Skill Point Reset!

[Darklordnj]

Finally! Skill point reset that isn’t a mod!

[parent child bowl]

Originally posted by Mollerz:

Originally posted by Rianne:

3) Exp gain at a certain point is far less precious then changing the skills. Setting the skills up to cater to your playstyle is the most important part of building a lord.

This was my exact thought reading their assertion exp was so precious. A properly skilled lord > exp gain for 3 rounds all day every day. It's not even close.

I agree. I'm exclusively playing multiplayer and therefor building my Lords for early game units. Now I can change their build in midgame to support my new unit setup better.

I also never hurts to have an additional Lord getting the XP in those three turns and you can easily switch them out when the reskilled Lord is back.

It can also be a good way to fast travel for your LL since you usually can't retire them from an army.

[sirkudjon]

They are learning. Now integrate a mod to recruit defeated legendary lords....

[Defmonkey]

The only point where it even mattered for a respec option in my view is if you confederated a legendary lord and AI specked into the less desirable traits. Any other lord i would stick in the bin and recruit a new one if i need to. Should be one time only upon confed. People can then decide if they want to use the function there and then or ignore it and proceed with what you get.

Re-specking lords throughout game is a bad design choice i think. At least the cooldown is there, just respec when you please before any battle would be terrible game design.

[Emilia Tempest]

Tested it in game and this is what I found:
You cannot reset skills UNLESS the lord has NO ARMY (not like there's a mechanic that makes you replace a lord when he died.. oh wait there is)

The 3 turn wound time COMPLETELY ignores wound time modifiers, despite morghur always coming back 1 turn later, he suffers 3 turns regardless (amazing)


I thought this would be at least useful for conferderations, but no, you NEED to nuke the army to change the skill points of those armies (unless they are near a settlement and you can recruit a lord to change out the army)

I was hyped for it, I hoped it would be good, but they somehow found two ways to just completely screw it up. Someone has to be doing this on purpose right? This cant just be accidental..

[Cenwalh]

Originally posted by Emilia Tempest:

Tested it in game and this is what I found:
You cannot reset skills UNLESS the lord has NO ARMY (not like there's a mechanic that makes you replace a lord when he died.. oh wait there is)

The 3 turn wound time COMPLETELY ignores wound time modifiers, despite morghur always coming back 1 turn later, he suffers 3 turns regardless (amazing)


I thought this would be at least useful for conferderations, but no, you NEED to nuke the army to change the skill points of those armies (unless they are near a settlement and you can recruit a lord to change out the army)

I was hyped for it, I hoped it would be good, but they somehow found two ways to just completely screw it up. Someone has to be doing this on purpose right? This cant just be accidental..

Wow that's garbage implementation of a needed feature. Thanks for sharing, I haven't had time to test it myself yet, but wow... I didn't imagine it would be THIS bad.

I rest my case - the mod is still 934342 times better.

[Defmonkey]

Originally posted by Emilia Tempest:

Tested it in game and this is what I found:
You cannot reset skills UNLESS the lord has NO ARMY (not like there's a mechanic that makes you replace a lord when he died.. oh wait there is)

The 3 turn wound time COMPLETELY ignores wound time modifiers, despite morghur always coming back 1 turn later, he suffers 3 turns regardless (amazing)


I thought this would be at least useful for conferderations, but no, you NEED to nuke the army to change the skill points of those armies (unless they are near a settlement and you can recruit a lord to change out the army)

I was hyped for it, I hoped it would be good, but they somehow found two ways to just completely screw it up. Someone has to be doing this on purpose right? This cant just be accidental..

Right, but cant you just replace lord in the army when in your territory? You recall / recruit the swapped out lord you want after and change what you need.

To have you resetting skill points anywhere you want ant any time is bad. Surely you must see the negative aspects of this?

[Triple G]

No - it just doesn´t work straight forward. Instead of just doing the respecc and replacing the lord being wounded - You need to recruit a lord, give him all units, which is nice if the lord in question has a loyalty mechanic and will most likely revolt - and then respecc him.

Because that´s the easiest way CA could think of. As they think as players of the game, as they play it regularly, so they would never add some hard to use mechanic which takes away all the fun, or wouldn´t be practicable at all.

So it boils down if the mod still works or not. The best solution would be if the mod would overwrite the vanilla option for the same thing. Yes, no wound time, only pay 1k bucks - but only have one shot. One opportunity. Seize everything You wanted in one moment...

[Cenwalh]

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

To have you resetting skill points anywhere you want ant any time is bad. Surely you must see the negative aspects of this?

For the n-th time, yes, resetting skills should not be free, I think there should be a cost.

But the cost of having to swap out a lord and have them be wounded for 3 turns? Nah, it ain't worth it AT ALL.

Especially in the early/mid-game when you most likely cannot afford to hire another lord, nor you can afford to lose XP gain for 3 turns for your main lord.
Plus, remember that lords that are wounded, not killed, will still incur a supply line penalty to your faction. Soo, yeah, no thank you, I'll just level them up properly from the start and not have to respec ever.

Additionally, isn't the supply lines bug still in the game? Where you'd hire the lord again and incur yet an additional +4% upkeep cost? I honestly don't remember if that is the case, but if it's still there, that means you will also pay an additional +4% army upkeep just to reset skills.

It simply is not worth it at all. Worthless feature.

[Emilia Tempest]

Originally posted by Emilia Tempest:

Tested it in game and this is what I found:
You cannot reset skills UNLESS the lord has NO ARMY (not like there's a mechanic that makes you replace a lord when he died.. oh wait there is)

The 3 turn wound time COMPLETELY ignores wound time modifiers, despite morghur always coming back 1 turn later, he suffers 3 turns regardless (amazing)

I want to at least correct one thing after more testing.

The "cant replace lord without wiping the army" ONLY affects lords that have horde buildings (so beastmen, black arcs, Vampire counts LL and semi-LL and everyone else that has those buildings)
It works WITHOUT nuking the army for any other lord (be it a legendary lord or regular dude)
I just happened to get the worst case because I wanted to test if you can reduce the wound time too... I apologize for that

So yay its still useful for conferderations

[Triple G]

Originally posted by Emilia Tempest:

I want to at least correct one thing after more testing.

The "cant replace lord without wiping the army" ONLY affects lords that have horde buildings (so beastmen, black arcs, Vampire counts LL and semi-LL and everyone else that has those buildings)
It works WITHOUT nuking the army for any other lord (be it a legendary lord or regular dude)
I just happened to get the worst case because I wanted to test if you can reduce the wound time too... I apologize for that

So yay its still useful for conferderations

Haha - so You need to replace the army for the lords with loyalty mechanics almost exclusively, but not for the others. ^^

Can´t be...

[Defmonkey]

Originally posted by Cenwalh:

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

To have you resetting skill points anywhere you want ant any time is bad. Surely you must see the negative aspects of this?

For the n-th time, yes, resetting skills should not be free, I think there should be a cost.

But the cost of having to swap out a lord and have them be wounded for 3 turns? Nah, it ain't worth it AT ALL.

Especially in the early/mid-game when you most likely cannot afford to hire another lord, nor you can afford to lose XP gain for 3 turns for your main lord.
Plus, remember that lords that are wounded, not killed, will still incur a supply line penalty to your faction. Soo, yeah, no thank you, I'll just level them up properly from the start and not have to respec ever.

Additionally, isn't the supply lines bug still in the game? Where you'd hire the lord again and incur yet an additional +4% upkeep cost? I honestly don't remember if that is the case, but if it's still there, that means you will also pay an additional +4% army upkeep just to reset skills.

It simply is not worth it at all. Worthless feature.

For Warhammer 3 the supply lines i thought that had been fixed. If not, then its not an item i've noticed affect economies in my games. But then again, i don't leave loads of generals sitting in my pool.

Reading the description of skill reset in the patch notes announcement, i don't think i like the approach with what the description says of re-specking generals to "switch up your playstyle on the fly". This takes away cause and effects in your games and not good in my view. I guess i don't have to use it so there's that i suppose.

Its a worthless feature that people shouldn't have access to at all. If they were going to have it, it should of been a one time choice on confed. At least with the one time respec mod it was limited.

[Cenwalh]

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

For Warhammer 3 the supply lines i thought that had been fixed. If not, then its not an item i've noticed affect economies in my games. But then again, i don't leave loads of generals sitting in my pool.

Reading the description of skill reset in the patch notes announcement, i don't think i like the approach with what the description says of re-specking generals to "switch up your playstyle on the fly". This takes away cause and effects in your games and not good in my view. I guess i don't have to use it so there's that i suppose.

Its a worthless feature that people shouldn't have access to at all. If they were going to have it, it should of been a one time choice on confed. At least with the one time respec mod it was limited.

Yeah I'm not sure either. The supply lines bug was present in Warhammer 3 but maybe it was fixed since, I don't know. Specifically I am referring to that bug where you re-hire a lord that was wounded and it adds another +4% to upkeep, even though it shouldn't.

Agreed on the rest about the respec. I think it's poorly implemented. Mod is better.

[Defmonkey]

Originally posted by Cenwalh:

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

For Warhammer 3 the supply lines i thought that had been fixed. If not, then its not an item i've noticed affect economies in my games. But then again, i don't leave loads of generals sitting in my pool.

Reading the description of skill reset in the patch notes announcement, i don't think i like the approach with what the description says of re-specking generals to "switch up your playstyle on the fly". This takes away cause and effects in your games and not good in my view. I guess i don't have to use it so there's that i suppose.

Its a worthless feature that people shouldn't have access to at all. If they were going to have it, it should of been a one time choice on confed. At least with the one time respec mod it was limited.

Yeah I'm not sure either. The supply lines bug was present in Warhammer 3 but maybe it was fixed since, I don't know. Specifically I am referring to that bug where you re-hire a lord that was wounded and it adds another +4% to upkeep, even though it shouldn't.

Agreed on the rest about the respec. I think it's poorly implemented. Mod is better.

Yes the bug you are referring to is a nasty one if you cant kill off the generals before level 20. Having immortal generals you would end up with the permanent upkeep modifier.

[Emilia Tempest]

Originally posted by Triple G:

Haha - so You need to replace the army for the lords with loyalty mechanics almost exclusively, but not for the others. ^^

Can´t be...

Well the lords that do have ship buildings dont have loyalty (legendary lord and the semi-legendary lords from the tech tree)



Also, just now got Drycha to beat up Vlad, and I can confirm that you cant do anything about the 3 turn wound timer!
So ANY item, skill, trait or whatever that should reduce the wound timer, wont work on that (at least thats what I assume from Vlad's trait not working, I will not search out every item, skill, trait and so on just to prove it, I'm not getting paid for this so I wont do it )

[Mollerz]

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

Re-specking lords throughout game is a bad design choice i think. At least the cooldown is there, just respec when you please before any battle would be terrible game design.

Then don't use it lol.

The irony here is that added this and it is actually a band aid for bad game design. IF their LLs/Ls specced intelligently in the first place then this wouldn't even be necessary at all.

It was just the easier fix for CA.