I think the original is better

[Gdudism]

Apart from seemingly lacking synergies, Zagreus is a much more likeable character.

[Koala 4peace]

I do also think that the first game is better. But in my opinion, Hades 1 is one of the best games ever, so hard for Supergiant to keep up the quality. Obviously, others mileage vary.

[Breathe]

I rarely see this take - but I actually like Hades II more already, in fact I liked it more from a few patches ago, and the very first time I played I had a special feeling about this game. Love me some Hades I but this game has even better music, a richer, deeper world, is less punishing and has more mechanics/gameplay to explore.

[Gdudism]

Originally posted by Koala 4peace:

I do also think that the first game is better. But in my opinion, Hades 1 is one of the best games ever, so hard for Supergiant to keep up the quality. Obviously, others mileage vary.

Guess you are right, the bar was set pretty high.

[Gdudism]

Originally posted by Breathe:

I rarely see this take - but I actually like Hades II more already, in fact I liked it more from a few patches ago, and the very first time I played I had a special feeling about this game. Love me some Hades I but this game has even better music, a richer, deeper world, is less punishing and has more mechanics/gameplay to explore.

Thanks for replying! Maybe i need to give the game a bit more time.

[Neo NiGHTS ®]

I've played the hell out of Hades and it is one of my favorite games of all time.

But it's been so long since I've last played it (and have no will to do so) that I really have a hard time properly comparing both.

The bar had been set pretty high, indeed. Personally I wouldn't have released an Hades 2, or at least would have made another game in-between as a "palate cleanser", test new stuff, new mechanics etc.
But SGG took this risky road and... Well, Hades 2 is a pretty darn good game.

Now I just need to see how the story develops, some more tweaks here and there, QoL improvements and we will have another great game.

Since both games have some fundamental differences (Fast Paced x Strategic; Outgoing character X Introvert character; Familiar setting X Warcamp; etc.) I think it will boil down to "I like this movie more because it's a comedy and comedy is my favorite genre. But as a drama, that other movie is great as well"

[Gdudism]

Originally posted by Neo NiGHTS ®:

I've played the hell out of Hades and it is one of my favorite games of all time.

But it's been so long since I've last played it (and have no will to do so) that I really have a hard time properly comparing both.

The bar had been set pretty high, indeed. Personally I wouldn't have released an Hades 2, or at least would have made another game in-between as a "palate cleanser", test new stuff, new mechanics etc.
But SGG took this risky road and... Well, Hades 2 is a pretty darn good game.

Now I just need to see how the story develops, some more tweaks here and there, QoL improvements and we will have another great game.

Since both games have some fundamental differences (Fast Paced x Strategic; Outgoing character X Introvert character; Familiar setting X Warcamp; etc.) I think it will boil down to "I like this movie more because it's a comedy and comedy is my favorite genre. But as a drama, that other movie is great as well"

Interesting movie analogy, I get what you mean though.

[MrSmiley]

Originally posted by Breathe:

I rarely see this take - but I actually like Hades II more already, in fact I liked it more from a few patches ago, and the very first time I played I had a special feeling about this game. Love me some Hades I but this game has even better music, a richer, deeper world, is less punishing and has more mechanics/gameplay to explore.

I like this one more too, between the weapon movesets, cast, and hex you can really builds yourself to do a lot at once and I can make most of those options feel good at the same time too. I see a lot of complaints about synergy but I havent had an issue piecing things together.

Storywise they are very different, though 1 currently stands out more to me because it was such a vibe, this one also has great characters though a more serious tone.

[Clareity]

Gameplay:

Honestly, Hades II feels like it some early progression problems. The unlocks come a lot slower, and a lot of aspects / weapons don't really function "smoothly" without sufficient upgrades.

Once I hit like 25hours (and multiple kills on both routes), the game started feeling "fun" and "fast paced" like original Hades gameplay.

The problem is, for the first 15 hours or so... the game felt like Chronos himself was slowing me down.

Hades 1 didn't feel like it had this problem, as progression wasn't really as vital to the "playstyle" of a lot of weapons. Honestly the Omega attacks are the main source of this, as so much of Melinoe's power is attached to them and they are soooo clunky without extra speed.

The endgame gameplay tho? Hades II is way better. SOOOO many unique builds to mess around with. Gameplay once you have stuff unlocked and are doing fear runs? Some of the most tense and exciting gameplay, Hades 1 doesn't even come close here imo.

Story:

Zag is a much funnier character. I enjoy some of the cast of Hades 2 a lot more, but M's just a little bit boring? I understand it fits the characterization and the story but it also makes the banter dialogue kinda dull. And that's a problem, when a huge driving factor of pushing the player to want to go "one more round" is to see what dialogue is coming next. In Zag's case, you were always eager to see the next dumb himbo conversation, here? I skip past dialogue because most of it is just some rehash of "oh no you don't get how serious I am, look at me, how could you be so candid about this Eris/Nemesis" while other characters either find her insufferable or join her in her seriousness.

[The Sojourner]

Originally posted by Clareity:

Honestly, Hades II feels like it some early progression problems. The unlocks come a lot slower, and a lot of aspects / weapons don't really function "smoothly" without sufficient upgrades.

Once I hit like 25hours (and multiple kills on both routes), the game started feeling "fun" and "fast paced" like original Hades gameplay.

The problem is, for the first 15 hours or so... the game felt like Chronos himself was slowing me down.

Hades 1 didn't feel like it had this problem, as progression wasn't really as vital to the "playstyle" of a lot of weapons. Honestly the Omega attacks are the main source of this, as so much of Melinoe's power is attached to them and they are soooo clunky without extra speed.

Yeah, there are currently some imbalances in the meta-progression, and much of it has to do with that now everything is tied to a much more complex resources system.

For solid players like myself, it could take until around Run 30 or so to unlock all the weapons and most, if not all, of the aspects — this was of course not the case in the original Hades. The Arcana are generally easier to unlock, though upgrading takes a bit more time (I suppose the Mirror of Night wasn't too different in that regard though). As for the decorative upgrades, it takes some time to build up Prestige in nice, useful amounts. Plus, some decorations require almost ridiculous amounts of Cinder at this point, causing a resource use/disposal imbalance.

My hope is that this can be fixed come v1.0, if not sooner.

[AquariaMoon]

Originally posted by The Sojourner:

Originally posted by Clareity:

Honestly, Hades II feels like it some early progression problems. The unlocks come a lot slower, and a lot of aspects / weapons don't really function "smoothly" without sufficient upgrades.

Once I hit like 25hours (and multiple kills on both routes), the game started feeling "fun" and "fast paced" like original Hades gameplay.

The problem is, for the first 15 hours or so... the game felt like Chronos himself was slowing me down.

Hades 1 didn't feel like it had this problem, as progression wasn't really as vital to the "playstyle" of a lot of weapons. Honestly the Omega attacks are the main source of this, as so much of Melinoe's power is attached to them and they are soooo clunky without extra speed.

Yeah, there are currently some imbalances in the meta-progression, and much of it has to do with that now everything is tied to a much more complex resources system.

For solid players like myself, it could take until around Run 30 or so to unlock all the weapons and most, if not all, of the aspects — this was of course not the case in the original Hades. The Arcana are generally easier to unlock, though upgrading takes a bit more time (I suppose the Mirror of Night wasn't too different in that regard though). As for the decorative upgrades, it takes some time to build up Prestige in nice, useful amounts. Plus, some decorations require almost ridiculous amounts of Cinder at this point, causing a resource use/disposal imbalance.

My hope is that this can be fixed come v1.0, if not sooner.

I've seen people mention the EA for Hades was similar and that progress is slower in EA because there just isn't that endgame to play through yet. No idea if that's true, but it feels plausible to me and something to keep in mind!

[Neo NiGHTS ®]

Originally posted by AquariaMoon:

Originally posted by The Sojourner:

Yeah, there are currently some imbalances in the meta-progression, and much of it has to do with that now everything is tied to a much more complex resources system.

For solid players like myself, it could take until around Run 30 or so to unlock all the weapons and most, if not all, of the aspects — this was of course not the case in the original Hades. The Arcana are generally easier to unlock, though upgrading takes a bit more time (I suppose the Mirror of Night wasn't too different in that regard though). As for the decorative upgrades, it takes some time to build up Prestige in nice, useful amounts. Plus, some decorations require almost ridiculous amounts of Cinder at this point, causing a resource use/disposal imbalance.

My hope is that this can be fixed come v1.0, if not sooner.

I've seen people mention the EA for Hades was similar and that progress is slower in EA because there just isn't that endgame to play through yet. No idea if that's true, but it feels plausible to me and something to keep in mind!

I played Hades in EA when it came to Steam, which has more or less halfway through the "actual" Early Access on Epic.

With that said, I've felt that on my first playthrough the progress was very slow because I didn't know what to focus on first.
When the game released and I started a fresh file, everything went way smoother BECAUSE I knew what to focus on.

With Hades 2 I tried to be more mindful on what I was spending my resources on but still, of course, with things changing here and there, the progress wasn't as fast (but it wasn't as slow as my first time with Hades either).

So I expect that once the game is fully released and with the experience I (we) have already, the progression will feel as smooth as Hades.
Maybe a tad slower, but the overall feel will be the same.

[Koala 4peace]

Originally posted by Neo NiGHTS ®:

I played Hades in EA when it came to Steam, which has more or less halfway through the "actual" Early Access on Epic.

With that said, I've felt that on my first playthrough the progress was very slow because I didn't know what to focus on first.
When the game released and I started a fresh file, everything went way smoother BECAUSE I knew what to focus on.

With Hades 2 I tried to be more mindful on what I was spending my resources on but still, of course, with things changing here and there, the progress wasn't as fast (but it wasn't as slow as my first time with Hades either).

So I expect that once the game is fully released and with the experience I (we) have already, the progression will feel as smooth as Hades.
Maybe a tad slower, but the overall feel will be the same.

Thankfully for me, the friend that gifted me Hades 1 gave enough pointers, so I didn't wasted too much resources. Still a lot, tho.

[Clareity]

Honestly, it's less the meta progression is slow - that in itself is fine. We as players need something to work towards. It's more that the meta progression is necessary for certain play styles to feel viable.

Omega moves as a baseline should be faster to channel, the corresponding speed buffs you get from upgrading can be tuned down so they are the same speed after maxing out your arcana and whatnot.

It's just that, you are given these fancy tools, only to realize they're actually kinda useless until spend a lot of resources maxing them out. It's a very weird situation where you spend the first 15 hours playing Hades 1, then all of a sudden a binary checkpoint in Omega Speed is reached and you are now playing Hades 2. It just feels awkward.

The best way to think about it is, in Hades 1, Fresh FIle Zag is stronger compared to Fresh File Melinoe (compared to their respective bosses).

Omega Moves are so clunky without any speed buffs.

[Neo NiGHTS ®]

I have the impression that most people haven't played Hades in Early Access and then compare a fully finished game to a game that changes every patch.
(combined with an uncanny affective memory)

[The Sojourner]

Originally posted by Clareity:

The best way to think about it is, in Hades 1, Fresh FIle Zag is stronger compared to Fresh File Melinoe (compared to their respective bosses).

Seems a little strange of a comparison to me tbh. Were it not for Eris slowing you down, I'd be taking down Chronos with relative ease on that first run.
Meanwhile, I struggle with defeating Hades — even Theseus perhaps — on a fresh file run in Hades. This seems to be due mostly to that (1) Melinoe has access to stronger gods than Zagreus did (viz. Aphrodite, Poseidon, and Demeter, but also Apollo and Hestia), and (2) the Underworld is made easier in Hades II, probably to contrast it with the Surface.

Also I feel ya with Omega moves. Mind faster Omega moves (e.g. from Hermes's Nimble Mind boon), faster channeling definitely feels better. and there are limited methods of making it happen (Chaos' boon, certain Hammer Enchantments, Arachne's dress).