SMG's useless

[Arby]

Ditto. The game seems to be balanced around ar's and magnums.

[Barking Sands]

I don't mind the MP5 and MPX that much but they need more magazines because they require a lot of ammo for each target, and they also have the disadvantage of putting civilians at higher risk the same as shotguns.

The UMP is a feather duster. I think it has about the same damage per shot as the other SMGs (less than any pistol), but its rate of fire is so slow that it has the lowest DPS in the game.

[shadowsc133]

And they already nerfed the P90 before it even released lol

[Arby]

It's really dumb. I get that body armor is a thing now, but I still don't think the average gang banger is going to take 10 mp5 9mm shots to the chest. Especially since the velocity on those should be way better than a pistol.

Also, why do we even have the ump 45? its not very popular with police, its cousin the ump 9 is more popular thanks to just being a really cheap 9mm smg

[Rigly]

Not if you're f0rest and headshot everyone :)

[The Mountain Jew]

UMP45 is the weapon of chads what are you smoking.

[CantStopTheComf]

I really like the MP5. Compact, reliable, basically no recoil.

[Fish]

I don't agree with SMG being useless.

They often require more shots to drop a suspect sure, but they are so much more controllable and typically have a shorter barrel length (so less compression issues with pressing against walls)

[Foster]

The HK416 and M4A1 are the two best lethals in the game. Single fire on those beats out full auto fire on any of the SMGs in terms of damage per second and damage per shot and they have similarly short barrels keeping them from having to be raised so close to walls (realistically you're not going to need to be able to have your body right up against a wall while firing, in fact you shouldn't be that close to a wall you're using for concealment anyways.)
Unlike the SMGs they're also capable of actually penetrating many materials, instead of getting stopped very short or not even being able to go through drywall in a meth den.
There's quite literally no reason to use SMGs or any of the other ARs except the pepperball guns.

Beanbag shotgun's the best non-lethal because one shot can wreck the morale of a suspect and knock the gun out of their hands while also incapacitating them for quite a long time so you can shoot other suspects, and you have tons of ammo.
Does require really well placed shots and a better understanding of the quite crap "height above bore" system, but once you figure the crap out you can nail fleeing suspects in the head from distance to no penalty cost.

[CasinoBandit]

Arby eredeti hozzászólása:

It's really dumb. I get that body armor is a thing now, but I still don't think the average gang banger is going to take 10 mp5 9mm shots to the chest. Especially since the velocity on those should be way better than a pistol.

Also, why do we even have the ump 45? its not very popular with police, its cousin the ump 9 is more popular thanks to just being a really cheap 9mm smg

UMP is chambered in 45. Not 9mm.

[Barking Sands]

sawk my ding dong eredeti hozzászólása:

Arby eredeti hozzászólása:

Also, why do we even have the ump 45? its not very popular with police, its cousin the ump 9 is more popular thanks to just being a really cheap 9mm smg

UMP is chambered in 45. Not 9mm.

I think "ump 9" was a typo and meant to say HK MP9, which is fairly popular these days.

//EDIT: UMP 9 wasn't a typo.[gunmagwarehouse.com]

TL;DR: HK UMP 9 (9x19 parabellum) is lighter than the MP5 with a lower rate of fire, but more recoil. It's considered a middle-child between the MP5 and the MP7.

[Arby]

sawk my ding dong eredeti hozzászólása:

Arby eredeti hozzászólása:

It's really dumb. I get that body armor is a thing now, but I still don't think the average gang banger is going to take 10 mp5 9mm shots to the chest. Especially since the velocity on those should be way better than a pistol.

Also, why do we even have the ump 45? its not very popular with police, its cousin the ump 9 is more popular thanks to just being a really cheap 9mm smg

UMP is chambered in 45. Not 9mm.

no, UMP 9 is the more popular sibling of the UMP 45. 45 just gets all the press, and an astounding overrepresentation in video games, because its a 45 acp smg instead of the usual 9mm.

In reality, the ump 9 sold better because police prefer the 9mm to 45 when theyre shopping for SMG's. But as a UMP 9 is basically just an alternative option to the mp5, most games instead show off the ump 45.

Even then, the UMP in .40 S&W beat both in police sales. It's even more common than the UMP 9 for police, especially in the US.

[Arby]

Cursed Hawkins eredeti hozzászólása:

Has OP seen how fast suspects can drop you with Uzis?

NPC's have different health and other values to players, the way their guns affect you is entirely different than how you affect them.

[CasinoBandit]

Arby eredeti hozzászólása:

sawk my ding dong eredeti hozzászólása:

UMP is chambered in 45. Not 9mm.

no, UMP 9 is the more popular sibling of the UMP 45. 45 just gets all the press, and an astounding overrepresentation in video games, because its a 45 acp smg instead of the usual 9mm.

In reality, the ump 9 sold better because police prefer the 9mm to 45 when theyre shopping for SMG's. But as a UMP 9 is basically just an alternative option to the mp5, most games instead show off the ump 45.

Even then, the UMP in .40 S&W beat both in police sales. It's even more common than the UMP 9 for police, especially in the US.

right, but I am pretty sure the game uses the UMP-45. Either way, it if is technically doing less damage than a 9mm counterpart, that just isn't right. However, a slower firing rate makes sense.

[Andy Mil]

Well
ya can shot suspect hand for them to drop gun now and I think ya gun can stagger them OR is it?? that might be for 7.62 caliber soo I hope they balance dis with how much mag we can bring and SMG gotto bring 2 more mag than assault rifle or watever they gonna do to balance

[Barking Sands]

sawk my ding dong eredeti hozzászólása:

if it (UMP45) is technically doing less damage than a 9mm counterpart, that just isn't right. However, a slower firing rate makes sense.

I said it did less damage than any pistol (and has the lowest DPS of any lethal in the game by a very noticeable degree), but I think it does more damage per shot than its SMG counterparts.

Not to lecture, but higher calibers IRL tend to noticeably increase damage at range or increase the maximum effective range as long as it can land shots consistently (greater or equal to 25 meters from target). There's no noticeable difference when room clearing, and it's all about speed from ready to firing and rate of fire when it comes to being an effective CQB firearm. The UMP 45 isn't even designed to chamber a .45 +P load as far as I know, and the UMP .40 or 9mm would be equal or better options in a CQB environment.

As far as suggestions for the devs, I think the UMP could benefit from a buff with regards to its stun effect. If all it does better than its counterparts is cause the target to get into a stun lock, it's increased ammo efficiency would make it a choice worth considering (honestly, I use it frequently already but only because it's very challenging in its current state and I like style points and bragging rights ... also I get completely pwn'd every time I do).