Imrik Overwhelmed!

[8-The-General-8]

So, about a week ago I gave Warhammer 3 a try again and decided to play one of my favourite campaigns using good ole Imrik.

I decided to put difficulty on easy (Normal Battle difficulty of course...) and just enjoy the game, doing tasks in the background where required and without getting too competitive with it nor possibly quit prematruely due to bs AI actions.

Lo and behold, Imrik gets surrounded by SKaven, completely outnumbered on the battlefield early game (Within 6 turns I think) and thankfully the Chaos Dwarfs got bored and wandered off earlier.

I tried twice and same outcome. Recruiting like crazy armoured archers etc and whatever else I could get at that point so early in campaign including finishing a Dragon encounter.

What's the justification in 3k or so Skevn so early on in battle? Does Easy setting in Campaign have a bug or something?

Thanks!

[SomeGuy1]

the justification is that the skaven bring a lot of troops to battle (especially their melee infantry) but the units themselves are really, really weak. Rangers(if you ahve access to them) will carve through that 3000 rats like a hot knife through butter. Imrik himself and your starting Dragon Princes will also kill most of them... pretty much by themselves. Target the stuff that matters first, and then the chaff can't actually hurt you while you slaughter it. Early game Skaven melee units' only strong point is "taking a long time to die". Mass archers is actually kinda rough against them, because they have so many hit points to cut through that you can run out of ammunition on them (and they can swarm you to prevent them from shooting). But they die to melee damage dealer units.
You still take some archers to focus down the stuff that can actually hurt you, but not a ton of them.

[gachi is manly]

Is he still in the same spot as in Warhammer 2? I remember the deathmaster was a big issue for him early on in WH2's combined campaign. Playing on legendary difficulty, you pretty much had to go wipe him out ASAP or he'd just bury you in cheap armies.

There was a pretty tried and true method to beating him early, though. He'd start at war with the greenskins beside him, and you could go slap him while he was injured from taking on one of their settlements. Then it was just about going and taking his provinces before he could properly recover.

Don't know if that still stands in WH3, but the fact you say he's getting overwhelmed by rats again makes me think it's likely the same situation.

[8-The-General-8]

Yeah, right on what I was experiencing. I initially had one Ranger unit then the second attempt I had two. The other rank and file just get overwhelmed so badly. Imrik, being pretty tough or well used to be, seemed to get owned pretty quick to my surprise. There were so many models I wasn't sure if a bug or not.

Will try with 4 Ranger units this time. Thanks very much@Someguy1

[8-The-General-8]

Originally posted by gachi is manly:

Is he still in the same spot as in Warhammer 2? I remember the deathmaster was a big issue for him early on in WH2's combined campaign. Playing on legendary difficulty, you pretty much had to go wipe him out ASAP or he'd just bury you in cheap armies.

There was a pretty tried and true method to beating him early, though. He'd start at war with the greenskins beside him, and you could go slap him while he was injured from taking on one of their settlements. Then it was just about going and taking his provinces before he could properly recover.

Don't know if that still stands in WH3, but the fact you say he's getting overwhelmed by rats again makes me think it's likely the same situation.

Yeah, they didn't change his Startpos thankfully...

Good points. As I said, I actually breathed a sigh of relief when the Chaos Dwarf army headed back North ha! The Skaven were becoming a logistical nightmare.

Thanks

[SomeGuy1]

Originally posted by gachi is manly:

Is he still in the same spot as in Warhammer 2? I remember the deathmaster was a big issue for him early on in WH2's combined campaign. Playing on legendary difficulty, you pretty much had to go wipe him out ASAP or he'd just bury you in cheap armies.

There was a pretty tried and true method to beating him early, though. He'd start at war with the greenskins beside him, and you could go slap him while he was injured from taking on one of their settlements. Then it was just about going and taking his provinces before he could properly recover.

Don't know if that still stands in WH3, but the fact you say he's getting overwhelmed by rats again makes me think it's likely the same situation.

Imrik is technically still in the same spot, but the LLs around him have completely changed. the first Skaven he fights now (and you DO want to kill him first!) is Tretch Craventail now. On that note...

Originally posted by 8-The-General-8:

Yeah, right on what I was experiencing. I initially had one Ranger unit then the second attempt I had two. The other rank and file just get overwhelmed so badly. Imrik, being pretty tough or well used to be, seemed to get owned pretty quick to my surprise. There were so many models I wasn't sure if a bug or not.

Will try with 4 Ranger units this time. Thanks very much.

Tretch starts with four relevant units: Two Stormvermin (Sword and Shield), one Death Runners, and one Doomwheel.
Have Archers shoot the Death runners. Have Imrik and your Sun Dragon kill the armored units (EDIT: starting with the Doomwheel). Have Rangers and your Dragon Princes kill everything else.
EDIT: note that Tretch himself is his only starting Anti-Large unit.

EDIT: oh, also you start with a Fire mage. Burning Head obliterates unarmored chaff infantry. Like, deletes whole swathes of skavenslaves.

[8-The-General-8]

Now that's a plan ^^^ : )

I noticed the Stormvermin rushing me really hard and yes, after reloading the first battle (In Shock lol!) to try again I was corner CHeesing but wow... And that Doomwheel I tried to use the Sun Dragon to focus on that with breath attacks but seemed it was best to keep it airborne and not even land unless I got behind the mass of them.

Going to try again with both your suggestions and if I do the first dragon encounter again pay attention this time to any skills I select. Probably missile bonuses or Melee instead due to the start situation instead of the standard Route marcher for example as a first choice.

Yeah, Burning head instead of upping fireball. Definitely. Thanks again.

[SomeGuy1]

I forgot that Tretch starts with an Assassin Hero. Imrik or the Dragon princes kill that before he ganks Mikaela.
Just make sure to keep your dragon away from Tretch himself.

The Stormvermin are actually low priority to take down. Again, their virtue is "taking a long time to die" (they can just actually hit back a bit against things that can't get through their armor, unlike skavenslaves or clanrats). They won't be what kills you.

[8-The-General-8]

Originally posted by SomeGuy1:

I forgot that Tretch starts with an Assassin Hero. Imrik or the Dragon princes kill that before he ganks Mikaela.
Just make sure to keep your dragon away from Tretch himself.

Ahah! That'd explain the hero characters not lasting long enough. Noted and on the hitlist. lol!

Ty

[SomeGuy1]

Originally posted by 8-The-General-8:

Originally posted by SomeGuy1:

I forgot that Tretch starts with an Assassin Hero. Imrik or the Dragon princes kill that before he ganks Mikaela.
Just make sure to keep your dragon away from Tretch himself.

Ahah! That'd explain the hero characters not lasting long enough. Noted and on the hitlist. lol!

Ty

note that I edited in more things to the previous post after you quoted it

[8-The-General-8]

Yeah, Stormvermin are hard to kill and can put up a fight. One unit I discovered had halberds so that explained the Dragon Princes not offing them fast enough.

I really need to get more familiar with Skaven, fun yet frustrating faction heh...

[SomeGuy1]

Originally posted by 8-The-General-8:

Yeah, Stormvermin are hard to kill and can put up a fight. One unit I discovered had halberds so that explained the Dragon Princes not offing them fast enough.

I really need to get more familiar with Skaven, fun yet frustrating faction heh...

he shouldn't start with a halberd unit... but if he does then yes you keep your large guys away from them and use your Rangers instead. They rely on that anti-large bonus to hit anything, their Matk is honestly pathetic against infantry.

[8-The-General-8]

Originally posted by SomeGuy1:

Originally posted by 8-The-General-8:

Yeah, Stormvermin are hard to kill and can put up a fight. One unit I discovered had halberds so that explained the Dragon Princes not offing them fast enough.

I really need to get more familiar with Skaven, fun yet frustrating faction heh...

he shouldn't start with a halberd unit... but if he does then yes you keep your large guys away from them and use your Rangers instead. They rely on that anti-large bonus to hit anything, their Matk is honestly pathetic against infantry.

Oh for sure. I'll take a few screenshots this time. and maybe add them here. The Skaven army seems pretty dynamic for an early start to say the least. I can kind of sense a change in the AI's priorities in the locality as well, compared to the past.

The Dragon Battle was really great. I enjoyed it but the SKaven just got frustrating and sapped the resilience of Imrik and his army. Will try all the suggestions and see how I go., though confident in tackling the problem now so thanks for the refresher and noting what exactly I am up against. I just want to get to a point I can turtle a bit with the campaign as really, I just need that particular Skaven settlement gone and take the province, then focus on diplomacy and then the Chaos Dwarfs to the north. Best to strike from a solid foundation, especially considering the variety of the locals now.

[SomeGuy1]

Originally posted by 8-The-General-8:

Originally posted by SomeGuy1:

he shouldn't start with a halberd unit... but if he does then yes you keep your large guys away from them and use your Rangers instead. They rely on that anti-large bonus to hit anything, their Matk is honestly pathetic against infantry.

Oh for sure. I'll take a few screenshots this time. and maybe add them here. The Skaven army seems pretty dynamic for an early start to say the least. I can kind of sense a change in the AI's priorities in the locality as well, compared to the past.

The Dragon Battle was really great. I enjoyed it but the SKaven just got frustrating and sapped the resilience of Imrik and his army. Will try all the suggestions and see how I go., though confident in tackling the problem now so thanks for the refresher and noting what exactly I am up against. I just want to get to a point I can turtle a bit with the campaign as really, I just need that particular Skaven settlement gone and take the province, then focus on diplomacy and then the Chaos Dwarfs to the north. Best to strike from a solid foundation, especially considering the variety of the locals now.

uh... so if you think turtling is going to well as Imrik I have bad news for you: you are in an ocean of hostile LLs even deeper than the one in WH2 and you WILL get swarmed if you don't have a very strong position.
Well, we'll see how the war decs go in patch 4.0 but... Tretch, the Chorf guy, Ghorst, Ku'gath, Azhag, Greasus, Skarsnik, and Grimgor are all within spitting distance of you, and they all hate you. And your only friendly factions are on the other side of them.
And behind them are Queek and Kholek and another Chorf guy and Archaeon. Imrik is nearly constant fighting. If you want to turtle, you should confed caledor and move entirely to Ulthuan.

[8-The-General-8]

Originally posted by SomeGuy1:

Originally posted by 8-The-General-8:

Oh for sure. I'll take a few screenshots this time. and maybe add them here. The Skaven army seems pretty dynamic for an early start to say the least. I can kind of sense a change in the AI's priorities in the locality as well, compared to the past.

The Dragon Battle was really great. I enjoyed it but the SKaven just got frustrating and sapped the resilience of Imrik and his army. Will try all the suggestions and see how I go., though confident in tackling the problem now so thanks for the refresher and noting what exactly I am up against. I just want to get to a point I can turtle a bit with the campaign as really, I just need that particular Skaven settlement gone and take the province, then focus on diplomacy and then the Chaos Dwarfs to the north. Best to strike from a solid foundation, especially considering the variety of the locals now.

uh... so if you think turtling is going to well as Imrik I have bad news for you: you are in an ocean of hostile LLs even deeper than the one in WH2 and you WILL get swarmed if you don't have a very strong position.
Well, we'll see how the war decs go in patch 4.0 but... Tretch, the Chorf guy, Ghorst, Ku'gath, Azhag, Greasus, Skarsnik, and Grimgor are all within spitting distance of you, and they all hate you. And your only friendly factions are on the other side of them.
And behind them are Queek and Kholek and another Chorf guy and Archaeon. Imrik is nearly constant fighting. If you want to turtle, you should confed caledor and move entirely to Ulthuan.

Wow yeah, good points lol!

I kind of have to turtle and not rush 'em, due to how I need to play at present as I am using two laptops and just going to cruise along with it, but my main aim straight after defeating the local Skaven is to get Caledor for sure.

Should be interesting. I'm pretty good at wars of attrition in games, part of my style. Seems SKaven are the best fit in undermining that to the point of weakness. I reckon my main worry will be the Chorfs though. Oh, and Queek, ho hum. ha.

Edit:
Extra cool! Seems CA have had another update or two whilst I was busy. Could be a real treat playing today. Thanks CA.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1142710/eventcomments/3817418793962512951?snr=1_2108_9__2107

[SomeGuy1]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3035357360

also, this ruined settlement is actual ruins and NOT secretly a Skaven city. Colonize it after you kill Tretch (you gotta move fast until then), the landmark is quite nice (4 Influence per turn) and the settlement itself is under no threat. The terrain reaching it from the west is controlled by a faction that has no diplomatic interactions with anybody (they garrison Nagashizzar and do nothing else) and nobody ever goes through their territory (movement through there is slowed to a crawl).

Also, kill Tretch. Don't just "take the settlement to complete the province." Take ALL his settlements. Wipe him out. Really.