Is it possible to have a viable Heavy Gunner build without the use of power armor? (PVE)

[nellanella]

I'm making a new character because I want to try a heavy gunner play-style, and I only got to level 35 with my rifleman so I'm still fairly inexperienced with builds and the game.

Can you have a heavy gunner build without the use of power armor that does well in the end game?

Since you would be omitting power armor perk cards, what benefits would you lose, and in turn what benefits would you gain by putting other perk cards in their place?

[DaGlow]

yes u can go heavy gunner with out pa just need to use then the right armor perk cards for ur normal armor and ur fine

[homek76]

Not really. You can't get the "Stabilized" perk which is one of the of the most important ones of all the heavy gunner perks, damage- and accuracywise. You will miss morer shots and those who hit are making less damage.
And because of the volume of fire, classical heavy weapons lack the possibility of sneak play, which normally results in the player getting hit regulary. Have fun burning through your stimpacks without PA when 15 ghouls storming towards you.
Heavy guns are designed for PA use, and you will end up in an overall weaker character without.
Yes, it will work, but only because the content is so extremely easy. The big bosses, especially the SBQ will be a pain in the ass for you (no radiation protection through PA, so you have to rely on CSS or Hazmat Suit).

[Mooman]

The only real perk you lose is stabilized which is 75% armour ignore and better accuracy.

Depending on the weapon this may have a large effect on high armour enemies like super mutants and SBQ.

Fast fire low damage per shot weapons like gatling lasers will suffer more than slow high damage weapons like gatling gun or plasma caster due to how armour reduces incoming damage.

You can also use AA guns for 50% reduction, but generally other types are stronger, again due to how armour works.

Not impossible but will be slightly slower ttk and use more ammo, but you can use other non pa cards for increased tankiness.

[Soobydoo]

https://nukesdragons.com/fallout76/perks?v=1&s=e3a28d6&d=sg2s01sr2sq2eh2ej4ek1a72a40am2au2an2pe2cu0cr0s12ic4l71lu2x83lt2ls2s32x03xq3xm3x73ib4x13&m=c24fega&am=162931-132a3b-112a3b-162931-162931&wp=w7&wm=1b2834&ad=03468

This is the build i use, you can totally used no PA. As everyone has noted the disadvantage is the 45% armor pen and accuracy.

IF you are already in near BIS spec that is not that noticeable, and im a Junkie player. if you were Bloodie it would even have less of an issue.

[Lesmir]

you hit harder in PA
you hist more often in PA
you can take more dmg in PA
you move faster in PA
you look more badass in PA
easier to have the best PA than the best legendary armor with affix you want

[Dirk Mcstride]

I see some high level players with heavy weapons. But its best with power armor, its very hard to stealth with heavy weapons. After first shots everything is alerted. Even with legendary buffs, or perks. You can't attach silencers to heavy weapons. Normal armors are weaker against enemies in pve. But in pvp its different.

Heavy build is like a tank build that deals massive damage.
And Stealth commando build is more like a sneaky build dealing massive damage.

Taking one for the team legendary perk, is a replacement for stealth damage in heavy. That perk is made for players that takes damage.

Currently stealth commando and heavy power armor build is the meta, until bethesda add new perks or balances.

[The Commendatore]

Originally posted by Lesmir:

you hit harder in PA
you hist more often in PA
you can take more dmg in PA
you move faster in PA
you look more badass in PA
easier to have the best PA than the best legendary armor with affix you want

If only there was legendary power armor.

[Jman]

Originally posted by Le Désir de Vivre:

Originally posted by Lesmir:

you hit harder in PA
you hist more often in PA
you can take more dmg in PA
you move faster in PA
you look more badass in PA
easier to have the best PA than the best legendary armor with affix you want

If only there was legendary power armor.

Ug, I don't know if I want to endure the RNG of trying to get the perfect power armor affix.

[Arcanix]

PA users get "Do you need a can opener for that armour"....alot. In Fallout 4 it was "How do you p in that thing". Survival game...do watcha need to do. Run faster in PA perks is very useful. Just quick slot a pistol and run 20% faster. Sqaud maneuvers another 20%. Then 20% speed increase at increased APs, at 50% hps....Sprinting consumes 40% fewer Action Points and Action Points regenerate 45% faster is also useful. No need to say mean things.

[Bacon Overlord®]

Originally posted by wattati:

I'm making a new character because I want to try a heavy gunner play-style, and I only got to level 35 with my rifleman so I'm still fairly inexperienced with builds and the game.

Can you have a heavy gunner build without the use of power armor that does well in the end game?

Since you would be omitting power armor perk cards, what benefits would you lose, and in turn what benefits would you gain by putting other perk cards in their place?

Short answer: Yes.

If you find the right armor, you can use heavy weapons without PA.

Would I suggest it? Not really. Heavy weapons are anything but stealthy. The only time you really want to try to do non-PA builds are if you're going to be taking advantage of the massive extra damage that stealth builds give over PA builds.

Some pros and cons (assuming a non-melee build):

PA builds:
Pros:
Damage resistance (you'll need it since stealth perks do not work in PA)
Easy to put together and easy to find cores

Cons:
Slow (can't get boosts from speed demon, etc)
Loud (can't sneak)
No legendary affixes
Expensive to repair (especially if you're using T-65 or Strangleheart)

Non-PA builds:
Pros:
Extra damage from stealth (up to 3.2x at night with silenced weapons IIRC)
Faster running and sprint
More maneuverability
Gets bonuses from just about every perk/affix/mutation that involves speed
Legendary affixes available that make armors like Heavy Combat armor only slightly less protection than most PA
Lots of defensive options that are really powerful (like Serendipity)

Cons:
Damage resistance (unless you have maxed out legendary armor)
Time sink in trying to get the right armor and affixes
Can be expensive to repair if you have certain armors
Lots of perk points need to be sunk into defensive options for some builds

[Bored Peon]

I see people not in power armor using heavy weapons all the time. Why people keep dragging this into a power armor versus no power armor discussion is irrelevant. There is loads of builds that do not use power armor.

People keep saying all these advantages and disadvantages but they seem to forget some of the alternatives out there.

No stabilized means you lose out on armor penetration, but with the increase for bloody or junkie can easily make that difference up.

No stabilized also means less accuracy, but if ya aint using VATS then accuracy does not even matter. If you are using VATS for for your heavy weapons then you are putting a limit on your DPS in the first place since VATS consumes AP.

Power armor has more damage resistance, but if your armor is all focused on a mob type, like troubleshooter, sentinel, mutant slayer, etc the you take less damage out of power armor than in power armor. A set of five pieces for -75% damage reduction out performs power armor.

Also as Arcanix pointed out you can gain quite a few perks not available to people in power armor. Which also works another way that you do not need to invest in power armor perks.

Then the most important thing, not everything in the game is a dps race. The most important thing is that you have fun while playing. Do your research, plan your build, do some crafting, do some shopping and then go have fun with it.

[Bacon Overlord®]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

Then the most important thing, not everything in the game is a dps race. The most important thing is that you have fun while playing. Do your research, plan your build, do some crafting, do some shopping and then go have fun with it.

This. Best comment.

[Hefutoxin]

Originally posted by wattati:

I'm making a new character because I want to try a heavy gunner play-style, and I only got to level 35 with my rifleman so I'm still fairly inexperienced with builds and the game.

Can you have a heavy gunner build without the use of power armor that does well in the end game?

Since you would be omitting power armor perk cards, what benefits would you lose, and in turn what benefits would you gain by putting other perk cards in their place?

It would work fine. The game isn't hard when you get used to it.

You lose stabilized and move slightly slower with a heavy weapon out. Game is easy enough that it won't make or break you.

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

No stabilized also means less accuracy, but if ya aint using VATS then accuracy does not even matter. If you are using VATS for for your heavy weapons then you are putting a limit on your DPS in the first place since VATS consumes AP.

Stabilized significantly reduces the shot spread.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Hefutoxin:

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

No stabilized also means less accuracy, but if ya aint using VATS then accuracy does not even matter. If you are using VATS for for your heavy weapons then you are putting a limit on your DPS in the first place since VATS consumes AP.

Stabilized significantly reduces the shot spread.

Last Action Hero which has the two shot ability which caused a significant penalty to accuracy and the spread of the second shot. The missing bonus for stabilized is nowhere near that. So yeah while there is somewhat of a difference, it aint really much of a deal.

[Grubbs008]

Who cares about the accuracy of stabilized, it's the ignore 45% of armor that matters. I use that with an anti armor glass minigun and it wrecks. 95% armor ignore.