
Solid middle-of-the-pack, nothing more.

Now, if we're talking Marksmen? Yeah, he's damn good compared to them :P

You are wrong and your logistic is in a chaos situation.
What difficulty are you play?

Compare to other knights,Mordred have a very useful traits +20%vitality per mission,
which makes him great while you are in dangerous situation.

And spam the relic potion on him will always be a correct decision.
So he also get+10% dodge and +5%block compare to other defender.
Which makes him more durable than them.
If you put potion on a defender and later you find there is a better character so you choose not to using this one.Your potion effect can't move to new knight so
you put yourself at a embarrassed situation.

His defense and offense are balanced and useful.
At mid game the resources must pour on rouge or champion so normally
other knights are watching them to play.
Taunt at this scenarios are not that useful,since your support and ranged knights have 1 cost teleport or just step back and using a very ranged skills.
Most of time Merlin and Morgana for example can complete lock down the melee units of enemies.
So there are no need for taunt and mass temp armor since they have magic armor have teleport and hide after teleport.
Taunt also can't protect ranged unit from enemy's archer since they are far away from your tank.
But Mordred can. Chain lighting or stun.

As a result,your so called good defender reserve their full AP most of time so their AP using efficiency are pretty low.

And you have to face a problem whether to bring them at main mission line as game continues,since there are only 4 slots.

If you face 10 Pelleas as AI there is nothing big deal. Their dmg is low,they can never touch a sage or mage with teleport.
If you face 10 Mordred as AI there is a wipe. Stun and -AP always with you.

[Njall]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kevin:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Njall:

Well, sorry guys, but all the points made in favour of Mordred boil down to "if you deck him out with good gear, then he's good".
Yeah, so is every other knight in the game (except for Marksmen. But we don't talk about Marksmen).
Aside from the fact that there are other defenders with both shield charge (which can thus built as Mordred) and taunt, stuff like taunt+guard opens up a bunch of interesting tactics which Mordred can't provide.
For example: first turn have the enemy rush your first line, bolstering their armor with Guard. Meanwhile, save AP. As soon as the enemy units are all nicely stacked around your party, either teleport the tank (1/encounter items aren't that hard to come by) or use shield charge (harder to do, but you can manage) behind their lines, and taunt them. Then, watch them turn their back to your damage dealers and have fun mowing them down (as long as your damage dealers aren't Marksmen).

Mordred is decent at taking a blow and has self healing, he's good at CC'ing stuff, can be built to do decent damage, and one could argue that you don't really need dedicated tanks in this game to succeed, since you can just check the enemy's movement and keep your units out of melee range, but this still doesn't make him a good tank, especially when compared to the other defenders.
He severly lacks single target damage mid-late game, the only utility spell outside of CC is Stigma, which bosses tend to be immune to and his skill tree is all over the place (why give him Cleave when he's got Flurry+Sweeping Strikes already, for example?).

Can he be fun and satisfying to play? Absolutely. I stack +backstab and + damage on movement on his relics and use him to kill/control archers and spellcasters, for example, and he's pretty effective in that role.

But compared to the focused, coherent skill tree of most defenders, to the AP-management focused champion gameplay or to the vanguard's and sage's mobility (well, ok, to Guenevievre's and Lucan's mobility... but you get my point) he's not really that good, in my experience.
Solid middle-of-the-pack, nothing more.

Now, if we're talking Marksmen? Yeah, he's damn good compared to them :P

You are wrong and your logistic is in a chaos situation.
What difficulty are you play?

Compare to other knights,Mordred have a very useful traits +20%vitality per mission,
which makes him great while you are in dangerous situation.

And spam the relic potion on him will always be a correct decision.
So he also get+10% dodge and +5%block compare to other defender.
Which makes him more durable than them.
If you put potion on a defender and later you find there is a better character so you choose not to using this one.Your potion effect can't move to new knight so
you put yourself at a embarrassed situation.

His defense and offense are balanced and useful.
At mid game the resources must pour on rouge or champion so normally
other knights are watching them to play.
Taunt at this scenarios are not that useful,since your support and ranged knights have 1 cost teleport or just step back and using a very ranged skills.
Most of time Merlin and Morgana for example can complete lock down the melee units of enemies.
So there are no need for taunt and mass temp armor since they have magic armor have teleport and hide after teleport.
Taunt also can't protect ranged unit from enemy's archer since they are far away from your tank.
But Mordred can. Chain lighting or stun.

As a result,your so called good defender reserve their full AP most of time so their AP using efficiency are pretty low.

And you have to face a problem whether to bring them at main mission line as game continues,since there are only 4 slots.

If you face 10 Pelleas as AI there is nothing big deal. Their dmg is low,they can never touch a sage or mage with teleport.
If you face 10 Mordred as AI there is a wipe. Stun and -AP always with you.

Dude, for someone who criticizes someone's else logic, you seem to fail at logic 101.
If you stack everything you get on him, he'll be better, obviously.
If you slap the same stuff (potions and items) on someone else, they'll perform better.

His trait is useful, but it is a) budgeted in the character, as are all traits and b) all units get traits. c) it doesn't even work like you say.
Fast metabolism cures Mordred of 20% of his vitality AFTER THE MISSION.
Which means that during the course of the mission, he's exactly as durable as any other defender. If you end up in a "sticky situation" you'll be slightly less durable than, say, Galahad, who can at least increase his armor through guard.

Anyway, fast metabolism isn't bad, as far as traits go, but it doesn't even come up in every mission, and the only thing that guarantees is that Mordred, as the main character, is able to take part in most missions.
However, +20% damage and 1 AP is by far better (and it's a "trait" that every other defender gets, because, guess what, they've got a loyality track, which Mordred doesn't get).

As for fighting stunning mobs, If you're still struggling with stuns at higher levels, I don't know what to tell you. Buff your resistances, grab the potion that makes you immune, grab some relics. Also, Mordred can only stun one unit every two turns.
And he can only knockdown units with <50% physical resistance, so it's not like he'll stun your entire party.
Exactly like most non-trash mobs, which Mordred cannot stun (or can only stun in part) mobs (and non-existant AI Mordreds) shouldn't be able to stun your front line when you get to a decent level.
At most, he'll cost you some AP
As an aside, my so-called good defender uses his AP to avoid damage and enable his damage dealers to deal actual damage, instead of gimmicky charges, so it's not really wasted.

If you still don't get my logic, I'll summarize here: Mordred's skill tree is an unfocused mess. He's good at soaking damage and decent at cc'ing stuff, but he's not good at tanking and not particularly good at dealing damage.
And for someone that seems pretty critical of someone else's opinion, it seems that you didn't even bother to check how half the stuff you're discussing works, so, yeah?

[Abel]

Mordred does indeed mix some defending and control abilities. He doesn't excel at either but can bring some utility, depending on your party. For example, Chain Lightning value increases the more AP debuffs your team can apply.

However, he doesn't have the traditional supporting skills of Defenders in Taunt and Guard. So, while he'll hold out his own outnumbered, he won't be able to control enemies optimally and they may choose to ignore him and strike your back line. Of course, there are other variables that will affect that.

He will never perform as well as a specialized damage dealer for the reasons Njall expressed. The Keeper of the Excalibur trait (+5% damage/relic) was probably meant to compensate for the lack of Loyalty bonus but it's currently bugged and disappears after a time.

I would not grant him a spot in my ideal team but for me, he's more of a reliable choice when everything and everyone else fails (whatever the reason). Not ideal but reliable, especially in the early game.

[My Killer Shack]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kael:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von NzFox:

the AI doesn't break melee, so if you engage them with a tank character they will get stuck to them, the charge skill is really good for this and can be used while already in melee to move to another target.
They always target the most 'squishy' person in range though which is why you hide champions behind the tank out of melee range until after the AI has engaged and used their turn, then you can move and get 2 attacks due to saved AP which tends to be enough to kill most things. You can use defensive stance when you mess up and there is something left alive or if you need to move back behind the tank to absorb attacks of opportunity.

That's correct.

If you are flanked, swarmed or can't funnel the enemy properly, they will target the weakest knight (and usually my Sir Ector meets Jesus). I found that when I taunt them, they break engagement and allow me to score an attack of opportunity.
On Hard and very hard I found positioning to be crucial or even defenders will fall after a few turns.

im playing on hard with mordred as my only defender and ive had no issues so far

[Ishtar]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Njall:

If he's supposed to be a damage dealer, someone did a pretty bad job at it. He's at best decent at dealing damage, and at worst irrelevant.
Sure, you need good equipment to have an effective character, but if other characters with the same equipment (and the same class) are better than him (and they are, as they provide everything Mordred does except for the AoE shock, which is pretty nice, but not indispensible) then Mordred is flat out worse than them.
Every defender has "good block and sustain", as all of them get Block and Unyelding.
Same goes for shield charge, most defenders have it, and they get other goodies on top of it (like Galahad's Taunt+Guard, or Gawayn's Death Strike for a bit of much needed single target damage).

Also, how does he "soften up his targets"? Both Chain Lightning and Lightning strike cost a boatload of his AP (which are already fewer the the other defenders' due to the lack of loyalty bonuses, which, BTW, cost Mordred a 20% damage bonus, making him flat out worse at damage dealing.) and are based on his weapon damage, which is pretty low to begin with. Sure, as soon as he gets a kill streak going, he can be pretty good, but again, that's hardly unique to him in this game, it goes for every other defender with the same equipment AND for pretty much every other class (a champion that gets a kill streak going, for example, can essentially start one shotting stuff way more easily than Mordred can, because they have actual skills supporting that playstyle, instead of just a couple of items).

Bold statement about Mordred^^. Like the Devs commented on Mordred , since he is required in about 50% of the missions , it was anticipated ,that he does get the best Potions, which is a logical assumption. 2nd Chainlighning costs 4AP hits 4 Targets for 120% + static. positioned right you even get backstab bonus. His cleave does 155% to the main target and 135% to the other two. Stigma of course softens up a target by making it vulnarable and decresing its armor. the single target Thunder stuns if u like (which i don't btw) and does 150% + armor reduction. even if you leave ST-thunder out of that his skills cost 4 AP , stigma 1 , and he has a boatload of AP allready in the midgame Lvl 15+. For example Guinivere , Isolde , Lancelot is my old Faith go to team. Guinivere does inspire twice a turn the otheres once. With somewhere around 20+AP. not to mention the AP-refund for kills and hits, Mordred has plenty of room to soften up targets and then you just charge from target to target and kill the whole team on your own. So if you're asking how he softens up his targets , then the hell i really do not know what you are talking about.
And what the hell do i need that useless taunt when nothing survives first round ? and yes even on hard and very hard.

Can other charackters do that as well ? Yes. Not hard in this game, actually pretty easy, but no other Defender can do that. no Percival, no Gawain. Gawain has the ice attack , but his base attack does not get the bonus damage , so its nice but not overwhelming and while Deathstrike is nice , it applies to nonarmor , which makes it mostly just a fun skill, but at least it is not without any use. ice vs stigma comes at a 4 vs 1 AP comparisim ,since you were talking about expensive. And since you keep talking about loyalty: Who says i am Christian ? Which leaves Galahad out of the equation instantly. And Sir Pelleas? Well you better be Rightous. And Gawain `? Well the Fairy Knight is just as tanky but more mobile and more Crowd Control. And Gawain is a neutral hero. So no Matter the court titles , to get him to 10+ Loyalty takes a while. Especially since the events might not be for him.

So before you blast others for all of those "what if"'s, maybe you consider you have a boatload of those yourself in your arguements.

In the end Mordred has 4 unique skills with Cleave (Red Knight has that too), Thunder , Lightning and Stigma. Three of these do damage and Cleave has nearly double the damage of the Champions Cleave, so that makes more then up for less base damage.
If you don't like Mordred , fine i couldn't care less. But to try to paint him as a bad charakter when numbers and math say something else then your feelings , then sorry buddy , but go look it up again.

[Njall]

You're not even discussing how good Mordred is at this point, you're discussing how granting a character 20+ AP /round makes them look good. Yeah, sure. But give that same support to another character (for example, an actual damage dealer) and he'll do a better job than Mordred could ever do, and generally wipe out the map, or most of the encounter, in one or two turns at most.
If you actually take the time to read what I wrote, I never stated that Mordred can't do average damage, if built for it (and supported). My point is that you're much better off giving that level of support to someone else.
I played with Mordred a lot. He can be fun, and there's nothing wrong liking his playstyle.
He does bring some unique buffs to the table, but 120% damage to 4 targets 1/4 turns isn't anything to cry home about, as we're talking like 30? 40 damage tops unless he's killed something already?
The shock that comes with it? That's the useful part.
And neither is Stigma particularly good, a single target debuff that can a) be resisted by the very mobs it would be most useful against, the high HP targets and b) not very synergistic with Mordred's damage capabilities, which are mostly AoE.
Cleave is not bad, but Flurry is pretty much useless, as you can just use Sweeping Strikes + Cleave, if you're trying to spread the damage.
So yeah, I rest my case, he's not particularly good. He's probably the first unit created for the game, and it shows, as his skills lack a direction and synergy.

Grab another defender and they'll do a better use of the shield charge tactic suggested above due to a higher base damage multiplier.

Or, even better, grab Kay, give him half the stuff you're stacking on Mordred and watch him do twice as much damage as Mordred does. Also, the CC he applies on mobs is of the kind you don't recover from.

I never said Mordred is weak on all fronts. He's just not supposed to be a good damage dealer.

[brynragan]

Morded generally suffers from 3 things- A glitched trait, no loyalty bonus, and a generalist skillset. As a thought experiment of sorts, I thought a bit about how I would "revisit" him- please note, I am not using "fix", because outside of his trait, I don't think he is "broken" or bad. Just underwhelming when compared to other units. Anyway, I came up with 3 steps-

-Remove the trait. Its glitch is apparently difficult enough for devs to fix that it hasn't been done yet, despite being aware of it, and putting out hotfixes and nerfs for things elsewhere. And I think it cleaner to make it unneeded.

-Stagger "Loyalty bonuses" according to plot progression. Act 1: No bonus. Act 2: 10% damage bonus. Act 3: 20% damage bonus. Act 4: 20% and 1 AP. This fixes a general issue, and removes the need for the trait

-Morality/Religion powers. Probably the biggest reach- I'd give him 2 powers per run. One for each axis, with improvements coming as you progress further down the path. These can be unique powers, maybe even leaning into a role that is hard to find for those decisions- give him another aoe magic power as a Christian, since there's just Ector for Arcanists there. Maybe a power that lets him armor up and retaliate for the Old Faith. Rightful/Tyrant can be a buff- maybe a team buff vs a selfish one respectively. Ideally these will inform and empower Morded at a distinct role, rather than leave him as a jack-of-all trades generalist.

These won't be taken, of course. Just a little "what if".