Is it me or does the Surface kinda suck to play through atm?

[Craossa Senpai]

Not as in how much content there is in the Surface, but rather how frustrating it feels to get through the surface currently:

    
• Elite Shamblers are too easy to mistake for normal ones when you break their armor, and can surprise you with a longer lunge normal Shamblers wouldn't have. Getting hit for 20+ running maxed Vow of Blood simply cus you didn't remember one of the Shamblers you broke the armor of was an Elite feels awful in a game where alot at once is happening in combat. This is also contrary to how every other Elite Enemy works in the game (to my knowledge), as enemies will lose their Elite Attack Variants/Patterns once you break their armor, yet Shamblers will keep their extended lunge even after their armor breaks.
      
• Multiple Elite Cutthroats or Harpies in a location is Zoning Hell; You almost can't play the game w/o taking them out 1st, and depending on the weapon build & terrain it can be abysmal. With Cutthroats they at least approach you so hunting them isn't too hard, but Harpies often stay at a range, making it a Herculean Task to hunt them down while contending against their large attacks & the adds around them.
  
  
• Unarmored Anchors sometimes just ignores your attacks to continue doing theirs, even before they finished doing their ground slam. I don't know if it's just me being stupid, not knowing a certain trick to them, or both, but it makes them extremely frustrating to fight, as I can never rely on fair fights in an encounter whenever they are around due to basically flipping a coin whenever or not my attacks will stunlock them or not.
  
      
• Surface Bosses feel super unintuitive and unfun to fight:
  
  
  1. Polyphemus' Jump can't be dodged through despite him being in the air well-over your head, causing a lot of frustration figuring out where it's safe to dodge towards his direction. Sheep Variants like the Green Sheep being a borderline miniboss to contend against until you feed them to Polyphemus makes the fight sometimes feel RNGy in whenever or not you get Sheep Spawns you can better play around w/ your weapon build.
     
     
  2. Charybdis being an Unavoidable Boss Encounter (when he appears) when you would often have choice to decide if you'd rather circumvent Mini-Boss Encounters in other areas. Especially in the Rift of Thassaly, you're always better off getting a normal ship encounter w/ the average 2 - 3 Encounters that can give multiple boons, poms, etc, versus One Harder Encounter w/ only 1 Boon Reward that you might not even care for. It can basically end decent runs simply by being there.
     
     
  3. Eris being either Extremely Difficult to fight fairly, or even more Extraordinary Easy if using Soot Sprint, is such a polarizing amount of difficulty that feels bad either way you go. You're basically hard-lined in getting a Soot Sprint in a Surface Run just to ensure a win, or risk a fair head-on fight and pray to The Fates you got a Good Range Build, or that she doesn't spam Shotgun Barrages every other attack standing over Oil Fires or in front of the boarders of the boss arena, all while thinking you should have just grabbed a Hestia Boon in Ehyria to get it over with.

Granted It could all just be me being trash, though I have been able to get to Chronos w/ 20 Fear Runs semi-consistently now. IMO, I have never had any problems like these when facing any of the Underworld Enemies & Bosses, Chronos Included. What does everyone else think?

[Coisinha fofa]

I believe there are still some balancing problems, but it is an area that is unfinished.
Now as for the bosses, Éris will probably be nerfed, the damage is surreal and the reaction speed for her attacks is very small (although if you stay on top of her, it's easier to predict the attacks, she doesn't have attacks that knock you off her).
Now Polyphemus is the worst boss by far. In addition to having windows where the only way to deal damage is to stay away, the respawning of enemies is simply too much. I think maybe some of his fighting mechanics should be revised (not just nerfs). But much of the surface still seems intentionally unbalanced to me, I believe that when we have the other biomes many things will be adjusted and revised, especially because the run cannot be so difficult at the beginning.

[Wormerine]

I wouldn't say it sucks, but it does seem to be in rougher state than the underground. I quite like the decisn of the city (I think it is a much improved variation on Hades1 final biom), but I am less enthusiastic about the ships. There are also some minor mechanics that I find really annoying (like oil spills never stop burning.).

[Rod, of eight toes]

I don't mean to be rude, but this reads like skill issue. Maybe try different weapons/builds for the surface. I typically prioritize different boons for the surface than for the underworld. On the surface I want fire sprint, cast growth, cast damage, and armor damage over almost anything else.

[Craossa Senpai]

Originally posted by Rod, of eight toes:

I don't mean to be rude, but this reads like skill issue. Maybe try different weapons/builds for the surface. I typically prioritize different boons for the surface than for the underworld. On the surface I want fire sprint, cast growth, cast damage, and armor damage over almost anything else.

I have done various builds/Weapons already; I wouldn't have 20 Fear Runs under my belt if I didn't have to tango w/ the surface with the various weapons in the game. The fact you stated that you want the Soot Sprint Boon on the Surface basically confirms my issue that I outlined in the Eris segment; You're Hard-Lined in using it, or risk Positioning RNG when Eris uses Shotgun Barrages. Casts are also one of the safest ways in dealing with Polyphemus & Eris since you are both in an advantage at dodging attacks while retaining Crowd Clearing capabilities unlike most Attack/Special Builds that aren't Top-Tier. But you don't always have the luxury of them, sometimes you have to roll with what you're given, as how Roguelites are intended.

[Soulcatcher]

Yes, it's you.

[Rod, of eight toes]

I have beaten Eris multiple times without the fire sprint. I've beaten Poly both melee and ranged, with and without the cast boons I target. 🤷‍♂️

It's a roguelite. I adjust my approach based on my boons, which I suspect is how the devs intended it.

[Sketch]

I agree but tbf that is my general take of the game currently. I've noticed that I just don't feel any satisfaction of defeating any of the later area's bosses as I used to with hades 1. Mostly because the battle itself continiously feel like a slug/chore. Also, dunno if it's just me but, i've noticed that if you get to certain stages of the same boss repeatedly the difficulty increases, regardless of wether or not you have killed them prior. Dunno if that's normal or maybe a bug of somekind...regardless it kind of gives the impression you're being punished for improving.

[Craossa Senpai]

Originally posted by Rod, of eight toes:

I have beaten Eris multiple times without the fire sprint. I've beaten Poly both melee and ranged, with and without the cast boons I target. 🤷‍♂️

It's a roguelite. I adjust my approach based on my boons, which I suspect is how the devs intended it.

And so have I. And that's why I'm saying I believe there are alot more rough edges concerning them versus the other bosses in the game, because there is a stark contrast in difficulty in facing them with specific builds versus the rest of the bosses/enemies in the game atm.

I'm also referring to the Surface with a 20+ Fear Mindset, which makes it far more unforgiving versus a Standard Run; You can beat both Underworld & Surface fairly seamlessly w/ a haphazard build w/o significant Fear Modifiers, but it gets significantly more dicey once you start getting in the 20's; Compared to the Underworld you have far less room to experiment in the Surface.

[Groversoup]

Eris's big problem right now is that you need to get behind her to dodge most of her attacks and she has a bad habit of constantly backing up against a wall, assuming she's not hovering above a lake of fire preventing you from approaching in the first place.

[Thaecrasis]

Weird, when I used soot sprint, it didn't actually work against any of Eris's bullets. I've killed her a few times though using the Artemis Aspect knives

[A Street Sweeper]

Originally posted by Craossa Senpai:

Originally posted by Rod, of eight toes:

I have beaten Eris multiple times without the fire sprint. I've beaten Poly both melee and ranged, with and without the cast boons I target. 🤷‍♂️

It's a roguelite. I adjust my approach based on my boons, which I suspect is how the devs intended it.

And so have I. And that's why I'm saying I believe there are alot more rough edges concerning them versus the other bosses in the game, because there is a stark contrast in difficulty in facing them with specific builds versus the rest of the bosses/enemies in the game atm.

I'm also referring to the Surface with a 20+ Fear Mindset, which makes it far more unforgiving versus a Standard Run; You can beat both Underworld & Surface fairly seamlessly w/ a haphazard build w/o significant Fear Modifiers, but it gets significantly more dicey once you start getting in the 20's; Compared to the Underworld you have far less room to experiment in the Surface.

Yeah old mate seems to have completely missed your point I think. Eris is a broken boss for me. I don't think it's great design to make her punishing against certain types of play and then literally unable to do damage against other builds.

Cyclops is a bit the same in terms of how punishing he is against a melee build and borderline defenceless against ranged damage builds.

I think that's why I don't like surface runs in general. Underworld runs I don't try very hard to guide my build in any direction and really play around with different weapons and boons, and I haven't lost a run in a long time (currently at fear 16). Surface runs I feel this sense like "ugh, better take Zeus trinket to make sure I get the good cast buffs or cyclops is a chore, ugh do I want to cheese Eris and take Hestia trinket?". I still win if I don't (most of the time), but it feels like picking Dan in SF.

[Deimos]

I hate chain stuns from Eris and when she just barely lands at final stage or lands at fire.

[Rod, of eight toes]

Eris' final stage can be very ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. She can end up being invulnerable too often while the screen gets filled with aoe and projectiles from summons.

Cyclops is easily handled on melee. Just gotta learn to dodge on top of dmg and stay behind. Walk away during the zombie stomps that create a small ring.

[Eli Huxtable]

I mean... If I'm playing axe, Eris has no shot. Run and hide behind the turnbuckle things when you think she might start shooting, if she doesn't... charge and whirlwind? 60+ nights, a ton of wins under my belt, and I've never used soot sprint. Did I use divine dash, 'cause why not? Sure. Soot Sprint doesn't feel like it has that kind of oomph/instant win behind it that DD did. Even if I grab Soot Sprint, which isn't often because I don't like Scorch as a curse, I don't even think to sprint for projectile delete.

Maybe melee/axe just deletes her, I really should start playing with the other weapons more. I've finished a bunch of runs with staff and daggers. I greatly dislike the flames, so should figure out what their deal is, and the skull is.. ok, from my experience. But hell, I have 150+ hours in Hades 1 but I mostly used sword and fists, and I'm okay with that. If she has a type matchup why beat your head against the wall trying to use a pikachu at Brock's gym?

[Morton Koopa Jr.]

Same. People talking about soot sprint being necessary or OP are missing out how the axe just mindlessly deletes her too.