Post your weapon aspect tier list!

[GiantOctopodes]

I figure we've all seen a tier list or two for weapon aspects. But I'd love to see yours! I'll start by sharing mine, but please don't just critique where I've personally placed things, please also post your own and your rationale! Note that I use Ruthless Reflex rather than Double Dash, which does impact the relative power level of certain weapon aspects.

S Tier - Makes the game *significantly* easier by using one of these aspects, regardless of build. Substantially above the power level of other weapon aspects, and so good they can work with basically any "build" or even an incoherent mess of boons.
Arthur Sword - Huge AOE special which lays down a field providing a 40% damage resist (nearly doubling your effective health), while adding 50 health to your base on top, and it has insane damage which even without boons absolutely chunks down bosses. Ridiculously powerful.
Chiron Bow - I almost feel like this could be "Need I say more?" If you haven't used Chiron, you won't understand, and should try it. If you've tried it, you already know. Huge damage, top tier safety and ease of use.
Eris Rail - The Speedrunner's Choice. It's the "cast aspect" for guns except instead of just boosting casts, it boosts damage globally, making it pump out absurd damage. Certain hammers like cluster bombs can just take it to another level, it's used in most speedruns for a reason.
Achilles Spear - The cast aspect for spears, and it has a ridiculous 250% damage boost to casts, which takes cast builds which are already powerful and make them obscene, and can take cast builds which are otherwise just ok and make them quite good. It also provides excellent mobility and thus safety.
Beowulf Shield - The cast aspect for shield. Shields in general provide some great options for safety, with their blocking mechanics, and this doubles down on it by heavily promoting using bull rushes. In fact it actually is unique in offering alternate versions of every single base cast in the game. Great fun all around, and of course hugely powerful.

A Tier - These weapons are powerful and flexible, and can hit similar power levels as S tier weapons, but require a bit more care in their build construction and / or work with a more narrow range of viable options. When paired with a good build though, they can be absolutely devastating.
Lucifer Rail - Must try at some point with a triple shot special hammer and a percentage based boon for it, clears rooms and bosses easily and safely.
Hades Spear - Must try with massive spin and rapid spin with Poseidon on the attack. The spin attack will clear whole rooms without even really needing to move.
Rama Bow
Hera Bow
Demeter Fists - Must try with the Explosive Upper or Kinetic Launcher hammers and a percentage based special boon, it'll dish out some hilarious damage.
Chaos Shield


B Tier - These weapons can be used to great effect in a variety of builds, but don't necessarily hit the same highs in power that A or S tier weapons do, and / or have some limitations associated with them which hold them back a bit and make them harder or more dangerous to use.
Nemesis Sword - Huge damage but not as huge as Arthur, and it rewards and requires a very specific attack style with heavy emphasis on the dash attack. Powerful, but limited, and not the safest playstyle.
Zeus Shield - It's not quite as easy to clear rooms as it is with Chaos or Beowulf; it can be great, especially against relatively immobile bosses, and can be very safe with deflect boons on basically anything, but won't be quite as great against highly mobile foes or bosses.
Hestia Rail - Can actually deal Insane damage vs single targets, but it'll be slow to clear groups without a lot of help, and will struggle heavily against immunity effects, relatively speaking.
Poseidon Sword - If you love Exit Wounds, and get it, you'll love this sword. Lacking builds centered around that specific boon, it'll always be strictly inferior vs the cast aspects above.
Gilgamesh Fists - Giving enemies a 50% damage boost against you while using an extremely close range weapon is risky, to say the least. It's very good, with high damage and extra dashes, but has a high skill requirement to use effectively.
Zagreus Fists - If you don't use Ruthless Reflex these don't belong in B tier. But having a baseline 65% dodge chance after a near miss is already fantastic, and with Lambent Plume or a Hermes Dodge boon you can get to 85%, and with both you can get to 100%, which is just insanely powerful with basically any build attached to it, and they're very fast. It does require those specific elements to be good though, thus B tier.

C Tier - This is the tier for most of the Zag aspects. They are all in this tier for the same reason; they can be very good and very powerful with one or two specific boons and hammers, but outside of those situations they're not at the same power level as the above weapons, making them effectively "one trick ponies". Still, their "one trick" can be quite good.
Zagreus Sword - Add in Hermes attack speed boosts and Cursed Slash and you'll feel nigh well invincible, that is until you're fighting ranged enemies hovering over lava or giant rats in Styx.
Zagreus Bow - Add in Artemis boons to capitalize on the free crit percentage, and combine with the inherent safety associated with bows.
Zagreus Spear - Fantastic with Exploding Launcher and / or Charged Skewer.
Zagreus Rail - The best option for using Spread Fire and going Shotgun style.

D Tier - These weapons are strictly inferior to other options under all circumstances. They actively make the game harder than using their superior alternatives, regardless of what build you are going for. It doesn't mean they're "bad" much less unplayable, they're just outclassed by the alternatives.
Talos Fists - It provides no upside vs Poseidon to say nothing of Achilles, being far more conditional and requiring very close range to trigger the benefit, thus reducing the potential safety normally inherent to cast builds.
Zagreus Shield - Strictly inferior to Beowulf, in all builds and all circumstances.

F Tier - ...
Guan Yu Spear - Even at max rank, it's the equivalent of adding in +5 heat to the run (+100% enemy damage, since you halve your effective hit points), without getting credit for the massive increase in difficulty. The decent-ish power of the weapon (particularly the special) and the mediocre healing it provides don't even begin to come close to making up for it. Sitting next to Arthur or Beowulf is just insulting. Even in the very
best case scenario, the special will never be anywhere close to as good as Chiron's or that of the Chaos shield or Arthur's or Lucifer's, and the spin attack will never approach the power of Hades' spear. And none of those come with the severe downside of the weapon. In my opinion this is the only improperly balanced weapon in the game, it's utter trash and without upgrades frankly unplayable. If they're married to it being supposedly "that good" and worthy of the health debuff, it should start at -50% and get +10% per level, so -0% at max rank. That still would only get it up to B tier, but that's miles better than it is now.

[Paranoia]

Personal note: I just dislike the Cast-specific Aspects, so I will not rate them. They just feel like being pigeonholed into one very specific play-style with minimal variation, and if you don't get a good Cast, goodbye. So they may be absurdly strong, but personally I find them too uninteresting to use.

So one could argue my list is one half strength, one half how personally interesting I find these.

A-tier: Chiron Bow. The damage output is high and reliable. Makes good use of both Attack and Special.
Hades Spear. Makes me actually use sweeps regularly, and seldom goes horribly wrong. Obviously sweep-related Hammers preferable, but almost anything goes really.

B-tier:
Zeus Shield: Interesting take on Shield Special. Would rate A-tier, if not for the fact that the Hammer upgrade that gives boost to Attack on Special hit does not work as advertized, and is in fact pretty useless since it only boosts attack after the special returns, not when it hits.
Rama Bow.
Hera Bow.
Zagreus Bow. Can't go wrong with Bow, really.
Zagreus Fists. Dodge is absurd.
Gilgamesh Fists. Add Plume and you basically have Zagreus Fists but with much higher damage output. The extra damage taken is irrelevant if the enemy never hits due Dodge. Would rate higher than Zagreus Fist, but there is only so much room on tier-list. So... B+.
Zagreus Sword. Attack speed is one of the most important factors in this game, both because one gets more hits in, obviously, and because one has easier time stun-locking enemies and avoiding attacks.
Lucifer Rail. Interesting Special, but the Attack feels like I have a super-soaker (not so super even) as far as damage output goes. And Satan knows how and when Athena blocks trigger with it. I just hope the Attack had a bit more noticeable damage.
Zagreus Rail. Getting Rail Attack to matter is more about boons than the attack itself.

C-tier:
Zagreus Spear. Without launcher I just do not find it very pleasant. Then again, I have issues waiting for the Spear to return.
Excalibur: It hits hard, and Special is interesting, but it is oh-so-slow. which limits its applications. Attack speed is better than attack strength, most of the time.

D-tier: everything I have not mentioned specifically above and below, for the reason I find their bonuses unremarkable in general.

F-tier: Guan Yu. Like, this one feels like someone wanted to make a self-imposed challenge, and then just forgot to delete it before it made it into the official product. It would be mediocre even without the absurd downside.
Special mention: Beowulf Shield. It is most powerful Shield, absolutely, but a hidden aspect should be somewhat unique, whereas this is just the same effect as shared with another weapon. It could have been interesting, but it is very much not.

[Puzzlemint]

S+ Tier:
Zeus Shield. Only two people have beaten the game on 64 Heat; Both of them used Zeus Shield, and both of them agree that it is impossible to beat the game on 64 Heat with any aspect other than Zeus Shield. When only one weapon aspect is capable of beating the game on its highest difficulty, then that is, by default, the best weapon aspect.

S Tier:
Beowulf Shield. I believe this is still the record-holder for unseeded speedruns. Hard to get used to, but get Mirage Shot and you're absolutely laughing.

Hera Bow. Still holding on to my 100% win-rate. Everything becomes a joke with Hera.

Hestia Rail. Absolutely busted. Want to do a boonless run? Easy. Want to do a no-mirror run? Easy. Want to do 32 Heat and make it look easier than 20 Heat? Hestia Rail with RI3, AP2, CF2, UC, and whatever other 17 Heat combo you like, because Hestia is so busted it doesn't need mirror talents or boons or items.

A Tier:
Rama Bow. I usually prefer speed over big and stompy, but Rama is really big and really stompy. Put Doom on the special, Artemis or Aphrodite on the attack, and everything goes away very very quickly.

Eris Rail. Still the record-holder for seeded speedruns. Solid even if you don't get the busted Hammer/Hermes combos.

B Tier:
Nemesis Sword, Arthur Sword

Achilles Spear. Can become A-Tier with the right hammers.

Chiron Bow. Safe and simple; very good as a beginner weapon, but sorely outclassed once you know what you're doing.

Demeter Fists

C Tier:
Zagreus Sword, Poseidon Sword

Guan Yu Spear. Hits like a truck without being clunky like Beowulf/Gilgamesh or slow like Rama/Arthur. Can become B-Tier with the right hammers.

Zagreus Shield, Chaos Shield

Zagreus Bow

Zagreus Fists, Gilgamesh Fists

Zagreus Rail, Lucifer Rail

D Tier:
Zagreus Spear, Hades Spear. Both can become C-Tier with the right hammers.

Talos Fists

[Songbird]

Higher tiers become muddled because there are multiple criteria for a good weapon, e.g. potential vs consistency, high heat vs speed clears, etc. For example, I'm pretty sure Rama plays into extremely high heat much better than Hera, but it needs Twin Shot or Triple Shot to do so as well as Artemis attack, while Hera is extremely consistent at low and mid heat and also great for speedrunning.

I think anyone who knows the game well knows that Zag spear is pretty much allergic to doing damage without Exploding Launcher, though. (Charged Skewer is okay too, I guess?)

[antraxor50]

Heavily agree with Arthur placement. It just makes the game easy. Also Guan yu is an unfortunate F.

[Great Sage Equal of Heaven]

I thought it was just the one person who beat 64 heat?

[Great Sage Equal of Heaven]

Beowulf and Demeter 4 lyfe <3

[Jakkson K]

Zeus Shield isn't the best weapon, it is just the fastest most consistent weapon that needs the least amount of set-up to beat the game in the ridiculous time limit. A lot of other weapon aspects get way higher potential and are even better in speed runs, but Zeus Shield gives the most benefits specifically taking about 64 heat.

With lasting consequences to the max, the only real weapon choices are shields and fists as you either need very fast attacks that are hard to punish or a way to block all damage.

With the time limit fists lower damage without proper set up makes them less viable than shields.

Shield of Zeus gets chosen because of its broken combo with Zeus's special boon. If not for how those two work together, Zeus wouldn't be the aspect used in incredibly high heat runs... probably.

[Songbird]

Originally posted by Jakkson K:

Zeus Shield isn't the best weapon, it is just the fastest most consistent weapon that needs the least amount of set-up to beat the game in the ridiculous time limit. A lot of other weapon aspects get way higher potential and are even better in speed runs, but Zeus Shield gives the most benefits specifically taking about 64 heat.

With lasting consequences to the max, the only real weapon choices are shields and fists as you either need very fast attacks that are hard to punish or a way to block all damage.

With the time limit fists lower damage without proper set up makes them less viable than shields.

Shield of Zeus gets chosen because of its broken combo with Zeus's special boon. If not for how those two work together, Zeus wouldn't be the aspect used in incredibly high heat runs... probably.

AFAIK fists haven't cleared higher than 58 heat so far, which puts them behind both bows (Rama 60) and rail (Eris 60, Hestia 60) and ties them with spear (Guan Yu, 58). Maybe I just didn't find the right videos, though? If you're looking at unseeded/unmodded only, Rama is the only non-shield aspect to hit 60 heat, though, and both Zag shield and Beowulf have also done 60 (though Beowulf is obviously hard capped at 60 and will never post higher because it loses triple casts).

Aspect of Rama has cleared 60 heat (level 2 Routine Inspection), and I fully believe it's capable of beating 62 heat. 64 heat (where you lose Stubborn Defiance) is questionable, though. It doesn't need much, either, pretty much just Twin Shot or Triple Shot and Artemis attack + reasonably good dash/call at some point, about the same level of RNG as Zeus shield needs. Rama gets around a lot of the heat modifiers really well, like Shared Suffering going through Damage Control, and just having oodles of base damage and really really good multi-target clearing.

[GiantOctopodes]

But what does clearing over 32 heat matter? The game offers absolutely zero incentive to clear higher than 32 heat. Every aspect can clear 32 heat, and you only need to clear it once, otherwise the game rewards clearing 20 heat and below, and thus imho that's where it matters how weapons perform.

In my eyes, performing well for a newer player with 100 hours of experience or less at 15 heat or under is far, far more valuable than performing well for a speedrunner with 2000+ hours of experience going for essentially hitless runs at 60+ heat. The former is both far more likely to apply to someone and has rewards offered by the game associated with it, while the latter is not something most people will ever try, nor something the game rewards you doing even if you go for it.

[Jakkson K]

In my personal preference:
S tier:
- Rama Bow (only one with 100% winrate i think... however i also only used it twice)

A tier:
- Chiron and Hera bows
- Zeus and Beowulf shields
- Demeter fists
- Eris rail

B tier:
- Arthur sword
- Gilgamesh fists
- Hestia Rail
- Chaos Shield
- Guan-yu and Achilles Spear

C tier:
- Zagreus and Posiedon Sword
- Lucifer Rail (i find this feels bad. I think it is the worst designed hidden aspect.)
- Hades Spear
- Zagreus Fists

D tier:
- Nemesis Sword
- Zagreus Spear
- Zagreus Shield
- Zagreus Bow
- Zagreus Rail
- Talos Fists