Hades 2 and Ageism

[Vinx]

I kinda hate myself for saying it, but sometimes you just gotta say it.

I've been taking this game slowly, obviously, so maybe some latter-game stuff contradicts what I'm about to point out, but so far there has been a distinct and very strange ageist leaning to the interactions between characters. The older a character looks, the more likely they are to be portrayed as grumpy, arrogant, or foolish, or all of the above. This is true of male and female, black and white, and feels very out-of-place in a game that has gone so far in trying to be all-the-PC-words.

Part of this might be due to the fact that a lot of the characters are simply not as pleasant, friendly, or fun as the characters from the first game, but there are still friendly exceptions among the younger-looking characters. And this isn't an actual age thing; the oldest being in the game has only grown younger(?)-looking with time, and yet is deeply respected and spoken well of by the other characters. This trend appears to be connected to the appearance. If you look old, you're probably grumpy, dumb, and shouldn't be taken seriously.

Legitimately, the game actually deeply damaged my first impressions of the main villain and the quality of character of so-called Good Guys because of this. Judge people based on their actions, not their ages, and avoid cliche negative stereotypes. And yet, unfortunately, for a game so concerned with being fair and representative to all sorts of people, they seem to have forgotten our older friends.

Ooooor, maybe I just haven't gotten far enough in the game to meet the loving, kindly old woman character, or the wise old man mentor. Let's hope for that.
~A Hopeful Early-Access Backer.

[Hagrid]

Vinx původně napsal:

A few brief good-faith responses:
~ I did not include any specifics except the big one because I wanted to avoid spoilers. However, for the sake of clarity: Hestia, Demeter, Zeus, Chronos, Poseidion, and Chronos-again are the early-game examples of what I'm referring to.
~ This is not a troll - if I had wanted to troll, I wouldn't have used so many soft words like "leaning" "appears to be", etc. This is a statement of perception of the game, not an accusation.
~ I know there are unpleasant young folk, too. However, there are also a few friendly visually-young folk whereas I had yet to encounter a friendly visually-old character. A lot of characters in this game are just mean.

Please keep in mind that a lot of us in these discussions want Hades 2 to be great. Just because we disagree on what that means doesn't mean we have to be enemies. I love the game and am simply pointing out what I was finding troubling during my playthrough.

I agree to some extent on Zeus, Demeter, and Chronos, but Hestia and Poseidon are both pretty chill from what I remember. Hestia maybe a little aggressive in her phrasing, but you know... fire.

[三Akiyama]

Morton Koopa Jr. původně napsal:

I was gonna write a counter argument but this has got to be a troll essay.

So patiently untrue. And I've realized OP ofc conveniently avoids listing anything concrete.

Because it's not a reasonable stance to take.

Just because it has a lot of words and you can't understand half of them doesn't mean it's a troll essay.

[2019 Nissan Sentra]

issue of perception. counter argument that scylla, eris, nemesis are three examples of grumpy "young" characters. hestia is a free spirit, and hepaestus has literally never stopped working

[Fringehunter7719]

There are only two actually old looking characters - Demeter and Hestia, I don't see any more to the issue than that.

Very few characters are flat out "friendly", so it's no massive surprise that both of the old looking characters are not in that category.

If you cast the net any wider you immediately hit Odysseus as one of the older looking characters who is one of the few friendly ones. I'm not sure who really counts for this, I'd tentatively list Schelemeus, Odysseus, Circe, Dora, Icarus and Arachne - of whom three don't have a human appearance and two of the other three are decidedly above the average depicted age.

The only young character who fits the pattern is Icarus.

There's a much stronger pattern that the mortals and ex-mortals are more friendly than the immortals. There's no Theseus this time around (yet). I kinda miss him now I think about it...

ETA: Thinking a little more I guess you might include Hermes or Artemis as friendly which probably balances things up slightly.

[Travis Touchdown]

I've always thought Poseidon was super friendly. People think he's just a bit thick because he's a big, loud hunk.

[SHIZAAAAA]

Lynfinity původně napsal:

SHIZAAAAA původně napsal:

While you're right about the gods being like that in both greek mythology and the first game, it does seem here to apply specifically to older looking ones. Tbh i doubt the writers did that on purpose but there is definitely a pattern and it's fair to recognise and talk about it

Does Aphrodite not have these qualities? Or Apollo? Or Nemesis? Or Eris? Or Scylla? Hell, I'd say even Hercules seems somewhat arrogant, at least judging from his first interaction with Melinoe.

I'm not sure if I see this "pattern" you're talking about.

I havent met hercules yet and i agree with scylla but she is an enemy. Nemesis and eris are written to be arrogant and such but not stupid, at least not in the same way poseidon, zeus or chronos do. I dont know what youre reffering o when it comes to apollo and aphrodite at all, maybe its some interactions i havent seen yet but to me those two seem to have no flaws whatsoever

[SHIZAAAAA]

Travis Touchdown původně napsal:

I've always thought Poseidon was super friendly. People think he's just a bit thick because he's a big, loud hunk.

To me he is like a weird uncle in a usually but not always endearing way, though i prefer him in the first game by a mile

[SHIZAAAAA]

Fringehunter7719 původně napsal:

There are only two actually old looking characters - Demeter and Hestia, I don't see any more to the issue than that.

Very few characters are flat out "friendly", so it's no massive surprise that both of the old looking characters are not in that category.

If you cast the net any wider you immediately hit Odysseus as one of the older looking characters who is one of the few friendly ones. I'm not sure who really counts for this, I'd tentatively list Schelemeus, Odysseus, Circe, Dora, Icarus and Arachne - of whom three don't have a human appearance and two of the other three are decidedly above the average depicted age.

The only young character who fits the pattern is Icarus.

There's a much stronger pattern that the mortals and ex-mortals are more friendly than the immortals. There's no Theseus this time around (yet). I kinda miss him now I think about it...

ETA: Thinking a little more I guess you might include Hermes or Artemis as friendly which probably balances things up slightly.

Zeus, chronos and poseidon (tho that one i can see being debatable) also look old

[SHIZAAAAA]

EvanderMars původně napsal:

I will say - as respectfully as I can - I believe the only way for you (or anyone else) to be upset with the portrayal of these older characters... Is if you already believed there to be an agenda/wide-spread prejudice against older people. There is not.

No one said there is any agenda. It's simply an observation, and is very much possible that it didnt happen deliberately. Doesn't mean people are wrong for pointing out

[Fringehunter7719]

SHIZAAAAA původně napsal:

Zeus, chronos and poseidon (tho that one i can see being debatable) also look old

I'm interested you think so. To me they clearly aren't drawn or voice acted to look young, but none are wrinkled, incapacitated or have signs of old age (rather than middle age). Both Zeus and Poseidon are incredibly muscular and vigorous and the voice lines are not read in ways that depict any markers of age - no voice cracking, wavering or hoarseness.

There's nothing like Demeter's wrinkles, eye bags or neck sagging on any of their artwork, which is where I'm drawing the line for clear age markers.

I'm not sure how much it changes anyway - Both Zeus and Poseidon are generally avuncular and complimentary to the player character, although like all boon giving gods, young or old, they will turn on the player and literally attack them in a temper tantrum, which delineates a separation from the characters I would say are universally friendly.

[Ame-kun]

I haven't seen any two-boons-being-offered-and-the-god-attacks-you-for-not-picking-them in this game, actually. I don't know if this is on supergiant's to-do list or not, though.

[Lynfinity]

Buri původně napsal:

I haven't seen any two-boons-being-offered-and-the-god-attacks-you-for-not-picking-them in this game, actually. I don't know if this is on supergiant's to-do list or not, though.

It's already in the game.

[ButtahNips]

Huh? The attitude towards Chronos has nothing to do with his age and everything to do with his actions.

[Honorable Sir Ricard De Milos]

80% of NPCs are arrogant, toxic, grumpy, etc honestly...

[Lahoo Eckbert]

What pet ? Do you get a pet?