Do the umbral flames suck, or am I just bad with them?

[tyleulen007]

Hard to tell with weapons sometimes if it's bad or I'm just not using it right. For people more experienced than me: Do the umbral flames hold up to the other weapons, or are they really as weak as they feel?

[Neo NiGHTS ®]

As with any other weapon, it can take a time getting used to it.

What I can say is that it's a weapon more dependent of Magick, so it's good to prioritize that.

A very cheap way of playing with it is with Moros aspect (the one that the spirits linger around then you can explode with your special); cast your Omega Special to have both orbs around you, then start spamming (omega) attack.

Some attacks will instantly hit the special, causing an explosion. And those which aren't destroyed at once, you can just walk towards them to explode.

Again, very Magick heavy, but also very cheap way of playing.

[iovita-rein]

as said above it is fairly magic heavy, and pretty slow compared to other weapons. my suggestion is aim for apollo boons for the gradual increase of your attack sizes and icarus hammers for more flames. also, looking at the different weapon aspects could also help.

[Neo NiGHTS ®]

Aphrodite Boons work very well also, since you'll be constantly moving to explode the spirits (thinking about Moros aspect) which means you'll get most close shots, triggering Aphrodite's bonuses.

I think only Zeus and Hephaestus don't work very well there.

[Desenkei]

They mostly suck. If you get enough speed upgrades and spam the special + Aphrodite "Heartthrobs" and pretend you're there to bonk into guys ftw, it's decent / playable

[tyleulen007]

After a following your advice (and also getting very lucky) I have now seen just how effective they can be. Still not sure if I prefer them over other, less build reliant, weapons, but I definitely like them more than the skull.

[Artemis ❤]

Torches are extremely strong for on hit effects, such as Poseidon, since they rapidly put out a large number of hits and can pierce to hit multiple targets. I've found them to be the best vehicle for Freezer Burn builds by a mile, and they were my ticket to 32 heat on both underworld and surface

As has been said numerous times they do suck up a lot of magick for the omega attack (although this isn't always a bad thing, they are the best user of Spirit Surge, Heartthrob, Bloodline, and also great for hex enabling), but another consideration I wanna throw out is that they are almost never going to be a "one button" build kind of weapon. More so than any other weapon Torches rely on use of attack and special together to keep up their dps (most weapons use one or the other at once, but with the omega special orbitals the Torches use attack and special simultaneously), and the greatest strength of the attack is how you can dash through it, and due to the piercing AoE nature of the Tourch kit using the root from the cast is also a good idea... basically to use Tourches well you're going to be pressing every button on the controller. This is in contrast to most other weapons where you usually have an "attack build" or "special build" where you ignore half the moveset to minmax one specific offensive tactic. This means fishing for boons for all core move slots, which changes how you plan your build a lot

Torches can be very strong though, they're probably my personal favorite weapon right now

[dippro.mahmud]

I used to think they are the worst weapon (specially because the specials don't stun enemies). But once you learn how to play with it, it's pretty fantastic. I would say all its aspects are worth using because they all offer something usable and work with different builds.

[dippro.mahmud]

Originally posted by Neo NiGHTS ®:

Aphrodite Boons work very well also, since you'll be constantly moving to explode the spirits (thinking about Moros aspect) which means you'll get most close shots, triggering Aphrodite's bonuses.

I think only Zeus and Hephaestus don't work very well there.

Zeus is actually pretty good with the specials. And if you get Romantic Spark, then your build is pretty much done, specially on the Melinoe aspect.

[Neo NiGHTS ®]

Originally posted by dippro.mahmud:

Originally posted by Neo NiGHTS ®:

Aphrodite Boons work very well also, since you'll be constantly moving to explode the spirits (thinking about Moros aspect) which means you'll get most close shots, triggering Aphrodite's bonuses.

I think only Zeus and Hephaestus don't work very well there.

Zeus is actually pretty good with the specials. And if you get Romantic Spark, then your build is pretty much done, specially on the Melinoe aspect.

Actually I like Zeus support boons. The ones that you prime 50 Magick to cast a chain lightning each attack, one that casts a bolt each 25 Magick spent and everything else that enhances those (like 15% chance for an extra bolt etc.)

When I say that I don't like Zeus I'm thinking more about the Attack and Special. I really think they aren't good damage sources because they take too long to trigger and the damage isn't great.

[Songbird]

The meta strongest build for torches is Hera attack, Zeus special, although they can do Freezer Burn as well. Non-Freezer Burn Scorch or Poseidon Waves are okay-ish for the non-Moros aspects, but can find their late-game damage starts to suffer a lot (especially Scorch).

Moros is one of the strongest weapons in the game and does disgustingly good damage. Mel torches used to be complete butt due to lack of base damage, but are kind of OK now that Sorceress actually works on their attack; they are usually played as the long-range aspect, focusing on the attack (as they are the only torch aspect that has a normal omega attack--Moros' ghosts block each other and kill your range if you try to play long range). Eos is kind of an oddball and really wants particular hammers like Triple Comet to scale well, but it can play super safely by letting the Daybreaker handle dangerous situations.

Torches are kind of finnicky on controller, though; the ability to play them like a twin stick shooter (decoupling movement and attack direction) is very nice on KB+M. On controller, they can still lock onto a target and move backwards to space appropriately, but getting them to acquire the next target you want to hit can be awkward, and sometimes Mel will just fail to target an enemy that's about to swing at her as you move towards it, which is probably the most frustrating thing about the weapon.

Mel 32 fear surface:
https://youtu.be/3Hx2jcM2rKA
Moros 50 fear underworld:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a68uJqK0iGY
Eos 50 fear underworld:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzMWpEaq7g8

[Fringehunter7719]

Torches are probably my favourite weapon. I tend to go for the Melinoe aspect.

One tip to remember with the torches is that you can both dash and cast while channelling your omega attack without breaking the channel, though using special breaks it.

While channelling you're constantly triggering small uses of magick, which works really well with Zeus's Spirit Surge. The constant small hits will also trigger Static Shock over and over again.

Poseidon's Fluid Gain magick restoration boon is an absolute winner with the torches, rapid hits will see the magick pickups popping out left, right and centre. This means you can keep up the omega stream pretty much constantly. Unlike several of the regen boons that require a pause in use. Wave strike attacks are great with the repeated hits too, and Tidal Ring on cast is a deceptive winner when offered at a good rarity - though as with many weapons it's hard to forgo the option of Demeter's Arctic Ring cast.

Demeter is, as with all weapons, something of a winner. Either paired with Hestia for the Freezer Burn duo, or Zeus for Hail Storm.

[Fatalfungus]

Moros Hera Build is very strong, better if you get a series of -%Magic for Ω Attacks, get the Blood Line and this is an Uber strong build.

[Kenny Rogers]

Eos is clearly the strongest. Hera attack, anything special (except Aphrodite). Hestia MP restore. you can just run from everything, spamming special while your Daybreaker demolishes everything in the room.