DEVS - NPC have WALL HACKS PLS FIX!

[Nooblets]

Sorry but the Wall Hacks for the AI NPCs need to be fixed.
They are just shooting blind through solid walls and hitting us.

We are walking slowly so no noise... YET... The enemy can shoot BLIND through TWO rooms away into a 3rd room, through a door, then through a wall into the next room and shoot my friend standing behind a post with only a part of his body.

There is no way is hell any npc would have seen us.
I went after him and he was shooting me behind a corner wall, through a door, so it didn't even give me chance to see or get near him.

Please fix ty

[BlakespinnerFX]

First of all, I can't help but feel like that is a slight exaggeration, as bullets can only penetrate one sometimes two walls.

Secondly, are you sure you were absolutely quite? No shouting and walking slowly. What about windows? Or doors that were open that they saw you through?

I've played every level in a very tactical and slow paced way, taking almost an hour on some maps, and I've never been shot through a wall. Except for one time I was shot through one door because I kicked it, not realising someone was on the other side. But even that wasn't a direct shot, it was random blind fire through the door and one bullet managed to hit my leg.

[sigina ✝]

OP is right.

[Foster]

Originally posted by BlakespinnerFX:

First of all, I can't help but feel like that is a slight exaggeration, as bullets can only penetrate one sometimes two walls.

Secondly, are you sure you were absolutely quite? No shouting and walking slowly. What about windows? Or doors that were open that they saw you through?

I've played every level in a very tactical and slow paced way, taking almost an hour on some maps, and I've never been shot through a wall. Except for one time I was shot through one door because I kicked it, not realising someone was on the other side. But even that wasn't a direct shot, it was random blind fire through the door and one bullet managed to hit my leg.

I think this is an irrelevant point to make, because in real life random people are not good enough shots (and typically aren't tactically minded enough, or even knowledgeable enough) to nail you through a wall based off of sound and nothing but sound they can barely hear through several rooms and in many of the cases of this map, thick walls that would cut out most sound besides gunshots (and even then utterly decimate any readability of positioning based upon those gunshots' origins.)
To my knowledge there are no highly trained soldiers among the criminal ranks except perhaps the militia on the compound, and even then they're likely only army-tier.

Far and away the most common way for a SWAT officer to get taken out in real life is not by way of someone shooting through walls at them because they heard them and somehow pinpointed exactly where they were by magic, but by entering a room for the first time and going through the "fatal funnel" and getting taken out by a bad guy hiding around a corner or under a bed or in a closet or in some way hiding before dropping a kill angle on them and unloading into them.
I can't even think of any incidents documented where a random criminal was able to hone in on footsteps from even just outside of the room they're in and they just immediately score even a single killing blow against any member of a SWAT team, it's even rare in an active warzone to my knowledge, although I'm almost certain it's happened many times in both cases because it's not outright impossible but it isn't very probable.

All this overly loquacious rambling aside, my main counterpoint to you here is that this is a consistent problem with this game, you can't move with ANY urgency or shout for someone to get down without risking getting hosed down through several rooms' worth of walls (and yes, that does in fact happen in the game, there's video evidence of it left right and center that's relatively easy to find from people complaining about it) with pin point accuracy and no real way to counteract it.
You act like it's a realistic and tactical way that the game functions intentionally even though the devs have claimed to have fixed this exact issue with almost every update made that has touched the AI and even several which haven't, and while also disregarding that in real life a lot of what SWAT does is actually very fast paced blitz-style strategy operating on shock and awe to push into a room and disable or destroy any opposition that may pose a threat to them before said opposition has any chance of setting up a heavy defense or responding in time.
There are many situations where they must move surreptitiously and pie doors and enter as cautiously and quietly as they can, but most situations they end up getting called out to are active shooter scenarios or scenarios where there are otherwise armed and dangerous individuals already active on a scene that already know that armed authorities are on their way and want to cause some kind of harm very rapidly before they get dealt with.
A huge number of the scenarios that the player deals with are these fast paced scenarios that require immediate and decisive action in as small a timeframe as possible rather than situations that require delicacy and tact, so I find it a very bizarre defense to claim that "you have to use tactics" in a game where almost every situation is one where the realistically best tactic is to be as aggressive as possible and minimize the time the baddies have for setting up ambushes for you.

Moreover, why do the AI insist on immediately gunning for you both literally and metaphorically (as in rushing towards you headlong) when they hear you enter with force? Shouldn't the AI be rolling to weigh their options and utilizing things like hiding spots more often than suicidal charges that only work regularly because they sometimes just survive getting shot 30 times in the heart by 7.62?
Where's the morale system everyone was told was in the game that caused them to make worse and worse decisions or give up or even in some drastic situations commit suicide?
All I see are an enemy force made 100% up of brainwashed death cultists hopped up on drugs who believe they have to run straight through assault rifle fire to kill at least one cop to go to their equivalent of paradise in the afterlife and thus have the conviction and lack of pain to see it through, even when it's just idiot 20-somethings with zero training who robbed a gas station with too much force and killed some civilians and are now wracked with anxiety and tension to hell and back because the SWAT have shown up.

And if you want to go into the argumentation of it being a game, then I just have to posit the counterpoint that it's not fun to get shot through walls since there's no true counterplay to that besides making the game simply not fun to play at all because you're spending most of it doing literally nothing and hoping that the AI's sonar doesn't detect the sound of you reloading from across the entire hotel and cause them to immediately sprint at mach 10 towards your position firing at you through all the walls.
I would much rather die because I made ACTUAL strategic and tactical errors, such as not properly clearing a room in its entirety and forgetting a single closet or something and getting brained for that instead of dying instantly because I let go of shift by accident for half a second or I peeked around a corner and got 360 noscoped by a meth dealer with inhuman reflexes and accuracy despite the fact he wasn't even looking in my direction yet and had no idea I was there.

It's also worth noting I say all this as someone willing to spend over an hour on maps as well, I have no problem with playing slowly and methodically, I just think it's dumb that this is the ONLY way you can play the game and you can only even just barely manage it with this playstyle unless you play with a full player team all the time.

[TopPerson]

The most annoying thing in this game possibly.

[BlakespinnerFX]

Originally posted by Foster:

Originally posted by BlakespinnerFX:

First of all, I can't help but feel like that is a slight exaggeration, as bullets can only penetrate one sometimes two walls.

Secondly, are you sure you were absolutely quite? No shouting and walking slowly. What about windows? Or doors that were open that they saw you through?

I've played every level in a very tactical and slow paced way, taking almost an hour on some maps, and I've never been shot through a wall. Except for one time I was shot through one door because I kicked it, not realising someone was on the other side. But even that wasn't a direct shot, it was random blind fire through the door and one bullet managed to hit my leg.

I think this is an irrelevant point to make, because in real life random people are not good enough shots (and typically aren't tactically minded enough, or even knowledgeable enough) to nail you through a wall based off of sound and nothing but sound they can barely hear through several rooms and in many of the cases of this map, thick walls that would cut out most sound besides gunshots (and even then utterly decimate any readability of positioning based upon those gunshots' origins.)
To my knowledge there are no highly trained soldiers among the criminal ranks except perhaps the militia on the compound, and even then they're likely only army-tier.

Far and away the most common way for a SWAT officer to get taken out in real life is not by way of someone shooting through walls at them because they heard them and somehow pinpointed exactly where they were by magic, but by entering a room for the first time and going through the "fatal funnel" and getting taken out by a bad guy hiding around a corner or under a bed or in a closet or in some way hiding before dropping a kill angle on them and unloading into them.
I can't even think of any incidents documented where a random criminal was able to hone in on footsteps from even just outside of the room they're in and they just immediately score even a single killing blow against any member of a SWAT team, it's even rare in an active warzone to my knowledge, although I'm almost certain it's happened many times in both cases because it's not outright impossible but it isn't very probable.

All this overly loquacious rambling aside, my main counterpoint to you here is that this is a consistent problem with this game, you can't move with ANY urgency or shout for someone to get down without risking getting hosed down through several rooms' worth of walls (and yes, that does in fact happen in the game, there's video evidence of it left right and center that's relatively easy to find from people complaining about it) with pin point accuracy and no real way to counteract it.
You act like it's a realistic and tactical way that the game functions intentionally even though the devs have claimed to have fixed this exact issue with almost every update made that has touched the AI and even several which haven't, and while also disregarding that in real life a lot of what SWAT does is actually very fast paced blitz-style strategy operating on shock and awe to push into a room and disable or destroy any opposition that may pose a threat to them before said opposition has any chance of setting up a heavy defense or responding in time.
There are many situations where they must move surreptitiously and pie doors and enter as cautiously and quietly as they can, but most situations they end up getting called out to are active shooter scenarios or scenarios where there are otherwise armed and dangerous individuals already active on a scene that already know that armed authorities are on their way and want to cause some kind of harm very rapidly before they get dealt with.
A huge number of the scenarios that the player deals with are these fast paced scenarios that require immediate and decisive action in as small a timeframe as possible rather than situations that require delicacy and tact, so I find it a very bizarre defense to claim that "you have to use tactics" in a game where almost every situation is one where the realistically best tactic is to be as aggressive as possible and minimize the time the baddies have for setting up ambushes for you.

Moreover, why do the AI insist on immediately gunning for you both literally and metaphorically (as in rushing towards you headlong) when they hear you enter with force? Shouldn't the AI be rolling to weigh their options and utilizing things like hiding spots more often than suicidal charges that only work regularly because they sometimes just survive getting shot 30 times in the heart by 7.62?
Where's the morale system everyone was told was in the game that caused them to make worse and worse decisions or give up or even in some drastic situations commit suicide?
All I see are an enemy force made 100% up of brainwashed death cultists hopped up on drugs who believe they have to run straight through assault rifle fire to kill at least one cop to go to their equivalent of paradise in the afterlife and thus have the conviction and lack of pain to see it through, even when it's just idiot 20-somethings with zero training who robbed a gas station with too much force and killed some civilians and are now wracked with anxiety and tension to hell and back because the SWAT have shown up.

And if you want to go into the argumentation of it being a game, then I just have to posit the counterpoint that it's not fun to get shot through walls since there's no true counterplay to that besides making the game simply not fun to play at all because you're spending most of it doing literally nothing and hoping that the AI's sonar doesn't detect the sound of you reloading from across the entire hotel and cause them to immediately sprint at mach 10 towards your position firing at you through all the walls.
I would much rather die because I made ACTUAL strategic and tactical errors, such as not properly clearing a room in its entirety and forgetting a single closet or something and getting brained for that instead of dying instantly because I let go of shift by accident for half a second or I peeked around a corner and got 360 noscoped by a meth dealer with inhuman reflexes and accuracy despite the fact he wasn't even looking in my direction yet and had no idea I was there.

It's also worth noting I say all this as someone willing to spend over an hour on maps as well, I have no problem with playing slowly and methodically, I just think it's dumb that this is the ONLY way you can play the game and you can only even just barely manage it with this playstyle unless you play with a full player team all the time.

Oh I'm not denying the ai doesn't have it's flaws, I've had plenty of glitches with it. Some major, some minor.

All I'm saying is that despite hearing and seeing all the evidence about the wallbanging, I've yet to actually have it happen to me. And that's even with me not using shift to walk slow.

Not saying it doesn't happen, as I know it can be different for everyone, I just swear I'm the only person in the world who doesn't have that problem.

As for the other things about the reflexes and not wanting to surrender, I definitely agree with both of those, but it does happen, just very occasionally.

I was playing gas station earlier, and after kicking a door down and aiming my weapon at a suspect he immediately surrendered, without even having to shout. But then there are other times where I can fill his chest with lead and they will just keep shooting until they die.

The things the devs say are in the game are in the game, but the chances of them happening need to be increased. I have had a suspect shoot themself when backed into a corner, but that's only happened once in my 50 something hours of playtime.

[Nooblets]

Originally posted by BlakespinnerFX:

First of all, I can't help but feel like that is a slight exaggeration, as bullets can only penetrate one sometimes two walls.

Secondly, are you sure you were absolutely quite? No shouting and walking slowly. What about windows? Or doors that were open that they saw you through?

I've played every level in a very tactical and slow paced way, taking almost an hour on some maps, and I've never been shot through a wall. Except for one time I was shot through one door because I kicked it, not realising someone was on the other side. But even that wasn't a direct shot, it was random blind fire through the door and one bullet managed to hit my leg.

It was the night club, and you can feel what you want, it doesn't change what happened

[BlakespinnerFX]

Originally posted by Nooblets:

Originally posted by BlakespinnerFX:

First of all, I can't help but feel like that is a slight exaggeration, as bullets can only penetrate one sometimes two walls.

Secondly, are you sure you were absolutely quite? No shouting and walking slowly. What about windows? Or doors that were open that they saw you through?

I've played every level in a very tactical and slow paced way, taking almost an hour on some maps, and I've never been shot through a wall. Except for one time I was shot through one door because I kicked it, not realising someone was on the other side. But even that wasn't a direct shot, it was random blind fire through the door and one bullet managed to hit my leg.

It was the night club, and you can feel what you want, it doesn't change what happened

Read my previous comments.

I'm not denying that it happened, I'm just saying how it's not a universal thing as not everyone has it.

Not that it means it's a player problem, but there is something that is clearly different between different people's gameplay.

I know that it does happen, as I've seen videos of it.

[Zebra_204]

Tried playing with a friend and we were getting frustrated by this. Seems to be worse in some maps over others but it can get pretty ridiculous.

[BlakespinnerFX]

Originally posted by Zebra_204:

Tried playing with a friend and we were getting frustrated by this. Seems to be worse in some maps over others but it can get pretty ridiculous.

This is what I'm saying.

I don't think it's a problem with the AI, but rather a problem with some of the maps.

Maybe something like some walls not blocking the AI's vision correctly. Or some walls not blocking the sound of your footsteps.

[Phoneend]

let me bet your running around cod style with flashlights on ? you they can hear and see your lazers/flashlights,

[Nooblets]

Originally posted by Phoneend:

let me bet your running around cod style with flashlights on ? you they can hear and see your lazers/flashlights,

Try reading before you comment, you then might not look stupid.

[BlakespinnerFX]

Originally posted by Nooblets:

Originally posted by Phoneend:

let me bet your running around cod style with flashlights on ? you they can hear and see your lazers/flashlights,

Try reading before you comment, you then might not look stupid.

You never said whether or not you used a flashlight. So it's not an unreasonable thing for someone to ask.

[Nooblets]

Originally posted by BlakespinnerFX:

Originally posted by Nooblets:

Try reading before you comment, you then might not look stupid.

You never said whether or not you used a flashlight. So it's not an unreasonable thing for someone to ask.

Yer dont say anything about the running around part and hope noone would notice

[BlakespinnerFX]

Originally posted by Nooblets:

Originally posted by BlakespinnerFX:

You never said whether or not you used a flashlight. So it's not an unreasonable thing for someone to ask.

Yer dont say anything about the running around part and hope noone would notice

Well you never answered whether or not you used a flashlight and hoped no one would notice.

[Phoneend]

Originally posted by Nooblets:

Originally posted by Phoneend:

let me bet your running around cod style with flashlights on ? you they can hear and see your lazers/flashlights,

Try reading before you comment, you then might not look stupid.

I did read, you said "We are walking slowly so no noise... YET... The enemy can shoot BLIND through TWO rooms away into a 3rd room, through a door, then through a wall into the next room and shoot my friend standing behind a post with only a part of his body"

with my exp in this game this only happens when running around or using flashlights and they saw you and had open shoots. I ever been shot thou walls useless i had tons of noise they blinded and got luckily, I been snapshoted yes, But i seen counts cod players go running thou and get killed same way you did. Maybe next time be truthful