(UPDATE 2.0) Giant In-Depth Feedback Post from 2000+ Hour Player

[Luminaire7]

(NOTE: Some edits have been added as well as some post-patch feedback at the end of the OP).
(ALSO NOTE: Even more feedback has been added after more playtesting, this is comment #54 on page 4 of the thread.)

Howdy. As stated in the title, I have spent about 2000 hours in Hades 1 and have been playing the Hades 2 early access quite a bit so far (about 170 hours). I also have something of a resume for giving high-quality feedback for game development, as I have done so with several other games and been credited by the devs specifically. I have had my fingerprints on games such as Enter The Gungeon, Skul the Hero Slayer and Deflector, which actually has my name in the credits from all the help I gave them. But besides all the bragging, I do have a lot to say about the current state of Hades 2, though slightly less than I did this morning because as I was typing this the 2nd early access patch dropped, which did address some of the things I was going to mention, so I'll note that in the post. So anyway, lets get started....


HEXES -

While the hexes did get some adjustments just now and were mostly buffed, the general feeling about them is still that, most of the time, they just aren't worth it. Nearly all of them start out VERY weak, which feels pretty bad as some kind of meter-dependant "special move" ala the calls from Hades 1. They vary wildly in usefulness, and while some of them can still be pretty impressive eventually, they take a large amount of investment in 2-3 selene boons to stay relevant, which are not the main god boons that make your core build stronger, and the Hex's also don't really scale off anything else in your build save global damage buffs (unlike how zeus boons would also boost zeus' call)t. There is also the issue that Selene boons do NOT appear in the 4th stage, which means you have to do that heavy investment in them even earlier in the game (EDIT: Apparantly you CAN get selene in the 4th stage, but I have literally never seen it happen so it must be extremely rare or forceable somehow). Plus because they are charged by spending MP, any build that doesn't spend much MP just ignores Hex's entirely, or taking an MP cost-reducing boon will directly anti-synergize with any Hex, meaning that mana regen is automatically the far better choice over cost reduction if you want to care about Hex's at all.
To help fix this, I think a very good idea would be to do 3 things: First of all, make it so that taking your first Selene boon lets you spend the upgrade points IMMEDIATELY upon taking the hex, rather than waiting until you find another one. Second of all, increase the strength of the small stacking upgrades you pick on the Hex upgrade tree. Third, make it so that the Moon Beam Keepsake increases the odds of finding a Selene boon, the same way the other god keepsakes work. And as far as specific Hex's go.....

Dark Side - I don't understand why the mana cost for this was increased in the patch. This is, by far, the worst hex in the game. The damage you deal while transformed is absolutely pitiful. The only quality this really has is turning you invincible, but with kneecapped DPS, it's way better to take the time-slow hex. This is nowhere near the "turn into big scary super mode" it's supposed to be, the damage output on this thing needs to be not just boosted, but literally multiplied.

Night Bloom - The necromancer Hex. This did get some buffs in the patch, but there is still one major problem with it, and that's the randomness of which enemy you revive. Reviving a single tiny enemy that usually comes at you in swarms feels terrible and isn't useful, while rezzing a badass werewolf to fight with you feels rad. To fix this, the Hex should prioritize the strongest enemy you've killed in the room, or simply revive the most recent thing you killed, rather than choosing one at random.

Twilight Curse - aka sheepify. This also got some buffs, but is still held back by how useless it is against bosses. The only thing you really get is the upgrade where it does a mere 250 damage to a boss. That should be increased. And while I don't expect you to be able to sheepify a boss, you could still have the Hex inflict a curse effect on them. Something like: "Curse: Sheepish. Guardian is 30% Slower and takes 30% more damage. Lasts 10 seconds."
(EDIT: The minor buffs that increase damage to sheep DO affect bosses, even though they are not transformed. This is a lot more noticeable now that the mana cost is so low and it's actually worth investing in. I take back most of my criticism of this Hex, it does not need a curse effect on it)

Lunar Ray - aka Son of Crystal Beam. Like crystal beam, This has potential to be good but requires several certain upgrades, namely the one that lets it fire without locking you in place. The damage is not nearly enough to justify sitting still for 3 full seconds while enemies jump on your face, and the -10% damage upgrades aren't a huge help. This got buffed in the patch, but I'll have to try it out and see how much better it is.
(EDIT: This was not buffed....it's worse now)

The other Hexs are decent to good and will be fixed just by doing the first couple of things I mentioned to boost Hexs up in general.



GODS/BOONS -

Legendary/Duo Boons - In general, the legendary and duo boons in the game feel much more restrictive and harder to get than in hades 1. For the legendary boons, they all now require a minimum of 4 boons to get, as opposed to the hades 1 system of only needing a "Tier 1" and "Tier 2" boon and then the legendary as your 3rd (the exception being demeter and arguably artemis). There is also the fact that legendary and duo boons in Hades 2 seem a lot pickier about needing specific boons, which makes them harder to get, harder to memorize, and more restrictive and less fun to go for. Sometimes these restrictions don't even make sense, for example Demeter's legendary is based off freezing enemies, but you can't get it by taking her cast, even though it freezes enemies. This is nonsensical and pointlessly obnoxious. To make my point clearer, I feel like getting Apollo's legendary would be like this:
Hades 1 -
(one of)
Attack
Flourish
Cast
Dash
Gain

(also one of)
Extra Dose
Super Nova
Dazzling Display

While in Hades 2 it's -
(one of)
Attack
Flourish

(and one of)
Cast
Gain

(and one of)
Extra Dose
Super Nova

To top it off, it really feels like most of the legendary and duo boons in Hades 2 just simply.....aren't that good. Some of them are super awkward to use, and while I don't fault trying to be creative at all, many of them are just plain weak and not worth seeking out. The power level of legendary/duo boons in Hades 2 is not even close to what it was in hades 1, on top of them being harder to get now. But I'll address those case-by-case...


ZEUS -
Zeus is kind of a weird grab-bag of effects, many of which don't synergize with each other at all. I can see where they were going with some of these, but his kit really needs some refinement.

Blitz Curse - Basically the new Doom, I think blitz is a cool effect, however it currently has one MAJOR flaw, and that's that it does not count itself toward the origination arcana (aka curse stack damage boost). I think this is because the damage animation doesn't actually land until slightly after the curse is proc'd (aka the the little cloud goes off). But in any case, this needs to be fixed asap. Blitz is the only curse effect that has this problem.

Gain - Zeus' gain is extremely awkward and not that good. I understand the idea is to have very low max MP but lots of regen, and pair that with effects that do things when you have max or no MP (I do like that his gain combos well with a hera boon for some thematic husband-wife vibes), but the massive -70% max MP is very hard to make work with any other build, and basically shuts you out of any boons that prime MP for effects...including his own which is extremely strange. Many other gain boons will give you same or better regen for a far less harsh downside. I don't think this needs much, but it really feels like it should be at least a little better. An extra +2-4 regen and/or slightly less of a penalty would be appreciated.

Spirit Surge - This is the only boon in Zeus' kit that actually synergizes with his gain (the oom zap). While I get the idea and actually think this is pretty cool, it's the ONLY thing that benefits from the way his gain works, and it just plain isn't strong enough to justify it. I would suggest something like:
Damage 60 -> 80, cooldown 5 sec -> 3 sec.

Static Shock - 90's reference aside, it's very weird that the guy who cripples your max MP also asks for by far the biggest MP prime, meaning you literally have to choose one or the other. While static shock is good, maybe shave the prime amount down a bit.

Double Strike - This boon and many other's like it, seem to have been nerfed across the board in hades 2. This could just be me remembering how much I love double strike from hades 1, but the nerf here is way too harsh. Instead of 5/10/15%, I would increase it to at least 10/15/20%.

Divine Vengeance - While I'm mostly fine with how this one works, It's what happens when you level it up that bothers me. Increasing the maximum number of times in a row you can win a coin flip is incredibly bad, as each pom you spend on it has exponentially less and less chance of doing literally anything at all (just getting a 3-hit off of this is a 1/8 chance, a 4-hit is a 1/16, etc etc). I would MUCH rather leveling up this boon increase the percentage chance of it hitting again rather than the maximum times it can hit.

Air Quality - This is a very odd elemental boon. While I see what it's trying to do with upgrading all your weak lighting bolt effects, the fact is 5 wind is a lot and by the time you get that, you are probably already doing at least 30 damage with everything you do. Even his other lightning effects can be boosted to near or over 30 damage with just 1 or 2 poms. This really just feels like a waste and asks you to NOT upgrade your moves on the off chance you get this. There are a small number of good combos with it, like with demeter's cyclone and supposedly hestia's scorch, but that's about it and I haven't really gotten those to happen yet. I think the minimum damage should be upped to 40.

Toasting Fork - Since Blitz goes off by dealing damage, you have to apply blitz and then avoid fighting completely to let this do anything at all. Because of that, it should start at doing more than 100% damage instead of needing to be epic/heroic to go past 100%.

Shocking Loss (Legendary) - This is probably the worst legendary in the game. I'm not against the idea of it, but the number is just too low. The fact that it takes so long to get the legendary and that it does nothing to bosses means you will rarely see this do anything before the 4th level, which you may well be rushing through anyway, and even then you won't see it do much at only a 7% chance. I would change it to...
Smite Chance: 7% -> 15%. Now removes 10% of a guardian's health at the start of battle.

King's Ransom (duo) - Kings ransom gives +2 levels per boon. Queen's Rasom gives +3. Don't be sexist. Make it both +3.

Romantic Spark (Duo) - This is one of the best duo boons in Hades 2 and is the power level that a duo boon should be at.

Killer Current (duo) - Not bad but not quite strong enough. Boost to +50% damage.

Thermal Dynamics - Again not bad but not quite strong enough. Boost to +100 scorch.


HERA -
Hera's theme is a lot more consistent than Zeus. Hitch is neat and Hera has a lot of solid boons that synergize with her kit. She also has, bar none, the best Gain skill in the game by orders of magnitude. Still there are a few things that stick out here...

Dying Wish - One of my issues with the balance of Hades 1 was that the death exposion boon from Aphrodite was just too weak to be very useful. This is basically that boon glued onto hera instead, and the same problem is here. The number is just too damn low. Even at epic rarity 80 damage is just not very impressive, and below epic rarity this is just laughably weak....yet you might have to take it to get the legendary because you just couldn't find Hereditary Bane, which is so much better in every way.
Changed from 40/60/80 -> 80/100/120

Born Gain - This is a single player game, so buffing weak stuff is a lot more important than nerfing OP stuff, that said, Hera's gain skill is entire planets ahead of anything else on the table. You could literally double the prime cost and it would still be the best gain skill by a wide margin. So do that. Or don't. I'm not even complaining that there's a defacto best MP skill, but maybe tone it down just a tad.

Engagement Ring - Hera's cast is.....so odd. I see the experimentation of doing some creative stuff, but the weirdness on this is not worth the lack of usefulness. Making your casts last extra long means abandoning your Omega Cast, basically. Damaging enemies on spawn is a neat idea and has some funny examples like the fish swarms in stage 2 or the rats in stage 4 just insta popping, but overall the damage it does is not that good, and while the idea is clearly "I put down my pillow fort and only fight inside it", this doesn't work at all against bosses and other dangerous enemies that don't get trapped in it and force you to leave with their attacks. I would rework it to something like....
Damage 70/100/130 -> 100/130/160, now does damage to every enemy that enters the ring, each time they enter the ring. (this would have amazing synergy with Demeter's local climate).

Cherished Hierloom (duo) - This is FAR too weak. I like the idea of upgrading your equipment but +1 keepsake level is basically nothing. This should be +2 if not +3.

Soul Mate (duo) - Neat idea, thematic and all. But for anti-synergizing with how hitch is designed to work (a ton of enemies down to just 2), the damage bonus needs to be much higher.

Spiteful Strength (duo) - Nobody wants to use this. Not having boons is boring. If you wanna grug caveman punch stuff, it better be worth it. Damage 200% -> 300%.

[Luminaire7]

HESTIA -
Hestia has some good boons on her, but she has one MAJOR problem, and it's name is scorch.
Scorch Curse - Scorch is the worst curse in the game by a mile. It needs tons of help as right now it basically only exists to help activate origination. When compared to other effects in Hades 2 and even effects from Hades 1, scorch is riddled with problems. For example with posidon's splash damage or dionysus's poison (hangover), it's not nearly as good as either. Let's break it down...

Scorch: Does 15-30 starting damage per hit over several seconds.
Splash: Does the same damage, instantly, in an aoe cone.
Poison: Does way more damage over several seconds.
Stacking poison: increases damage, time stays the same.
Stacking scorch: increases damage, but also the amount of time it takes to happen. Don't forget that stage timer!!!!

Splash: has an upgrade with slip that makes it do more damage.
Poison: has 2 duo boons that upgrade damage with faster ticks and higher max stacks. Time to deal damage remains at 4 seconds max.
Scorch: has explode effect that does damage instantly, but it's significantly less damage than it would normally do. Has boon for faster ticks but it's legendary and hard to get on top of being VERY necessary to even try to keep up with enemy health.

Scorch seems fun at first but even at 0 fear it falls off a cliff without a ton of investment in it, and even then it's just meh. It simply isn't as good as other damage effects in the game or the last game.
How to fix this? The easiest way is to simply make the 300 stack explosion boon stronger. You need, and I mean NEED the Fire Extinguisher boon to keep scorch relevant past the 2nd stage. Have it start at something like 90/100/110 and can be pom'd higher, because the current 50/62/75 is just laughable. There is also the issue that some scorch-boosting boons directly work against the fire extinguisher boon, like Hestia's Legendary (which helps but just isn't enough) and the Hestia/Demeter duo (which results in absurd numbers of scorch that do literally nothing because of how long it would take to burn through it all. I have personally done 16,000 scorch on a miniboss then sat there and stared at it for several minutes and it still wasn't dead yet). However, while the fire extinguisher buff is an obvious and needed fix, I think the whole "I have a morbillion scorch, now what" problem can be turned into a feature. Gamers love seeing giant numbers on their screens, after all. Change Fire Extinguisher so that instead of popping at 300 stacks, it goes off with your Omega Cast and burns all current scorch on an enemy. That way you can still get the huge buildup and payoff feeling of using it and it encourages you to use more of your kit (the o-cast would be best because you might be using your omega special/attack to build up scorch). So in total the changes I propose would be:

Scorch DPS: 40/sec -> 50/sec
Attack: 20 -> 25 scorch
Flourish: 15 -> 35 scorch (odd that flourish was less to begin with)
Cast: 30 -> 35 scorch
Fire Extinguisher: 50/62/75% -> 90/100/110%. Now detonates all current scorch on an enemy when hit with your Omega Cast.
Pyro Technique (Legendary): Scorch speed increased 100% -> 120% (this is to give 2 options for late game scaling on your scorch effects instead of requiring extinguisher or bust).
Soot Sprint: (rework) Dash/Sprint ignore projectiles. Inflict 15/20/25 scorch on enemies around you for each projectile ignored or if you touch them.


Soot Sprint: This is the worst dash in the game. By far. 2 scorch per projectile, bro? TWO? BRO? This is the farthest cry from Hades 1 Athena dash that reflected projectiles AND melee attacks. A moderate rework is suggested above. This isn't even good for applying curse.

Natural Gas: (Insert what I said about Hera's dying wish boon).

Glowing Coal/Controlled Burn: Good boons but the fireball projectile needs to move faster and have a wider hitbox.

Burning Desire (duo): Not a bad idea, I like utilizing new mechanics...but make the shades continuously spawn instead of just appearing once at the start of the room. Much better.

Scalding Vapor (duo): Definitely one of the better duos in the game, but don't make it so that Scald removes slip. This means triggering the steam effect will remove your origination damage unless you have a 3rd curse to apply. Very annoying.


APOLLO -
Apollo has an ok kit that is hard carried by having some of the best boons in the game. Namely the best cast and best legendary. The rest is kind of mid.

Daze Curse - Is really just for applying a curse for origination. 20% dodge chance means you have to get hit on average 5 times for this to do anything at all, plus Apollo has the hardest time of any god actually applying his curse effect. Maybe increase it to 25%.

Extra Dose - Sounds good, but is kind of underwhelming in practice. In the same vein as Zeus' double strike, up this by 5%. (So 10/12/15% from 5/8/10)

Dazzling Display - Again, Apollo has the hardest time actually applying his curse. Increase this from 10/15/20% to 15/20/25% and make it work on your special not just your attack.

Critical Miss - This is actually really bad. It only goes off when a dazed enemy misses you, so that's a "when you get hit" skill that fails 80% of the time you get hit. So on average it only does 20/30/40 damage per time you get hit. Wow that's bad. I would increase the damage by a good 100 and/or make it work off ANY time an enemy misses you, giving it synergy with other dodge effects like hermes and the dodge arcana.

Exceptional Talent (legendary) - This is the best legendary. However, it appears to be very wonky and/or bugged. Some attacks will get the +20 MP cost but NOT get the double damage effect, like for example the skull omega special (as far as I could tell). It also does not seem to combo with the axe hammer that makes you fire 2 omega specials, again adding +20 cost but giving no effect. I have heard it also stops working with the Axe omega attack if you get the psychic whirlwind hammer.

Beach Ball (duo) - Fun idea, but this is one of the boons that is WAY too restrictive to get. It's also a little too weak.
Damage: 140 -> 180
Requirements:
(one of)
any dash boon
(also one of)
apollo attack/special/cast/gain
(also one of)
poseidon attack/special/cast/gain

Sunny Disposition (duo): Heartthrobs +2 -> +3. I just think they're neat. :D



HAEPHESTUS -
Haep has a pretty solid and obvious theme and some good stuff. Not a lot of real issues but he could be buffed up just a tad in a few spots.

Smite Effects - Having an actual circle on the ground denoting the aoe range would be a good QOL improvement. A lot of the time you're just vibing it out. Easy to keep the theme by doing a sort of "vibration shockwave" visual effect.

Attack/Flourish - Seem cool at first, but unless you dump tons of poms into them they fall off hard because of how long it is between procs. You could easily shave 2 seconds off of each of them and they'd still just be decent without heavy investment. Otherwise they're mostly just "remind me to use that button I've been ignoring this run" effects, which isn't a bad thing but maybe make it a little easier for them to be main attractions like his fabulous dash boon.

Anvil Ring - Neat idea but the tiny aoe is just......just SO tiny....and SO bad against bosses...could you make it a little bigger, please? Or at least make it apply vent?

Fixed Gain - Oof. Worst gain in the game. Could use something as a buff. +5% damage reduction? Restores 50/62/75% of your max MP instead of a flat amount? Activates when you get attacked (not take damage) and therefore works with dodge/winter coat/mint condition? Something?

Fine Tuning (Legendary) - Same problem as the Keepsake duo. Neat idea but +1 is wayyyy to little. +2 at minimum.

Seismic Hammer (duo) - 15 Seconds is just too long for this. Drop it down to 10 or at least 12. If you're taking poseidon cast you're probably centering your build around it so give us a payoff for that investment.



POSEIDON -
P-donny, Possy, The Don. Whatever you call him, he's overall way better in Hades 2 than he was in Hades 1. Hitting double up on triple poms makes me moan like a lonely housewife. Hell, you can even double up on selene boons! (don't change that!). Still....as always...there's stuff to polish up and he has at least one (ok two) glaring issues...

Slip Curse - Why, oh why, does ONLY his attack and special get slip? His Dash and Cast also use surges of water, also shove enemies away and cause wallslam, yet DON'T get to apply slip? This just....doesn't make sense. It feels extremely bad and unintuitive, and also irritates you when you figure out that "splash" is a keyword for no apparent reason. Just let his dash and cast apply slip. Please. I beg you.

Crashing Wave - aka wallslam. While not a universal mechanic like in Hades 1, wallslam being exclusively poseidon's thing makes sense. However, this boon is FAR weaker than it was in hades 1, despite doing wallslams being much harder than it used to be, since his attack/special don't knock away the enemy you are hitting but only the ones behind it, with this and other effects not seeming to shove enemies as much as they did in the previous game. Restore this to its former 100/150/200 damage from Hades 1.

Geyser Ring - Poseidon's cast does NOT get the damage boost from the Charon Axe's cleave-cast effect, nor does it get the +30% damage from the furies arcana. Please fix this.

Hydraulic Might - This was something I wanted done in the first game. 10 seconds is too short of a time for this to be worth that much, despite the big numbers you see on the attack stat. Give this +5 seconds of duration or at least make pomming it increase duration instead of the attack buff.

King Tide (legendary) - This is the most restrictive legendary to get, and very single-minded "I'm just gonna spam one button"(oh hey momus what's up?). Please let it work with dash/cast as well and change it to "knockback effect bonus damage" to include them instead of just exclusively the splash cone.

Island Getaway (duo) - This is basically just for the damage reduction, since building around aphro attack/special means a short range attack anyway, unless you wanna take a crazy gamble that you'll get this. You should be able to use aphro gain to get this, since it should be affected by the "nearby" keyword as well.

Golden Rule (duo) - Another duo boon with really awkward and restrictive requirements. Why can't you use the attack or special from either god for this?


DEMETER -
And the prize for most improved kit goes to...(drumroll please)... MISS DEMETER! COME ON DOWN!!!
I cannot stress enough how much better demeter is in Hades 2 than she was in Hades 1. She may legit be the overall best god in the game right now. Freeze is leagues better than her chill effect from the first game. I have only a few nitpicks for her...

Cyclone Curse - Just fix the tooltip so it's listed as a curse.

Plentiful Forage - This is not only really weak, but also pomable for some reason, meaning it takes up pom opportunities that could be filled by other boons but gives you basically nothing. A buff would be nice but demeter has so much other good stuff I don't mind one dud skill, but please make it no longer pomable. It's just a waste for that.

Gale Force - I feel like this should follow you when you have Local Climate...not a huge deal but it feels odd that it doesn't.

Winter Harvest (Legendary) - This boon is about using freeze and you can't get it with her cast boon....which inflicts freeze. C'mon guys. Fix this. :(
(also what happened to the scythe animation on bosses?)

Room Temperature (duo) - Same as above. Please fix.

Freezer Burn (duo) - Same as above. Please fix.



APHRODITE -
Honestly? Actually? No complaints really.... very solid and well-rounded kit. Thematically consistent. No obvious "dud" boons, just some situational ones. Also nothing super powerful, but usually aphro has something you can put to good use in your build. Has issues with some duo boons but those were already mentioned. Legendary is meh but arguably about the same as the last game...

[Luminaire7]

WEAPONS/ASPECTS -
Note: There's going to be stuff that I mentioned that actually just got fixed in todays patch. Will point those things out.


STAFF -

Circe - Easily the weakest aspect in the game. Serenity is just a very weak effect, increasing damage as well as channel speed would be an easy fix. (THIS WAS DONE)
There is also a weird tooltip at circe lv4 that says 9.1 second duration.

Momus - Yo nerf this thing. OP and braindead. Single player game and all but this needs to be stopped. (THIS WAS DONE. COMPLETE REWORK EVEN)

STAFF HAMMERS -
There are a bunch of hammers that affect your special or attack but NOT your omega special or attack. These should be fixed. (THEY WERE).

Rapid Moonshot - FIXED
Dual Moonshot - FIXED
Shimmering Moonshot - FIXED


DAGGERS -
My one issue with the daggers is that while there is a small red circle under an enemy when they're your target for the omega attack, it would be helpful to have an actual range indicator on that move.

Artemis - Increased channel speed on omega attack is a pretty "meh" thing to invest into. Your o-atack is only 10 mana and doesn't take long to charge anyway. As far as I can tell you can still parry while mid-charge. I would much rather have leveling up the artemis daggers lower the cooldown of the parry effect or increase the number of crit attacks you get. It feels way more impactful...because it is.
Minor Rework - Omega attack channels 20% faster. Parry cooldown 16/15/14/13/12.
Also, the parry effect needs to take priority over shields and dodging. (THIS WAS DONE)
(EDIT: NO IT WASN'T)


Pan - The amount of time you have to drop a cast, dash out and then fully charge your omega special is just BARELY enough to get the full charge. This makes channel speed an actual priority on pan daggers because you have such a small window to do the combo correctly. A slight increase on the o-special channeling speed would be appreciated.

DAGGER HAMMERS -
No complaints.


AXE -
There is one big issue with the axe weapon in general. When doing the omega special, there is a huge gap in between the shield going away and the attack coming out, during which you can't move but are totally open to getting hit. This makes timing the move extremely obnoxious because you can block 4 incoming hits but then get smacked for half your HP before the big shockwave comes out. (This has been made better in the patch by the slowdown efffect working properly but is still an issue).

Thanatos - I was going to say this weapon needs to be buffed but it was reworked entirely. I'll have to get back to you on it.

AXE HAMMERS -
No complaints.


TORCHES -
I can't stand the torches. They are extremely difficult to use well (unless you just spam omega special) and have pretty weak reward even when you do get to use them well. They do very low damage and absolutely guzzle your MP. Fortunately they got a bunch of buffs in the patch today, so I'll have to try them out again. One thing I did not see in the buffs today, though, was an increase in the hit box of the torch's attack, which is something I think it could use. But I'll try out the new buffs first.

Eos - Had complaints but was reworked.

TORCH HAMMERS -
A big problem with the torches is that a lot of its hammers are REALLY bad. Fortunately a lot of these were fixed just now.

Furious Fire: THIS WAS FIXED
Sustained Spark: THIS WAS FIXED
Melting Coil: Should affect omega special (THIS WAS DONE)
Clean Helix: This gives you -2 MP cost on your omega special. Realy? -2? Is that a mistake? THIS WAS FIXED.
Rising Coil (I think): The one that makes your special grow over time. This seems to be over the duration of the attack, not a set amount of time. Meaning your special will power up very quickly but your omega special will take several seconds to grow even though it lasts much longer on the screen. Also the 25% damage increase is pretty low given the only base 25/20 damage of your special/omega special. I think this hammer needs a pretty good buff.


SKULL -
Skull is a really interesting weapon, I have few complaints save for one major issue.

Persephone - The charge meter is absurd. (THIS WAS FIXED).
Medea - Being able to instantly load your attack instead of stopping to do the animation would be very nice. Not required, but nice.


SKULL HAMMERS -

Colossus Driver - Needs to apply to omega special (THIS WAS DONE)
Sidelong Crash - Should specify it fires to your left. (WAS JUST DELETED NVM)
Sudden Driver - "X is faster" effects do not specify they also boost channel speed. They should.



ARCANA -
A few notes on adjusting the arcana costs.
Artificer - Way too expensive. This is not even close to being worth the only 6 cost arcana. I don't think there should even be a 6 coster to begin with really, but if there was it certainly isn't this one.
Night - Nobody takes this. 4 cost is way too much for "regen" that only affects your Hex. Should be reduced to 3.
Moon - This is neat and the +100 sounds great, but it's actually overpriced at 3 grasp. Furies is much stronger but only costs 2. Origination is MUCH stronger and also costs 3. I think moon should be dropped to 2 grasp.
Boatman - 5 grasp is too much for this. It should be dropped to 4. Then aritificer can be dropped to 5 to take its place as a 5-cost.
Fates/Champions - It feels odd that these are different costs. Granted, rerolling rewards IS better than rerolling rooms, but it could just be that the whole reroll corner of the arcana board is really expensive because of boatman.


ENEMIES -

Harpies - The whirlwind projectiles these guys shoot get way too much of a pain way too quickly. They can almost immediately cover the room in unavoidable attacks that last a really long time, and they have too much armor/hp to be killed quickly most of the time.

Heartless - The soldier dudes in the mourning fields that throw exploding mines at you. They just detonate too damn fast. They prettymuch go off instantly, if you were doing anything other than waiting to dodge them then you get hit by it, and you often just don't have that luxury while other enemies mob you (at least at +40% speed from fear, anyway).


OTHER STUFF -
Various miscellaneous things to mention....

- Having a starting max HP/MP of 70/90 is rather awkward. In hades 1 you started at 50hp and boosted it to 100. A clean 100/100 HP/MP would be nice.
-Artemis' Support Fire boon isn't nearly as good as it used to be. It fires way slower than before no matter how fast you attack. Please fix this.
-Hermes' Boons and other effects that say "X is faster" don't specify that it includes channel speed. It should.
- When doing the pitch black stone challenges, you can't collect any resources. You should be able to (plants, metal, etc).
- Circe's boon that boosts pet abilities is vague and probably not very good but I can't tell because it's vague.
- You should be able to check the boon list while selecting a boon. (THIS WAS DONE).
- When looking through the boon list 4-5 items per page would be great instead of scrolling through them 3 at a time.
- The level timer should stop when using the bat cages to look at the surface level.
- I've only ever seen chaos boons on the surface in the very first room. Are there plans to make them appear through the rest of the surface stages?
- Aromatic Vial Keepsake doesn't upgrade hermes' boons. Not sure if it works on artemis boons.
- Knuckle Bones Keepsake and Hades' Old Grudge boon don't seem to stack. They should.
- Against Hecate, she tends to spend a good 20+ seconds of every fight just standing around being invincible but not actually doing anything. This is pretty annoying when you have the level timer ticking down.
- Is it just me or are the levels shorter (fewer rooms) than they were in hades 1?
- Arachne's Scarlet Dress should be better. Only 10 armor means you basically never take it.
- If you make it to Scylla with an arachne dress intact, when she sings "that little dress looks like it's from the garbage", arachne needs to drop down from the top of the screen and yell "the F**k did you say to me, scylla!?" and then deal 10,000 damage to her.
- Things that were in Hades 1 but aren't added yet: Getting small buffs from minor finds (aka health from darkness, pom slices from nectar, etc) this was pretty necessary as otherwise minor finds mean literally nothing after a point and your room choice has no weight whatsoever. This point comes pretty quickly after you finish upgrading your grasp. I'm sure this will be added soon, though. It would be incredibly strange if this wasn't on the to-do list.
- Also the no-hit challenge rooms and boon selling stands.
- Also the rest of the fear/heat effects like hazard damage and Extreme measures. I'm sure that the "hard mode" bosses will be added eventually, though. At the time being, it's pretty weird that the "enemies do more damage" vow goes from 20% to 60% to 100%, but I imagine that will be adjusted later, among other things.
- Please let Melinoe and Icarus smooch. Pwease.
- Let us bathe with charon and skelly you cowards.
- Let us spend 50 wrappers to make an item that we shoot at Eris' face to take out 20% of her HP at the start of the fight or something.
- Let us befriend one of Polyphemus's sheep. Maybe a ram so it can headbutt metals to collect?
- I'm just rambling at this point. Anyway, there's my bigass feedback post. Thanks for reading.
(EDIT) - And let us pet cerberus again, of course. Though I imagine this will come at the end of a story sequence with hades after you get his keepsake or something.


---POST PATCH UPDATE ----

HEXES -
- Twilight Curse (sheepify) - does get damage buffs on bosses when you take the mini-upgrades to do so. With the lower mana cost this hex is right about where it should be now.
- Lunar Ray - This is now the worst hex in the game. Lower mana cost means nothing when combined with 1/4 lower damage and the same 3 second duration. Now you can die while achieving less MORE OFTEN! This huge nerf is honestly baffling.
- Wolf Howl - Already one of the better Hex's, I could see lowering the mana cost a bit, but cutting it in half was unnecessary. It now completely outclasses total eclipse, since 5 uses of wolf howl does the same damage for the same cost, without needing to wait so long to charge it up, and without risking missing a move with a 4 second delay.

WEAPONS - (note that many changes were made to hammers that were not listed in the patch notes)
- Artemis Daggers - The fix to parry vs dodge was actually NOT done. I played several artemis runs and was still getting parries eaten by dodge.
- Circe Staff - Way better, obviously. But also WAY overtuned. 12 hits is only 4 basic attack strings, it not only gives you mana regen but instantly refills your ENTIRE mp bar 0_o;; , and +120% damage on at least 2 omega moves is pretty nuts. This should be toned down a bit, at the very least the guaranteed infinite MP for zero effort should be removed.
- Momus Staff - Far more unique and interesting than before, but still busted as hell. Triple damage on every single omega move is just absurd. Either make the copy attacks do less damage or make it so you can't copy more than one move at a time.
- Thanatos Axe - More fun than before, being an attack speed based axe is cool. But it still feels a bit weak. Either put the crit back up to 20% OR have the crit apply to everything like normal, not just omega moves.
- Persephone Skull - Feels great. The buff to skull omega attack aoe seems pretty unneeded, though. It was good before but now it's half the screen and still only 10 MP a pop...

The Hearty Appetite boon (demeter/aphrodite duo) does not apply to damage effects from curses/etc, just your basic weapon strikes. This should be fixed.

Also Soot Sprint defenders only like it because they use it as a crutch to avoid learning how to fight Eris, as shown by that being basically the only argument they use to defend it. You can take soot sprint or you can GIT GUD. I said it. Fight me.

(NOTE: More feedback given on post #54 on page 4 of the thread.)

[Robot from the future]

I actually read this entire thing.

I want to bathe with Charon now as well.

[SIEGE CREEP (DEADLOCK)]

Thanks for taking the time to write this

[duy.kh.dang]

Originally posted by Robot from the future:

I actually read this entire thing.

I want to bathe with Charon now as well.

Me too, I read them all :)
The Night arcana wasn't upgraded once by me so it keeps draining mana at 2 for me. 4 is too much. The rest arcanas are maxed.

[Vigilante]

I think the only thing missing is how much you want to pet the dog

[bernds_cb1]

I think if I connect the dots I'm concluding that Engagement Ring is intended for Aspect of Pan. I agree that in other situations I do not want it. If this is really the design then I'm not sure I like the idea of a boon that is either unwanted or almost required depending on aspects.

[Silyon]

The interesting thing about Hera's Cherished Keepsake boon is that it isn't capped at level 3. This means that every keepsake has a hidden 4th level that can only be accessed with this boon, with proper scaling for whatever effect they might have. For some keepsakes, like Knucklebones or Blackened Fleece, this can be VERY strong. For others, like the Echo stone or Glass figurine, it's a do-nothing boon. It all depends on what you're using at the time and how much run you have left when you get it.

[chsr357]

Originally posted by Luminaire7:

There is also the issue that Selene boons do NOT appear in the 4th stage

Haven't read everything yet. I do mostly agree so far, but wanted to say that I did find 2 Selene doors in Tartarus in my last run, so about 10 mins ago. I skipped the 1st Selene door and just went through door IV. Found another Selene door at the end, which led me to receive her boon in Charon's room before Chronos. It may have appeared twice because I skipped the 1st one. I did not have a hex before Tartarus and I don't know whether that affected it's chance to appear.

[s_welsh]

Awesome stuff!
I agree with almost all of this but i didn't see by far the most important change the game needs.
Where my ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Cerberus pets Huh?!

[Sintonir]

Originally posted by chsr357:

Haven't read everything yet. I do mostly agree so far, but wanted to say that I did find 2 Selene doors in Tartarus in my last run, so about 10 mins ago. I skipped the 1st Selene door and just went through door IV. Found another Selene door at the end, which led me to receive her boon in Charon's room before Chronos. It may have appeared twice because I skipped the 1st one. I did not have a hex before Tartarus and I don't know whether that affected it's chance to appear.

I think there is a limited number of Hex/Path of Stars rewards, you can get at most 1(so hex only) in Erebus, at most 2 by the end of Oceanus, and at most 3 at all (not counting mini-paths with only 1 point in Fields of Mourning).

Also, a couple of ideas about Zeus:
- first, make his Gain also reduce the amount of primed magick. Simple as that. It reduces your max magick by 70%, let's say it would also reduce primed amount by 50% or 60%.
- second, for Spirit Surge make it damage more often with each hit doing less damage. OP suggests 80 damage each 3 seconds, so make it 25 damage each second.

And a question about Spiteful Strength: does it count Heph's boons on cooldown as "no boons"? If not, it should. If does, then everything is OK with this duo.

[Tomcio P]

Originally posted by s_welsh:

Awesome stuff!
I agree with almost all of this but i didn't see by far the most important change the game needs.
Where my ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Cerberus pets Huh?!

There's no way taht she doesn't get to have pets... eventually, right!? But we've gotta earn it.

[Tomcio P]

Originally posted by Bishop:

Originally posted by s_welsh:

Awesome stuff!
I agree with almost all of this but i didn't see by far the most important change the game needs.
Where my ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Cerberus pets Huh?!

There's no way taht she doesn't get to have pets... eventually, right!? But we've gotta earn it.

And by "pets" I mean pets of Cerberus, by her.

[The Sojourner]

I made a few similar threads in the Suggestions and Feedback forum, and can more or less corroborate what the OP says. Thank you for all this!

[Dr.Monarch]

Most of the things I agree with besides your points on:

Night Bloom - The necromancer Hex is one of the best hexes in the game at the moment, especially at 20ish heat, because you can already choose what to raise by using mana to charge your hex, then killing the first enemy in an encounter or just cycle. It also counts as an enemy so the raised enemy has the buffs from any pacts you have in your run.

Hestia's soot sprint is one of the best defensive dashes since it simply deletes projectiles if you sprint into them. It could be 0 scorch and I would take it over most of the other dashes in the game or even Hades 1