Whats the point of Cast?

[enricofermi2]

The cast ability seems really bad compared to your standard attacks.

I think all of the weapons except the starting weapon have a ranged mode, and none of them have a charge mechanic where you can only use it once.

Is there something I'm missing, because it seems like your better off just ignoring it.

[Suzaku]

Some casts really only shine if you invest in them, but they're all still another source of damage, so they all have their uses. There's also the bonuses from the mirror to deal more damage to enemies with your blood in them.

Also, I felt casts were kind of weak until I chose the mirror upgrade that reduces me to only 1 cast, but puts it on a 3-second cooldown. I started using it far more often since it would just keep coming back without having to chase down the blood.

[DaBa]

You probably never tried making it work so feel like it's useless. Try not picking up any blessings for your weapon and see how that will feel.

Invest into cast upgrades in the mirror, pick up some blessings, you know start actually using it like it is supposed to be used. You'll quickly understand what the point of casts is. It's whatever you make it: a useless part of a run because you neglected it, a great passive damage increase thanks to the mirror upgrades, or a focus of the run that destroys every boss and room you come across.

[enricofermi2]

I have seem the upgrades. But the upgrades are still a tradeoff. Since it means not upgrading something else, and the upgrades to attack and special are also quite powerfull.

I'd usually rather have something that I can always use, versus having to chase down the cast.

At the very least, the baseline un-upgraded case barely seems worth using. Unlike the default attack and special.

[Suzaku]

Originally posted by enricofermi2:

I'd usually rather have something that I can always use, versus having to chase down the cast.

Originally posted by Suzaku:

Also, I felt casts were kind of weak until I chose the mirror upgrade that reduces me to only 1 cast, but puts it on a 3-second cooldown. I started using it far more often since it would just keep coming back without having to chase down the blood.

[enricofermi2]

Ah, so it's just weak for new players then. I guese I'll just upgrade it then.

[DarrkPhoenix]

Cast can take on several different roles in a build, depending on how you choose to use it. You can go all-in, with a cast as your primary source of damage, usually building around one of the weapons specialized for cast synergies (Hera bow, Poseidon sword, Beowulf shield). You can use it as a source of supplemental damage (Demeter cast is good here), use it to add range or aoe to a build lacking in those (e.g. Dionysus cast on a twin fists run), use the cast for its utility aspect (e.g. deflect from Athena's cast), or at the very minimum just use it to get the cast stuck in an enemy for the bonus damage from the mirror upgrade.

[アゼム]

Once you get the upgrade that gives a damage boost against enemies with the cast shards, it's invaluable. Some of the boons are really good too (phalanx shot, the beam one in particular)

[chris.ferrantegerard]

Originally posted by enricofermi2:

The cast ability seems really bad compared to your standard attacks.
Is there something I'm missing, because it seems like your better off just ignoring it.

Casts really get a lot of benefit from several mirror talents. Boiling Blood grants Attack & Special damage to foes with Cast Ammo in them while Abyssal Blood reduces foes' speed and damage. Useful bonus for every build and you don't even need to get a cast boon to make use of these buffs.

For actual cast builds you really need either Infernal or Stygian Soul talents unlocked. Infernal Soul boosts total cast ammo by two giving you three to use while Stygian Soul regenerates your cast ammo instead of dropping bloodstones. You also want to get at least a couple of Poms for your chosen cast boon; Poms have limited long term gains but the first couple of levels given sizable buffs to your cast damage so you'll want to get to lvl ~3-4 if possible.

Stygian Soul + extra bloodstones (via Chaos boon, Well of Charon buff or Artemis legendary) is amazing for pure cast builds and is my preferred pick of the two. You don't need to worry about retrieving bloodstones and in long boss fights you can keep your distance and fire your casts fairly frequently. Some weapon aspects also get nice benefits for casts. Demeter + Glacial Chill + multi crystals can deal with tough fights quite nicely and melts Hades.

[RCMidas]

The Hermes boon for instant bloodstone retrieval is also nice regardless. Demeter's Cast boons need a lot of buildup and a rethink of their normal use, but once mastered can and will absolutely decimate bosses in particular.

[アゼム]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

The Hermes boon for instant bloodstone retrieval is also nice regardless. Demeter's Cast boons need a lot of buildup and a rethink of their normal use, but once mastered can and will absolutely decimate bosses in particular.

Yeah I killed the final boss solely with Demeter's cast boons. You can just keep running away and let that do the work. It's not the fastest method, but it works.

[Frost_Ermine]

I felt this way at first too, but I realized casts can be really strong. Once you get used to regularly using them alongside your attack and specials you can clear rooms a lot more quickly.

For example, if you have the Artemis cast there are rooms where you can go in, shoot three casts at an enemy, dash strike in to finish it off, grab the crystals and repeat. If there's a group of enemies why wouldn't you throw a Blade RIft or Trippy Shot at them first to soften them up?

If nothing else you want to shoot your cast into bosses so you can use the mirror talent that makes them take more damage.

They're good for attacking enemies at a distance when you don't have other options to do that.

Casts can be used to apply more status effects to enemies, even when they don't do a ton of damage on their own.

Without spoiling too much, there are some super-powerful duo boons that you get from having God A's cast + God B's attack/special/dash/call

[Ben]

I thought the same thing about cast, but it has some very powerful uses once you learn some of its tricks. Most notably, once you purchase some mirror upgrades, your cast imposes a severe debuff on the enemy it hits. Depending on the debuff you equip, it will either slow them down and reduce their damage, or it will increase the damage you do. This is a big deal against bosses.

Also, once upgraded with certain boons, it does a significant chunk of damage in its own right.

Also, make note: your cast STICKS in the enemy it hits, debuffing them. You can recollect it after the enemy dies or after a few seconds. If the cast misses, it drops on the ground.

[The Sojourner]

Heh, I remember feeling the exact same way about the cast mechanic in Hades for quite a few runs, actually. Even now, after 300 runs, I'm still not 100% fond of casting, and could well do another several escapes without casting even once.

What my gripe was, was basically this:

Originally posted by enricofermi2:

the baseline un-upgraded case barely seems worth using. Unlike the default attack and special.

I mean, yes, the cast gives melee builds (such as the default blade) a ranged attack, but the base damage and number of casts seemed like garbage. You always had to use Nyx's Mirror and/or boons to strengthen your cast and make it shine.

However, what did it for me was the aspects of Beowulf and Hera, where you can load casts into your next attack. Only then did I slowly begin to appreciate those little, humble bloodstones.

[Simoko]

Athena and zeus cast are good.

[enricofermi2]

Originally posted by The Sojourner:

I mean, yes, the cast gives melee builds (such as the default blade) a ranged attack, but the base damage and number of casts seemed like garbage. You always had to use Nyx's Mirror and/or boons to strengthen your cast and make it shine.
.

I think my issue with the baseline cast is it is weaker than the normal attacks. A single charged shot from the bow deal 70, and I think can pierce. The starting cast, is single use 50 damage 1 charge and you have to collect. It felt like i had to be missing something, since it made no sense.

It's not really gamebreaking, but it does seem to set a bad first impression for the skill.

Now that I've played more I see the use though.