dreadquake mortars needs a nerf

[LUCKY !! ソラ！]

Sacrifice nearly half of my army just to get into melee range is ridiculous.
One shot from the mortars just wipe one whole unit in an instant. And I was spacing them out correctly, rushing towards enemy lines.

[The Ohio Question]

Originally posted by Man of Culture:

Originally posted by The Ohio Question:

If you think this is bulling, you had a good childhood my friend, believe me on that if nothing else.

Im not trying to say you have no clue, but if you are in a situation where dealing with a very easy problem to deal with is tedious and "overtuned" to you, then maybe you need to experiment with different strategies? Frankly, this game isnt hard in any situation past turn like 30. If you dont lose in the opening establishment phase, your never going to.

" Is it the part where I said it's easy to counter if you specifically build an army or have specific units to deal with it?" but thats the thing, its really not that specific to counter dreadquakes, or any arty for that matter.

Flying units, single entity monsters, most heros/casters, cav will all do it consistently with even BASIC positioning and counterplay.

The only army builds that are going to suffer from quakes are mono blob infantry armies, something you will only have at the start of the camp (when the enemy isnt even fielding dreadquakes).

So assuming you are not building your stacks poorly, which i am assuming you are not doing because you say you are not, what is the problem? The only rosters, and i mean only one that should realistically actually suffer from quakes later on is the vampire counts or Nurgle, and even then they have the tools to take care of it fairly well.

Ok so what you're saying is you're completely agreeing with me on all points. Good to know thank you.

Not even slightly, or remotely, and you know that.

Dont cry people are "bullying" you and then act like a petulant child.

[The Ohio Question]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by The Ohio Question:

Dreadquakes, meanwhile, cost exuberantly more to field and protect. Individually overall, yeah they can prob on average out damage my jade sky junk dunk stacks.

But i can pump them out en mass for the cost of your one good army lol. Not to mention the infrastructure problems Chorfs have.

When you factor in the higher gold cost, the raw production, lead time changes, slaves, armaments to up the unit cap to just make ONE dreadquake, vs china mass pumping out cheap jade stacks with the occasional balloons? No contest, the dark lands are gonna be Tibetened annexed into greater Cathay in no time.

Yes, I understand Dreadquakes are considerably more expensive than alternative artillery options. And thus, when costs are factored, they might not be that OP. However, that is a consideration if the player is using them. But the AI can in large part ignore economic limitations. (Do Chaos Dwarf army caps even apply to the AI?) Hence, it is still un-balanced. The AI's tendency to ignore economic constraints - especially at the higher levels - is why we should have units that are balanced in terms of absolute power, not just power relative to cost.

Im struggling to think if iv ever even seen the ai use any tbh. Im sure they would, but usually the chorfs are genocided well before they ever get that far between imrik, kadrin, skarsnikt, cathay, and grimgor, not to mention the recent addition of the doom map blob that is Tamurkhan. (the dude just EATS half the map every single time i play atm)

They still take a long time to wind up even with the ai cheats, and they are essentially in a bowl surrounded by threats, all of whom scale faster.

And even if they do get them, they are fairly east to deal with.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by The Ohio Question:

Im struggling to think if iv ever even seen the ai use any tbh. Im sure they would, but usually the chorfs are genocided well before they ever get that far between imrik, kadrin, skarsnikt, cathay, and grimgor, not to mention the recent addition of the doom map blob that is Tamurkhan. (the dude just EATS half the map every single time i play atm)

They still take a long time to wind up even with the ai cheats, and they are essentially in a bowl surrounded by threats, all of whom scale faster.

And even if they do get them, they are fairly east to deal with.

I've actually seen them quite a bit - probably because I fight Chaos Dwarves a lot due to playing Thorgrim a lot.

But AI is indeed less effective with Chaos Dwarves for some reason, and they rarely seem to snowball as threats to the extent that their neighbors such as Grimgor or Tamurkhan can be. But imagine if they did? ;(

[The Ohio Question]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by The Ohio Question:

Im struggling to think if iv ever even seen the ai use any tbh. Im sure they would, but usually the chorfs are genocided well before they ever get that far between imrik, kadrin, skarsnikt, cathay, and grimgor, not to mention the recent addition of the doom map blob that is Tamurkhan. (the dude just EATS half the map every single time i play atm)

They still take a long time to wind up even with the ai cheats, and they are essentially in a bowl surrounded by threats, all of whom scale faster.

And even if they do get them, they are fairly east to deal with.

I've actually seen them quite a bit - probably because I fight Chaos Dwarves a lot due to playing Thorgrim a lot.

But AI is indeed less effective with Chaos Dwarves for some reason, and they rarely seem to snowball as threats to the extent that their neighbors such as Grimgor or Tamurkhan can be. But imagine if they did? ;(

Eh, they would play allot like normal dwarfs then, who very much DO snowball allot right now.

Stack armor pen if you can, focus the arty down, interrupt their gun lines, win. Applies to both flavors of shorties.

The true horror is when ikkit snowballs.... friggin nukes every fight.... *shudders*

[TcT Goth98]

I've only really seen CD early game with mostly slave armies. They tend to get wiped out a lot early game. Except the CD capital, which just sits there doing nothing.

[The Ohio Question]

Originally posted by TcT Goth98:

I've only really seen CD early game with mostly slave armies. They tend to get wiped out a lot early game. Except the CD capital, which just sits there doing nothing.

The neutral unplayable one that you have to confederate? it starts the game maxed out on defenses so other ai tend to not attack it.

But its programmed to not attack or expand, so yeah it just sits there.

[TcT Goth98]

Originally posted by The Ohio Question:

Originally posted by TcT Goth98:

I've only really seen CD early game with mostly slave armies. They tend to get wiped out a lot early game. Except the CD capital, which just sits there doing nothing.

The neutral unplayable one that you have to confederate? it starts the game maxed out on defenses so other ai tend to not attack it.

But its programmed to not attack or expand, so yeah it just sits there.

Yup. Everytime I get to the darklands it's all GS and HE and the CD Capital just sitting there. The AI can not handle the CD mechanics. So they just die right away.

[Man of Culture]

Originally posted by The Ohio Question:

Originally posted by Man of Culture:

Ok so what you're saying is you're completely agreeing with me on all points. Good to know thank you.

Not even slightly, or remotely, and you know that.

Dont cry people are "bullying" you and then act like a petulant child.

What you're doing is. And it's derailing the conversation. Also you agreed with me. Literally. On. Everything.

[Justaprank]

dreadquake batteries have limited ammo, and don't differentiate between skirmishers and regular units, so just use a unit of skirmishers to soak the damage from the mortars, and then advance, rather than face-tanking all the damage. If you have to rush immediately for whatever reason, and you can't build an army that's suited to fighting chaos dwarves, then put your units into the longest formation possible until just before you get into combat (minimizing the damage of any individual explosion). You might as well be object that you can't use your anti-infantry units when fighting against the ogres, or raging that your artillery is always getting ganked by skaven summons. At a certain point it's just a skill issue.

[Isaac]

Originally posted by The Ohio Question:

Originally posted by Isaac:

Didn't knew Napoleon was in warhammer. Thanks for the info.

sigh, you know what the point is, cannons arbitrarily being made to not be great against infantry is a game decision, and a really dumb one at that.

Its a cannon, it shoots cannon balls, in the lore of warhammer, that kills infantry quite well. In real life it kills people quite well, in the REST OF THE TOTAL WAR SERIES, it kills quite well.

It makes no sense to make them a only anti large weapon.

well, it DOES kill infantry quiet well. it just doesn't hit as many units as other artillery.

[tvih]

Originally posted by The Ohio Question:

*glances at what the greenskins actually had*
Oh look, its almost all infantry, the only thing Dreads are amazing against.

This may come as a shock to you, but not every army can field non-infantry armies, or do so affordably/reasonably (like without sucking against everything else). If a single unit type (never mind a single unit of that type) forces you to change your entire army composition to counter it, guess what? That's pretty much the definition of 'overpowered' right there in the context of a game like this.

And that's not even considering that most battles are against AI, who definitely can't just go around making purpose-built anti-Dreadquake stacks.

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by tvih:

Originally posted by The Ohio Question:

*glances at what the greenskins actually had*
Oh look, its almost all infantry, the only thing Dreads are amazing against.

This may come as a shock to you, but not every army can field non-infantry armies, or do so affordably/reasonably (like without sucking against everything else). If a single unit type (never mind a single unit of that type) forces you to change your entire army composition to counter it, guess what? That's pretty much the definition of 'overpowered' right there in the context of a game like this.

And that's not even considering that most battles are against AI, who definitely can't just go around making purpose-built anti-Dreadquake stacks.

All factions can field non infantry armies.
Affordable is rather subjective, i'd claim all factions can do infantry stacks that are more expensive than the cheapest pure non inf stack.
If they are effective is another matter.

A DQ doesn't forces you to replace your entire army, it rather forces you to include at least some units filling a specific niche.

[Man of Culture]

Originally posted by The Ohio Question:

Originally posted by tvih:

This may come as a shock to you, but not every army can field non-infantry armies, or do so affordably/reasonably (like without sucking against everything else). If a single unit type (never mind a single unit of that type) forces you to change your entire army composition to counter it, guess what? That's pretty much the definition of 'overpowered' right there in the context of a game like this.

And that's not even considering that most battles are against AI, who definitely can't just go around making purpose-built anti-Dreadquake stacks.

If you are running pure infantry in warhammer 3, you are bad. Thats not dreadquakes or any other good arty being "broken", its you, the player, having a massive skill issue.

Even if dreadquakes got removed tomorrow, it would be incredibly dumb to run pure infantry. Most magic schools have spells that punish infantry hard, quite a few other arties punish infantry hard, a whoooole lotta monster units punish infantry hard.

And quite literally every faction in the game has non infantry based options.

Ok so make me a dark elf army in both mid and late game that you'd recommend to make fighting this easier.

[The Ohio Question]

Originally posted by Man of Culture:

Originally posted by The Ohio Question:

If you are running pure infantry in warhammer 3, you are bad. Thats not dreadquakes or any other good arty being "broken", its you, the player, having a massive skill issue.

Even if dreadquakes got removed tomorrow, it would be incredibly dumb to run pure infantry. Most magic schools have spells that punish infantry hard, quite a few other arties punish infantry hard, a whoooole lotta monster units punish infantry hard.

And quite literally every faction in the game has non infantry based options.

Ok so make me a dark elf army in both mid and late game that you'd recommend to make fighting this easier.

Dark elfs? seriously? one of the best counters to chorfs?

We serious right now?

By mid to late game your lord has good mount options to snipe a dread alone, you should be running a hydra/dragon in pretty much every stack, and their doomfires are so fast it makes runnning round the flank to snipe arty trivial.

Even if you derp engage with a basic hammer anvil, Delvs are gonna clown chorfs lol. You have the single highest armor piercing roster in the game.

Do the lightest baiting to have the ai attack you, spread your infantry line out at the start so the few shots the dread gets out only messes up a unit or 2, and kill it.

Assuming chorfs are even alive by the time a dark elf faction gets to them, which is highly unlikely.

[Man of Culture]

I can't imagine you have many friends with how you treat people. I don't know why you gotta be so negative. I know your type. You're just loud and know-it-ally. And I get it, you won't backtrack and apologize for being rude so I won't bother asking.

So yeah, my answer to it was to make that exact army.

1 Death Magic Lord on Dragon
2 heroes
6 Black Guard
6 Shades
2 Doomfire
2 Dragons
1 Hydra

This was also the army that took the shots. Before I added the dragons and hydra I had Dread Knights.

And yes. That's how I beat it without taking many casualties. I took my time, sniped it with my lord on her dragon while baiting shots with the doomfire warlocks and using their single target leech spell to help do damage.

That is also the BEST way to do it without really needing you to micro everything in your army.

So again. Just like the other guy. You agreed with everything I said. You even picked out the same army I did to combat it. So please. My brother in christ. Stop being so *hitty at other people. It's a game. The way you talk it's like gaming is your life.