.

[Zebulon Ecthelion]

He needs a hammer to his anvil. This is the most important thing. CA, if you don't have damage-dealing "hammer" units in the works right now, you're screwing up. And ones that are relatively low tier. Nurgle shouldn't have to wait to tier 5 to start playing the game.

Nurgle's economy needs to be reworked. Firstly, it's very weird that Nurgle is a sack faction. It doesn't really feel thematic to Nurgle in a campaign that is otherwise thematic to a fault. Nurgle's armies armies should be cheaper and his economy stronger. It's weird that Nurgle basically has to doomstack because his economy is too weak and his supply lines are too high to support a bunch of armies when the armies of Nurgle are usually described as vast hordes.

His plagues should be buffed and he should be given more plague mechanics. It's weird that the God of Plagues generally makes plagues that are weaker than Skaven and Beastman plagues. Nurgle's plagues should be the strongest! Furthermore, Nurgle should be able to essentially expand through the spreading of plagues, either in the establishment of cults or in taking over cities. This is literally how Nurgle worship spreads. Most people don't seek out the worship of the god of disease and decay, they get very sick (typically from one of Nurgle's plagues) and in the depths of agony and despair as the disease ravages their body, they hear the voice of Nurgle offering to take away the pain if only they would devote their souls to him. With that lore context, it's a bit odd then that your plagues aren't used for growth, expansion or recruitment at all and infection points are just used to brew more plagues.

Nurgle's cults should be buffed. They might be the most useless in the game. And, like I said in my previous point, they should be spread through disease, not Nurgle corruption.

Also, wanted to throw out there that Nurgle only being able to increase mortal hero capacity through resource buildings is kind of weird. Is there a reason for this decision? Is Nurgle a firm believer in a hard day's work? Does he dream of a day when he and his children will set up their very own trade network?

[Zebulon Ecthelion]

Ooh-la-la, It's GAGA!! の投稿を引用：

I only say git gud to complete nuubs, several times you ignored good advise, and argued in ignorance lol. Ghorsty boi clearly graped you hard, so you went here, to cry, like a lil girl.

Nurgle suc only at 2 things rly - trash economy, and low missile resis. But trees help, where they can.

I have never had trouble with Ghorst. I just beat him in auto-resolve. The problem isn't that Ghorst can't be beaten. It's simply that attempting to take on Ghorst in a fair fight without cheese reveals the many problems with Nurgle's army. *I* don't have a problem with Ghorst, Nurgle is just nearly-unanimously regarded as one of the weakest factions right now, and Ghorst hammers this fact home right at the beginning.

[Zebulon Ecthelion]

Ashardalon の投稿を引用：

ranged is not even included in the concept of hammer and anvil
why do you endure being so wrong
meanwhile yes, nurgle has lategame chaos knights who you shouldnt use
and frogs, who arnt for rear charging but pinning down ranged because their charge doesnt compact, it scatters wich you dont want with an army based around doing aoe damage grind
the knockdown is amazing at keeping infantry busy tho
not that you would understand what that means

I'm using "hammer and anvil" in an unorthodox way, my apologies. I wasn't referring to cycle charging, I was referring to the division of units between "line holders" and "damage dealers."

[Ashardalon]

Naram-Sin の投稿を引用：

Ooh-la-la, It's GAGA!! の投稿を引用：

I only say git gud to complete nuubs, several times you ignored good advise, and argued in ignorance lol. Ghorsty boi clearly graped you hard, so you went here, to cry, like a lil girl.

Nurgle suc only at 2 things rly - trash economy, and low missile resis. But trees help, where they can.

I have never had trouble with Ghorst. I just beat him in auto-resolve. The problem isn't that Ghorst can't be beaten. It's simply that attempting to take on Ghorst in a fair fight without cheese reveals the many problems with Nurgle's army. *I* don't have a problem with Ghorst, Nurgle is just nearly-unanimously regarded as one of the weakest factions right now, and Ghorst hammers this fact home right at the beginning.

ghorst shows that if you are uniquely immune to nurgles effects nurgle is difficult but still strong
then once hes dead there is nobody else with his immunity

[Zebulon Ecthelion]

Ashardalon の投稿を引用：

Naram-Sin の投稿を引用：

I have never had trouble with Ghorst. I just beat him in auto-resolve. The problem isn't that Ghorst can't be beaten. It's simply that attempting to take on Ghorst in a fair fight without cheese reveals the many problems with Nurgle's army. *I* don't have a problem with Ghorst, Nurgle is just nearly-unanimously regarded as one of the weakest factions right now, and Ghorst hammers this fact home right at the beginning.

ghorst shows that if you are uniquely immune to nurgles effects nurgle is difficult but still strong
then once hes dead there is nobody else with his immunity

Nurgle still gets gooned on by any faction with a significant amount of ranged units, especially if you're using a large number of daemon units like you're intended to. Don't get too ahead of yourself. Nurgle can eventually get pretty strong in some situations, but so can every faction. Are late game Nurgle armies superior to late game high elf armies? Late game Skaven armies? Late game Warriors of Chaos armies? Not really.

[Ashardalon]

why would you get gooned by ranged
you have plenty of hp to endure while you tie them down
what ranged unit can survive a fury and a frog can keep 3 occupied for an hour without losing a single model

[DecayWolf]

Naram-Sin の投稿を引用：

DecayWolf の投稿を引用：

Right...

Nurgle is as much VC as Bretonnia or Kislev is Empire.

How exactly is Nurgle different from the Vampire Counts?

"They're a melee infantry faction with units with a weak attack who hold the line and swarm enemies while their really strong lords and heroes do most of the work and have a ton of staying power and great healing spells."

Yeah, I don't know how you could get that confused with the Vampire Counts. What's the difference? A couple of (bad) ranged options? Or maybe it's the fact that the Vampire Counts actually have a good selection of damage dealing units and aren't forced into that playstyle by necessity, while Nurgle is.

IDK, except from the whole playstyle, units stats and variance, yeah... Pretty much the same.

[Aleera]

Naram-Sin の投稿を引用：

I'm using "hammer and anvil" in an unorthodox way, my apologies. I wasn't referring to cycle charging, I was referring to the division of units between "line holders" and "damage dealers."

Hammer and anvil tactics is a line that holds. The anvil. Where the enemy crashes upon and is stuck. The metal. Where your fast high charge unit's come in from behind, to give a massive morale penalty, the hammer.

If you're speaking damage dealers, Nurgle has plenty. Chaos spawn are excellent. Forsaken buzzsaw through chaff unit's. Beasts of nurgle to amazing work. Chariots of Nurgle will mow down infantry with ease. Greater Unclean ones are the best greater demon for raw power.
Plaguebearers hit way over their budget. They hit roughly as hard as black orcs do, except they're better against low armor.
Then theres the Soul grinder of Nurgle. Hound unit's. Furies, rotflies.

Nurgle is not lacking in the damage deparment. Nurgle will do less damage on the approach, but in the end they will outtrade.

Naram-Sin の投稿を引用：

Nurgle still gets gooned on by any faction with a significant amount of ranged units, especially if you're using a large number of daemon units like you're intended to. Don't get too ahead of yourself. Nurgle can eventually get pretty strong in some situations, but so can every faction. Are late game Nurgle armies superior to late game high elf armies? Late game Skaven armies? Late game Warriors of Chaos armies? Not really.

How does VC handle ranged unit's? fliers to tie down archers. Hounds to run down an kill archer unit's from vanguard. Use the powerfull Nurgle magic to disrupt formations and most likely break enemy morale due to the spike in damage. Bombard enemy archers with soul grinders.

Have a distraction carnifex. Use the +20% physical resist plague and let the enemy focus on your exalted greater unclean one lord. Spec into missile resist + items. Laugh as you soak the meager damage and just heal it.

I apologize, but it comes over that your playstyle equates into massing strong unit's and right clicking the enemy.

[DecayWolf]

Rianne の投稿を引用：

Naram-Sin の投稿を引用：

I'm using "hammer and anvil" in an unorthodox way, my apologies. I wasn't referring to cycle charging, I was referring to the division of units between "line holders" and "damage dealers."

Hammer and anvil tactics is a line that holds. The anvil. Where the enemy crashes upon and is stuck. The metal. Where your fast high charge unit's come in from behind, to give a massive morale penalty, the hammer.

If you're speaking damage dealers, Nurgle has plenty. Chaos spawn are excellent. Forsaken buzzsaw through chaff unit's. Beasts of nurgle to amazing work. Chariots of Nurgle will mow down infantry with ease. Greater Unclean ones are the best greater demon for raw power.
Plaguebearers hit way over their budget. They hit roughly as hard as black orcs do, except they're better against low armor.
Then theres the Soul grinder of Nurgle. Hound unit's. Furies, rotflies.

Nurgle is not lacking in the damage deparment. Nurgle will do less damage on the approach, but in the end they will outtrade.

Shhh, that's a federal top secret.

[Zebulon Ecthelion]

Rianne の投稿を引用：

Naram-Sin の投稿を引用：

I'm using "hammer and anvil" in an unorthodox way, my apologies. I wasn't referring to cycle charging, I was referring to the division of units between "line holders" and "damage dealers."

Hammer and anvil tactics is a line that holds. The anvil. Where the enemy crashes upon and is stuck. The metal. Where your fast high charge unit's come in from behind, to give a massive morale penalty, the hammer.

If you're speaking damage dealers, Nurgle has plenty. Chaos spawn are excellent. Forsaken buzzsaw through chaff unit's. Beasts of nurgle to amazing work. Chariots of Nurgle will mow down infantry with ease. Greater Unclean ones are the best greater demon for raw power.
Plaguebearers hit way over their budget. They hit roughly as hard as black orcs do, except they're better against low armor.
Then theres the Soul grinder of Nurgle. Hound unit's. Furies, rotflies.

Nurgle is not lacking in the damage deparment. Nurgle will do less damage on the approach, but in the end they will outtrade.

Naram-Sin の投稿を引用：

Nurgle still gets gooned on by any faction with a significant amount of ranged units, especially if you're using a large number of daemon units like you're intended to. Don't get too ahead of yourself. Nurgle can eventually get pretty strong in some situations, but so can every faction. Are late game Nurgle armies superior to late game high elf armies? Late game Skaven armies? Late game Warriors of Chaos armies? Not really.

How does VC handle ranged unit's? fliers to tie down archers. Hounds to run down an kill archer unit's from vanguard. Use the powerfull Nurgle magic to disrupt formations and most likely break enemy morale due to the spike in damage. Bombard enemy archers with soul grinders.

Have a distraction carnifex. Use the +20% physical resist plague and let the enemy focus on your exalted greater unclean one lord. Spec into missile resist + items. Laugh as you soak the meager damage and just heal it.

I apologize, but it comes over that your playstyle equates into massing strong unit's and right clicking the enemy.

None of that is actually true. Nurgle's army might outdamage the enemy 10 years later when they're finally done fighting with them. But if you actually need to bring down a unit fast? You're SOL.

Which brings us back to Ghorst. There's two units you need to get rid of or your whole "grinding mob" falls to pieces. Two units that you actually have no actual tools to kill. This is how Ghorst highlights the fundamental weakness with Nurgle right out of the gate.

When I say "damage dealers" I don't mean units that will provide damage two years later when they get around to it. I mean units or methods to deal fast damage. Lord mortis engine effect serves this function alright, but that requires that you get a lord high enough level to evolve, and then go straight down the combat skill line, which is a decent chunk into the game before that happens.

[Zebulon Ecthelion]

Ashardalon の投稿を引用：

why would you get gooned by ranged
you have plenty of hp to endure while you tie them down
what ranged unit can survive a fury and a frog can keep 3 occupied for an hour without losing a single model

How many dogs are you bringing to these fights?

[Ashardalon]

wow so you really are just impatient
if they win later they still win
you just figured out what nurgle is

yes ghorst is nurgles counter, so fight him early before he can build up
get a hero
once past ghorst you won

you keep asking nurgle to be fast
atleast try to keep the joke subtle

[Ashardalon]

2 dogs early game
later none because frogs
furys inbetween or to fill blanks since quick and cheap

[Aleera]

Naram-Sin の投稿を引用：

None of that is actually true. Nurgle's army might outdamage the enemy 10 years later when they're finally done fighting with them. But if you actually need to bring down a unit fast? You're SOL.

Furies have insane dps against say archers. Hounds do it even better and faster. Then there's the lore of Nurgle. Or lore of death. Then there's the always powerful marauder horsmen with throwing axes.

Naram-Sin の投稿を引用：

Which brings us back to Ghorst. There's two units you need to get rid of or your whole "grinding mob" falls to pieces. Two units that you actually have no actual tools to kill. This is how Ghorst highlights the fundamental weakness with Nurgle right out of the gate.

Which 2 unit's are that? The mortis engines?. 2 options. Exalted heroes of Nurgle. Ghorst and the mortis engine stand no chance. Don't have the dlc? 2 Nurgle cultists get the job done. Mortis engine has still made it into the grind? Beast of Nurgle + Kugath. Have a lore of death caster spam spirit leech.

Naram-Sin の投稿を引用：

When I say "damage dealers" I don't mean units that will provide damage two years later when they get around to it. I mean units or methods to deal fast damage. Lord mortis engine effect serves this function alright, but that requires that you get a lord high enough level to evolve, and then go straight down the combat skill line, which is a decent chunk into the game before that happens.

You claim you want fast damage, yet you give a example of the weakest and slowest form of damage possible, a mortis engine.

More methods of fast damage?
I repeat "Chaos spawn are excellent. Forsaken buzzsaw through chaff unit's. Beasts of nurgle fo amazing work. Chariots of Nurgle will mow down infantry with ease."

Need a big target brougth down? Exalted heroes, beast of nurgle, Greater unclean ones, rancid visitations, spirit leech, marauder horsemen with throwing axes.

I apologize, but if you want fast hard hitting damage to quickly kill a target. Don't play Nurgle. Even on tabletop, Nurgle doesn't win by quickly killing. They outlast you. That's their entire gameplan. Don't enjoy it? Play another faction.

Naram-Sin の投稿を引用：

How many dogs are you bringing to these fights?

No matter what faction I play, if they have access to hound like unit's. I will have atleast 2 hounds per army. Sometimes 4. Hounds are so powerful a unit. (and fun to use!)

[Zebulon Ecthelion]

Ashardalon の投稿を引用：

wow so you really are just impatient
if they win later they still win
you just figured out what nurgle is

yes ghorst is nurgles counter, so fight him early before he can build up
get a hero
once past ghorst you won

you keep asking nurgle to be fast
atleast try to keep the joke subtle

Units aren't "damage dealers" because they can win 1v1 fights eventually and at the end of that fight they will have done the damage necessary to have killed the unit they were fighting. They're damage dealers if they're able to deal damage relatively quickly.

[Aleera]

Naram-Sin の投稿を引用：

Units aren't "damage dealers" because they can win 1v1 fights eventually and at the end of that fight they will have done the damage necessary to have killed the unit they were fighting. They're damage dealers if they're able to deal damage relatively quickly.

No, that's a rush unit. One designed to capitalize on it's charge bonus to quickly overwhelm. Norsca and Beastmen are these.

Damage dealers excel in dealing damage, but are in turn weaker in defense. For example, Chaos Spawn.