[Theory + some spoilers] The possible "traitor" and insider that helped Chronos revive

[KING KOPIUM]

I've been having some thoughts and ideas. My knowledge on Greek mythology + how much in this game is loyal to it (sans how molest-y and incest-y zeus was in original Greek mythology).

But I think I have a good hunch on who from the previous game either helped Chronos revive, gave him info on the underworld, or promised him some form of insider knowledge on Tartarus to help Chronos overtake Hades.

I want you guys to think to Hades 1, who helps Zag in Tartarus? Sisyphus.
Now, who helps Melinoe in Tartarus? Daddy does. BUT you notice something strange about where Hades is imprisoned in Tartarus? It's proven that he's in Sisyphus' old prison. You can find a mossed over Bouldy who's seen better days behind Cerberus.

If you guys aren't aware, in the original mythos for Sisyphus and even in his story in Hades. He was NOT a good person. He was a king, but he was greedy, scheming, conniving, he was looking out for himself constantly. He killed a lot of people in his palace despite promoting trading, commerce, and navigation. Which falls under Zeus' domain of rule. So this put Sisyphus on Zeus' radar of wrath.

One thing he did that was the final straw for being on Zeus' sh*t list was reveal to the river god Asopus where his daughter was in exchange for him running a spring river through his city. Which angered Zeus more. So Zeus orders Thanatos to chain Sisyphus to Tartarus.

Hesitant to do so, wondering why Charon doesn't take Sisyphus to the underworld. Thanatos takes him. But Sisyphus tricks Thanatos by playing dumb, asking how to chain himself. Thanatos falls for this, and Sisyphus chains him to Tartarus. Thus, because the god of death is out of commission? Mortal kind is now immortal for a time. Ares investigates why death isn't happening because there's no death happening despite there being a huge war going on in his domain.

Ares eventually finds Thanatos, which results in Sisyphus getting his iconic punishment of rolling the boulder up the hill for all of eternity. If you want some more context on the background of his mythos, I suggest you read up on him. They imply in Hades 1 the majority of this stuff happens. This is seen in dialogue from both Sisyphus himself and from Meg telling Zag that he was not a good person.

Sisyphus has NO reason to be sympathetic or loyal to any of the gods of either Olympus or the Underworld outside of Zag. In the end of Sisyphus' storyline in Hades 1 despite Zag being kind enough to get his orders of punishment taken away? Sisyphus intentionally stays in his prison because. "Oh it's nice Meg isn't around to lash me anymore, but I can't just leave Bouldy behind!"

From what we know in Hades 2 so far, Sisyphus got out of dodge shortly after Chronos made his move against his son and family. Sisyphus 100% left bouldy behind. And Hades is in his old prison for what reason? Chained up in a similar fashion to how Sisyphus was?

I believe Sisyphus is either one of the reasons Chronos was reassembled. Or he gave Chronos a deal in exchange for his freedom. In the Olympus campaign that we do have in Hades 2 right now, you can sometimes randomly see boulders fall as a trap. Though this might be Polyphemus and not anything to do with Sisyphus since Poly has rocks in his attack set.

I believe either once you pass Zag's room in the Underworld campaign, or after what happens further into the Olypmus campaign? I think we'll see what happened to Sisyphus. And I think he was who gave Chronos inside knowledge. Maybe even directed him to Chaos to find out where the Fates were. If Sisyphus is in good cahoots with the Titan of time? How can he die? All the gods outside of Zag hated him and his actions anyways. Sisyphus had zero remorse as a person and he's also got no reason to stay after Zag unbound him in Hades 1. He was up to something.

I believe Sisyphus is our "traitor"

[Silyon]

So how much do you really think Sisyphus could have done from where he was chained up, and until relatively recently had one of the furies checking in on him the equivalent of every few hours? You make it sound as if the man had a long game going, but he's been chained to bouldy for far longer than even that.

And how do we address Eris? The elephant-in-the-room traitor that blocks your path downward if you progress too quickly, and is currently barring us from approaching Olympus on the surface route? between being the incarnate of Strife and having somehow gotten her hands on the Adamant Rail despite literally no one wanting her to have it, she seems the much more likely candidate for "traitor" than anyone from the first game.

[Tony Shor]

#SAVEBOULDY

[Travelinjack]

I believe Sisyphus is our "traitor" [/quote]

I disagree. While it is true that you've done your homework. It seems that you've allowed prejudice to narrow your focus.
Are you familiar with the Homeric hymns?
There's a passage where Aphrodite falls in love with a mortal man and goes and pretends to be a queen so she can sleep with him asap. When he finds out she's a Goddess he freaks out and it takes her some doing to calm him down.
He's not really freaking out because she's so wonderful... he's freaking out because:

ALL MORTALS WHO DEAL WITH THE GODS ALWAYS END UP WORSE FOR THE WEAR.

In fact almost every single mortal or demi has a tragic story because a god/titan didn't particularly like them much.

If you are saying "It's Sisyphus" because he's done bad stuff... I think you're ignoring the fact that there's a whole host of people with grudges against gods.

But more to the point. In the game Chronos is asked how he came to re-constitute himself.
He responds that blood sacrifices helped.
The dead don't bleed. So it's unlikely that Sisyphus was the traitor.

Personally I would think Eris started a cult of Cronos (notice the plebs you fight above ground) and people willingly gave blood sacrifice to get their golden age. She's a goddess of strife and discord. It's very much within her power to do this.

[VAL]

Originally posted by Scylla & The Sirens:

Originally posted by brun🎨:

Remember the Hades 1's last biome, all the talk about the satyrs? Did you see who's fighting alongside Chronos in the Hades 2's final fight? There are no traitors, it was the satyrs

To add to this, Zagreus was sacrificing Chronos' blood to unlock the aspects of his weapons in the first game as well, so Zagreus might have unintentionally helped things along as well.

Oh chronos did mention that blood sacrifices helped during your fight with him!!

[Tony Shor]

Originally posted by Scylla & The Sirens:

Originally posted by brun🎨:

Remember the Hades 1's last biome, all the talk about the satyrs? Did you see who's fighting alongside Chronos in the Hades 2's final fight? There are no traitors, it was the satyrs

To add to this, Zagreus was sacrificing Chronos' blood to unlock the aspects of his weapons in the first game as well, so Zagreus might have unintentionally helped things along as well.

True, lolul. Titan's blood, that opens the aspects of the owners from other Times.
It's all coming together.)

[amp]

in the myths baby Zagreus was killed and eaten by titans; before his death he tried to escape by changing shapes and at one point changed into Chronos - what if (aside from using Titan's blood for weapon enhancement) Zagreus repeated deaths were the actual blood sacrifices Chronos talks about? Zagreus continued existence was an abberation - the change of three fates plans - what if Zag first revival was a trigger for Chronos return?

also Eris is sus

[Cutthroat Cutwire]

Melinoe confronts Chronos about Eris, and he admits he had no idea she was on his "side" but was pleased with her actions nonetheless. I don't think Eris is a traitor, or has "loyalties" in general, she just does whatever she thinks will produce the most entertainment, and that occasionally means doing stuff to get in our way.

[Specific Beef]

This is a great theory! I hope it's true. There are also hints in the dialogue that even Chronos isn't as bad as he seems, or necessarily out to do what he's seeming to do.

We also have Athena, Ares and Dionysus missing, although they could be just gone to make space in the game for the new gods.

I still think Hecate could have freed Chronos, and there have been some exchanges with her that feel weird, but then again we're probably looking at an endlessly playable game again so Hecate being a traitor the pantheon doesn't really make sense in design terms.

[amp]

Originally posted by Specific Beef:

I still think Hecate could have freed Chronos, and there have been some weird exchanges with her that feel weird, but then again we're probably looking at an endlessly playable game again so Hecate being a traitor the pantheon doesn't really make sense in design terms.

same here, Hecate is kinda sus, her taking control over baby Mel's life seems questionable when girl had large powerful family, Demeter would have loved her and taken good care of her. It seems like Hecate was grooming Mel to complete her own secret agenda that might not actualy be in favor of house hades and olympus. A twist similar to that in Jade Empire where trusted master and teacher turned out to be the true villain that trained the MC to do his bidding and instilled a flaw in his fighting techniques to overpower MC easily

[Overeagerdragon]

...hate to bring metagame thinking into this but I think Hecate helped revive Chronos but Chaos is actually our traitor... considdering what ingredients you need in order to "prevent" chronos from reconstituting himself...

And Hecate...
Well I doubt her saying she was a titaness was a lie in that melinoe flashback...

She also makes comments that Hades shouldn't thank her and her accepting his gratitude would be poor decorum. There's just something off about that if you ask me....

Not to mention that Selune is the mythological godess of "good witches" whereas Hecate is more symbolic of the darker, more necromantic, arts

[VAL]

Originally posted by amp:

Originally posted by Specific Beef:

I still think Hecate could have freed Chronos, and there have been some weird exchanges with her that feel weird, but then again we're probably looking at an endlessly playable game again so Hecate being a traitor the pantheon doesn't really make sense in design terms.

same here, Hecate is kinda sus, her taking control over baby Mel's life seems questionable when girl had large powerful family, Demeter would have loved her and taken good care of her. It seems like Hecate was grooming Mel to complete her own secret agenda that might not actualy be in favor of house hades and olympus. A twist similar to that in Jade Empire where trusted master and teacher turned out to be the true villain that trained the MC to do his bidding and instilled a flaw in his fighting techniques to overpower MC easily

Demeter could not take care of melinoe bc melinoe carried the curse of her father to never walk the surface.

[amp]

Originally posted by VAL:

Demeter could not take care of melinoe bc melinoe carried the curse of her father to never walk the surface.

true, but i still think Demeter would have come up with something to take care of Mel, and even if she could not, she still should have been informed about her grandkid fate - but then Hecate would not have full control of Mel