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Nelke is the kind of the game that is probably more enjoyable the more Atelier games you have played.
Nelke as a character is kind of a self insert character. On her own cant compare to all the interesting characters from the other games.
For the time limit if you do better at the game it won't be stressful. Each objective has a fixed turn by which it needs to be completed. So if you complete it with 10 turns left, you get 10 more turns to complete any future objectives. You gain a lot of extra turns by completing the early objectives earlier.
You only really need one playthrough, but if you dont enjoy the gameplay itself its easier to fail. If you dont enjoy the city building or main character tho, maybe the game wont be that fun for you. I would give it a try at some point anyways, so if you changed your mind by then.
Just thought I'd drop this here cuz it's also amazing (vocal track). The world map theme in Lulua's post game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GePSrqzlvK4
On another note, I still dislike Ryza's music. It's just so boring to me and lacking any kind of pizzazz that hits me in the feels or makes me go "Wow".
For me, at least, girls from Arland\Dusk\Mysterious with their stick-like legs are looking like 12-14 undeveloped girls. I prefer to see mature-looking characters in games.
Here's my top:
- Atelier Ryza 1-2
- Atelier Escha & Logy
- Atelier Shallie
- Atelier Ayesha
- Atelier Lulua
- Atelier Lydie & Suelle
- Atelier Sophie
- Atelier Firis
And nothing from earlier Arland series due to brutal time-limits. I have wasted time playing 'em, unfortunately. Their bad endings still hauting me.
I believe with Atelier Ryza' Secret game the series walking into the bright future with great visual & game-design and awesome soundtrack (like in Dusk series or Lydie&Suelle or Lulua, or even Nights of Azure series).
P.S.: My Atelier Ryza copies are on Playstation account btw.
I dropped anime altogether years ago once they moved on to the sex sells design. Everything in anime now a days is about lewding something, every girl regardless of age is lewded. Every now and then some interesting anime comes out like Overlord which isn't as bad.
Prior to Ryza the games didn't feel lewd to me, the girls are not designed to be attractive in that kind of way, it's very heartwarming and I am able to really appreciate and enjoy the characters for their personality charms.
I generally avoid media that is trying to arouse me by being too lewd because it ruins it for me, that's not to say I haven't played any lewd games. I prefer them to go all out instead of inserting weird lewdness into an otherwise heartwarming or normal story. Like how can I take Ryza seriously when her ass is in my face all game and her boobs and thighs look like she just popped out her 7th child.
Ryza's excessive XXX cup boobs with thunder thighs and a jello butt that gets shoved in your face constantly, to me, is the very definition of the Atelier series becoming like every other anime and selling itself out to horny teenagers. Please give me more modest looking character designs instead.
Over time, Atelier will keep watering down the gameplay elements while increasing the jiggle physics and the franchise will officially die. That's what I've observed throughout my life once a company embraces the dark side hoping to cash out on the sex sells principle without putting any effort into the game design. The crafting system is already changing in ways I can't get behind, as complexity is important for me. I would really have preferred more complexity in crafting with the same modest looking character design but lose the obsession with time limits.
Pick one?
Mature and innocent arent quite on the same scale of measurement, but they are still mutually exclusive. A character can't be both at the same time. I assume by mature you just mean older?
The visual design in Ryza is mixed. The area design is great, easily Gust's best. In terms of 3D character models the quality of the actual models (art and character design aside) is very high now as well.
Tthe quality of the character designs (outfit design, characters themself) and the art is pretty mediocre. At best. Compared to a number of past Atelier games it is much worse.
If they could combine the visual improvements with great character design & art we could get a game with amazing visuals.
I dont see it getting better if their current artist(s) dont improve massively, or they get new ones. Ryza's official art actually has some proportion issues where the body's proportions dont match. Speaking on an artistic level and not per se realistic.
I honestly think the whole ''thighs'' thing wasnt even intended, it was just some proportions being drawn poorly.
Game design is mixed as well. The Alchemy is much too easy as it is overloaded with too many mechanics that make the games easymode or simple. Action gameplay is engaging, but the mechanics trip over each other. At higher speed/WT you will constantly be attacking and you wont be able to use skills. While attacking or using skills you also cant use items or guard.
Switching to a character usually catches them in the middle of an attack meaning you have to wait.
That bit is downgraded compared to Ryza 1's combat where switching characters went a lot smoother and being able to interupt to instant cast skills or items helped with that. Cant do that with skills in Ryza 2.
Overall the gameplay is faster but also less tactical since everything happens so fast and you dont have much control and as a result you end up using the main character (of your choice) most of the time.
What anime did you watch? There's tons of anime and how they depict characters always varies a lot. ''everything in anime'' is a very broad statement.
Overlord was good in season 1, then halfway through season 2 it became a sadist powerfantasy. Usually animes fail because they didnt adept the source material well enough, but in this case it was the opposite. Overlord didnt have any lewd because of that reason.
It actually has a setting where the lewd would make a lot of sense since the setting is less friendly to characters and it has actual succubus/demon characters. and it has actual succubus/demon characters.
Nothing wrong with a power fantasy, it's what made Hellsing so awesome. Just seeing bad ass characters be awesome, even if you know who's going to win it doesn't stop it from being great. I've been meaning to check out some other anime like Tanya the Evil.
You have a point. I think I just spend too much time in anime communities and the only thing they talk about or post is lewd garbage so it really skewed my view. It isn't fair to say "everything", but it feels that way sometimes lol.
There were interesting side characters and plots and everything just turns into. ''haha, lets brutally murder everyone in the most gruesome ways possible!'' That's the kind of thing you'd expect from some dark fetish 18+ game.
A problem with the source material (light novel) itself and not the anime it was based on. The author started to pander to ''that audience'' too much so the characters and story went to hell.
Its mainly a shame because the first season of Overlord was very good both in terms of visuals and story/characters. Its a good example of a show that could have been really great but went off the deep end.
Season 1: great
Season 2: alright but you can start seeing the issues near the end
Season 3: ''wait what dark place on the net did I end up in?''
I guess im more vocal about that particular anime since it bothered me how they went from so much potential to being so terrible.
Does remind me I need to watch more anime again tho. I've rarely watched anime in the past decade. (too busy working on my game backlog)
Is Atelier going down the same road? Kind of a mixed bag. Breast jiggles go back as far as Escha & Logy. Character design, well i think you could make a case for Ryza specifically, but not any other character. And even then it's far from what you'd find in other games. There were a few fanservicey shots in Ryza 1, but it was mostly the players really picking up on it. But I do think they leaned into that much harder with Ryza 2 - just look at her ending pose, or the much greater number of narrow crack and crawlspaces to navigate.
Mostly agreed on the alchemy. I found the visual representation to be very confusing, but once I got over that it was so easily abused relative to earlier games. I think they at least tried to mitigate that in Ryza 2 by locking things behind the skill tree, but that pretty much all went out the window by giving you the duplicator super early.
Comparing it to older games is hard for me though. It's been so long since I played Iris or Arland that I don't really remember the details. I do remember Iris being fairly simple, and I have fond memories of Arland. I can't really compare to Ayesha because I cleared the game without ever understanding how it worked. Escha is hitting a sweet spot for me. It's probably mostly the same as Ayesha, but much better explained so I more or less get what I'm doing.
Combat though, I disagree. Ryza 1 trips over itself constantly. Using items outside boss fights feels like a waste due to limited CC. Using skills feels like a waste because IIRC you wanted to save those points to raise your tactics level, plus you could use the time navigating the menu to just attack more often.
Ryza 2's combat was a total upgrade over Ryza 1, except that your allies would all target different enemies instead of following your target to take enemies down faster. While I still prefer the turn-based combat found in older games, I wouldn't mind seeing the current iteration continue.
Either way, comparing the two is almost a moot point, because in both games crafting powerful weapons and armor was so easy you could just steamroll everything without worrying about the finer details too much.
It is strange. I dont think they changed much there, but I felt the same way. Whatever they did, the alchemy UI feels somewhat uncomfortable to use at times.
Most Atelier games would limit the mechanics as well as powerful materials or synth items behind story and area progression. Aside from that they were much simpler. They still have complex alchemy but with fewer systems.
Main issues with Ryza (1&2)'s alchemy is that there's so many systems to use and many of them are powerfull.
We dont need items outside of boss fights, tho. In boss battles where it matters items werent too limited since they could be recycled. Using skills isnt a waste. Points gained scaled directly with attacking, same as in Ryza 2. So early on we started with few items (like in Ryza 2) but using them became easy later on.
Boss battles are the fun battles in Atelier games, so enjoyability or quality of the combat really depends on how good the mechanics are in boss fights.
I agree that CC should have been made easier available for normal battles.
In Ryza 2 attack animations and skill animations take up far more time, which means as you get more speed and wt you will actually soft ''cc'' your party characters, preventing item use and guarding. While completely fine if you dont plan on using them (since they are constantly attacking) it means you cant just swap to guard an attack or use an item. Most of the time they will be attacking and you cant do that.
Many times ive tried to guard but couldnt because the character I switched too just started a lengthy running animation towards an enemy. ''Okay I guess I will use skills instead then. Good thing the game isnt hard or I'd be dead.'' (I actually have died once or twice from just that on the hardest difficulty)
In Ryza 1 you could interupt characters to instantly use skills. We cant do that anymore. Between that and the lengthy animations using skills actually feels worse (in terms of gameplay mechanics) since it takes much longer.
Menu navigation didnt take much time when you used interupts. (for recycling you could cancel it after recycling the item) No more then any other item system in Atelier games, anyway.
Which is another thing this game does poorly: Ryza 1 stopped the battle in the interupt menu (skills, items) and during skills. In Ryza 2 the boss ATB bar will fill right up while you are attacking, so better hope you break it. At the same time you can actually stagger them for extreme times if you know what you are doing, which is broken in a different way.
The battle not freezing isnt automatically bad. Its the way they implemented it that makes it bad.
We get much less control over party members now. There's a big delay when switching since they are often already attacking, thus locking out items and guard.
The main culprit here is that normal attacks and skill use takes far too much time.
If Gust wants to try their hands at a system like this they should look at how the FF13 games did it, because it works much better there. Switching party members/paradigms without delay and guarding using different skills, items etc, is actually smooth there.
Yes, and no. In Ryza 1 we got the higher difficulties much later. In Ryza 2 we could enable them with CE on day 1 and the highest difficulty one above that, was added not long after.
On those 2 difficulties the gameplay does matter. And it shows its just not very good. Easy button mash fun? Yes. In that sense its enjoyable and it works. But high quality, or even just balanced gameplay? No.
I ofcourse agree with you about the base difficulty. Modern Atelier games are way too easy on the hardest ''normally'' available difficulties the games come with.
Which I guess is why they can get away with poorly balanced combat like this.
On the visual side of things attack animations still look great. That is one area where Gust hasnt failed to impress yet.
In terms of combat quality as someone that has played far too many rpgs in far too much depth, I can't agree its a well implemented system, or that its better then Ryza 1's.
Ryza 1 isnt the game that trips over itself: that's Ryza 2. Ryza 1 wasnt a great combat system either, but the ideas they had were better implemented then they are in Ryza 2.
People complained that items couldnt be used enough (didnt they recycle?) so Gust changed that. And now items are heavily limited at first, party members dont show how much CC they have in combat (poor ui) and using skills a lot is forced to keep CC up.
That's not an improved in my book. That's changing one flaw into a different one.
~~~
Anyways, that my pov on the combat.
While the action can be enjoyable from a tactics or character control perspective it doesnt flow well. Ryza 1 once you get used to interupting, knowing when you can use skills or when to raise tactics level. Swapping between characters all the time is quite engaging and works well enough. Ryza 2 doesnt give that feeling. That's where it trips over itself.
But I'll continue to disagree that Ryza 1 was better. Felt clunky, with too many "feels bad" mechanical tensions, as I described previously. Neither felt good to switch between characters, and honestly the only time I really wanted to was on the post-game boss in Ryza 2. Ryza 2 just flowed much better - Attack->Skills->Items. Easy. My biggest complaint is that it can feel pretty button spammy, with quick turn times with 3 basic attacks and up to 3 or more skills if the fights go long enough.
Recycling is another of the "feels bad" mechanics. It encourages loadouts with "the one true item" with a bunch of fodder to keep it going and/or loadouts with low-tier items that don't blow through CC quite so quickly. Otherwise you're sacrificing items that you'd actually like to be using. There's potentially some strategy in that, but it does feel like the system punishes you for making that high end bomb or whatever.
All that said, I'll have to defer to you on anything specific to higher difficulties. I don't necessarily avoid challenges (I mean, I grew up on NES games and recently played Code Vein), but I don't seek them out either. It's not why I play games, so I tend to leave the difficulty setting at default whatever that may be.
If you see Ryza as lewd sex doll, I don't know why are you so focusing on that and where you see that... Did you ever seen real girls with good figure? Big breasts and developed hips are common in my country and so it does with girl's butts. They're beautiful and normal. It's normal for girl to have these body properties. I don't understand why the west culture so focused on fearing it last years.
I can't see Ryza in the way as do you =)
She's normal in my book. A common 20-year girl you can meet on the street.
I believe the game chareacters SHOULD BE attracive - every in some way. It's the basis you getting attached to them. I don't see any point in making mediocre characters - there are too many of them and they're easy to forget.
The only thing I don't like in Arland\Dusk\Mysterious girl's designs - their legs. Too thin, no hips. Too infantile. Seriously. That's too flat for me.
They're great as well written individuals, but this only one thing made me disappointed.
Same goes for anime. If you so afraid of everything "lewd" so stop watching ecchi titles, I dunno) I'm watching a lot of anime and completely don't see "lewd" thing in most of the modern titles, not ecchi genre.
i played this before on my PS2 years ago. and i think i loved this game more then most of the newer 1s (i think )