How would you fix dwarf slayers?

[Googley Eye'd Bastard]

Been reading the Gotrek and Felix novels and enjoying the heck out of them and its renewed my wish for Dwarf slayers to be a good useful unit. In my mind they should be shock troops, quick ones who can charge into say cities for sieges and start hounding the enemy units while missiles pelt them.

I can't think of anything to make that easier then giving them more staying power in melee I suppose but I wanna hear what you guys would think of?

[Lampros]

25 percent Physical Resistance - just like them naked Savage Orcs.

[ℬℓα⊂₭ ℙℜ¡ℵ₠]

An enrage type thing where they gain more dps the faster they die. So for every unit that dies the others become enraged and fight harder until the last few are pure killing machines. To balance they also lose some defence stats against normal sied units.

[jonoliveira12]

Nothing to fix, they are just unnecessary.

[Goldtooth™]

Originally posted by ℬℓα⊂₭ ℙℜ¡ℵ₠:

An enrage type thing where they gain more dps the faster they die. So for every unit that dies the others become enraged and fight harder until the last few are pure killing machines. To balance they also lose some defence stats against normal sied units.

What a useless "buff".. The less entities in a melee unit decides how well it performs. This is more the case in less armoured units like Slayers.

What they need is a damage ramp up over time, similar to Norscan berserkers and a huge increase of mass so they can't fall down. Dwarfs should be difficult to knock over in general because they are heavy and closer to the ground.

[IonizedMercury]

These guys are suicidal and want to fall in combat hence why they forgo all armor protection.

Making them tankier completely misses the point of the unit.

Also, don't take Gotrek as the "standard" of what a Dwarf Slayer should be, he's the main hero in a series of novels and so of course has extra-thick plot shielding.

[Ubaldios]

They're okay you can defo fit a couple of units in the army at any difficulty. Use them to kill summons and guard the back line in box set ups. Not "meta" maybe but who cares, you can totally make them work

[Lunos]

They need fixing? They seem fine for what they are. They get great value if you put them against what they are supposed to be fighting, large monsters and units and extra value for fast flanking and chasing. They probably just feel less useful because of how absurdly overpowered ranged is against large targets.

[Googley Eye'd Bastard]

Originally posted by IonizedMercury:

These guys are suicidal and want to fall in combat hence why they forgo all armor protection.

Making them tankier completely misses the point of the unit.

Also, don't take Gotrek as the "standard" of what a Dwarf Slayer should be, he's the main hero in a series of novels and so of course has extra-thick plot shielding.

I know gotrek is extremely powerful and that most slayers die at the beginning level of troll slayer but by making them tankier I meant things like ward save or physical resistance, just because their goal is death that doesn't mean they can just willingly die.

They are honor and oath bound to seek a glorious and HONORABLE death this means they are supposed to fight with every ounce of their being to ATTEMPT to survive, only falling in battle fighting at their hardest will they truly fulfill their oath and any time they willingly put themselves at higher risk they must have a good reason for doing so.

I remember reading something once where a slayer was fighting In line with other regular dwarfs in a skaven invasion and didn't recklessly throw himself into the mass of skaven where he would inevitably be mobbed, but when he saw a warrior get separated and surrounded by skaven he found the perfect chance and charged his way into the fray, threw the warrior back among the throng and shouted "I go to meet my doom!".

This to me is the epitome of a slayer, they are the dregs of dwarven society yes but at the same time they are supposed to be useful to the dwarven people and not just suicidal.

[Andrewbh2003]

giant slayers can delete even skarbrand from the game

they are fine there a staple of the dawi roster as the only reliable way to deal with mass besides guns

[chubbyninja89 (TNB)]

Originally posted by ℬℓα⊂₭ ℙℜ¡ℵ₠:

An enrage type thing where they gain more dps the faster they die. So for every unit that dies the others become enraged and fight harder until the last few are pure killing machines. To balance they also lose some defence stats against normal sied units.

I personally think that they should get an ability similar to the Hellblades ability, where the slayers could get a nice big buff to their damage, MA, charge bonus, and even speed if they get so many kills.

That and like Lampros said, giving them a 25% Physical Resistance would help them be a lot more useful.

Though I think that they could probably use another variation that's anti infantry and then they'd be complete.

[Jukelo]

Has it actually been established that they need fixing?
They're an automatic pick in MP, where they provide not just good anti-large, but crucially mobility for the dwarves. That's also how I've used them in SP, to intercept units I can't afford to retask my gunners to.

[Aleera]

Why? What is wrong with slayers as they are now?

They are thematically done right and even in single player are good unit's.

[IonizedMercury]

Originally posted by Googley Eye'd Bastard:

Originally posted by IonizedMercury:

These guys are suicidal and want to fall in combat hence why they forgo all armor protection.

Making them tankier completely misses the point of the unit.

Also, don't take Gotrek as the "standard" of what a Dwarf Slayer should be, he's the main hero in a series of novels and so of course has extra-thick plot shielding.

I know gotrek is extremely powerful and that most slayers die at the beginning level of troll slayer but by making them tankier I meant things like ward save or physical resistance, just because their goal is death that doesn't mean they can just willingly die.

They are honor and oath bound to seek a glorious and HONORABLE death this means they are supposed to fight with every ounce of their being to ATTEMPT to survive, only falling in battle fighting at their hardest will they truly fulfill their oath and any time they willingly put themselves at higher risk they must have a good reason for doing so.

I remember reading something once where a slayer was fighting In line with other regular dwarfs in a skaven invasion and didn't recklessly throw himself into the mass of skaven where he would inevitably be mobbed, but when he saw a warrior get separated and surrounded by skaven he found the perfect chance and charged his way into the fray, threw the warrior back among the throng and shouted "I go to meet my doom!".

This to me is the epitome of a slayer, they are the dregs of dwarven society yes but at the same time they are supposed to be useful to the dwarven people and not just suicidal.

That's meaningless fluff. They shamed themselves in some way, they want to die but also want to do so in a way that they're doing a service to Dwarf society.

Also, you seem to imply that any Dwarf but Slayers approaches fighting in a half-hearted or unprofessional manner which is of course utter bull. Dwarfs are fighting for their lives against several genocidal enemies, they can't afford to be anything but on the ball.

[Captain T1]

Originally posted by Rianne:

Why? What is wrong with slayers as they are now?

They are thematically done right and even in single player are good unit's.

Doesn't abide by OP's headcanon therefore needs changing.

[Googley Eye'd Bastard]

Originally posted by Rianne:

Why? What is wrong with slayers as they are now?

They are thematically done right and even in single player are good unit's.

Originally posted by Captain T1:

Originally posted by Rianne:

Why? What is wrong with slayers as they are now?
They are thematically done right and even in single player are good unit's.

Doesn't abide by OP's headcanon therefore needs changing.

Every time I play Ungrim ironfist campaign or read how people say a dwarf army is supposed to be designed in single play everyone says "oh why even bother using slayers their ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ just get more cannons/organ guns/quarrelers" I'm just saying that for a long time in single player they are considered a d tier unit by the community.

Originally posted by IonizedMercury:

Originally posted by Googley Eye'd Bastard:

I know gotrek is extremely powerful and that most slayers die at the beginning level of troll slayer but by making them tankier I meant things like ward save or physical resistance, just because their goal is death that doesn't mean they can just willingly die.

They are honor and oath bound to seek a glorious and HONORABLE death this means they are supposed to fight with every ounce of their being to ATTEMPT to survive, only falling in battle fighting at their hardest will they truly fulfill their oath and any time they willingly put themselves at higher risk they must have a good reason for doing so.

I remember reading something once where a slayer was fighting In line with other regular dwarfs in a skaven invasion and didn't recklessly throw himself into the mass of skaven where he would inevitably be mobbed, but when he saw a warrior get separated and surrounded by skaven he found the perfect chance and charged his way into the fray, threw the warrior back among the throng and shouted "I go to meet my doom!".

This to me is the epitome of a slayer, they are the dregs of dwarven society yes but at the same time they are supposed to be useful to the dwarven people and not just suicidal.

That's meaningless fluff. They shamed themselves in some way, they want to die but also want to do so in a way that they're doing a service to Dwarf society.

Also, you seem to imply that any Dwarf but Slayers approaches fighting in a half-hearted or unprofessional manner which is of course utter bull. Dwarfs are fighting for their lives against several genocidal enemies, they can't afford to be anything but on the ball.

How is something meaningless fluff if its written for the franchise in one of the books? Also I don't get what your saying otherwise what I mean is that slayers charge into battle crazed and with no armor yes but they are still skilled warriors who should be able to parry blows more often then they seem to when they melt against a unit of enemy infantry,

Originally posted by chubbyninja89 (TNB):

Originally posted by ℬℓα⊂₭ ℙℜ¡ℵ₠:

An enrage type thing where they gain more dps the faster they die. So for every unit that dies the others become enraged and fight harder until the last few are pure killing machines. To balance they also lose some defence stats against normal sied units.

I personally think that they should get an ability similar to the Hellblades ability, where the slayers could get a nice big buff to their damage, MA, charge bonus, and even speed if they get so many kills.

That and like Lampros said, giving them a 25% Physical Resistance would help them be a lot more useful.

Though I think that they could probably use another variation that's anti infantry and then they'd be complete.

An anti infrantry slayer would be a doomseeker basically a slayer who uses twin axe heads connected to chains they spin wildly and are more focused on killing hordes of enemy infantry which yeah I agree would be awesome to have in game but at the same time that would probably be incredibly difficult to model and we need to be extremely spaced out as a unit, maybe as a hero instead?