When you want to confederate a faction

[BanryuTV]

Should you make a defensive pact or military pact, or just military access?

[ElviraDemonQueen]

i not sure actualy i always do make a military pack with them and shower them with some gold for a while to make sure they really really like me and later down the road when they get there armys killed by forching them into a big war that next to them that easly can steam role them i just let the enemy distroy them slowly until i get a chance to convedirate but i always do protect there capital just in case if they deside to kill the lord faction you want

[cernodan]

Originally posted by ネプチューン:

i not sure actualy i always do make a military pack with them and shower them with some gold for a while to make sure they really really like me and later down the road when they get there armys killed by forching them into a big war that next to them that easly can steam role them i just let the enemy distroy them slowly until i get a chance to convedirate but i always do protect there capital just in case if they deside to kill the lord faction you want

Reading this gave me a brain aneurysm.

Originally posted by BanryuTV:

Should you make a defensive pact or military pact, or just military access?

Never make military pact with factions you want to confederate. I don't even make defensive pacts. Just non-aggression, trade and military access is enough.
Easiest way to confederate is to check each turn, if there's a change in power ranking. Usually, if an AI army is destroyed, that faction's ranking drops and the difference in ranks helps in getting that confederation.
Basically, it all amounts to diplomacy bonuses.

[identity]

Never ally them. In many cases, it makes it much harder to confederate. Considering you want that option to begin with, you should let them go about their merry business and doom themselves rather than giving them hope that you'll come rescue them. Soon as they lose their army, they'll be ready to join you usually.

[KoboldUtopian]

Has anyone ever confirmed that alliances make it harder to confederate? I know we have been saying that for years but I've never seen proof of it.

[Elitewrecker PT]

Some say it makes it easier now.

[GeoG85]

Confederation is a pain in the butt without mods.

The more money you pay them to boost reputation, the more armies they build. The more fights they get into. The more fights they get into, the higher level they get, the more points they put into things that you would probably be against - 20 points into blue, red line? Picking economy traits Vs. damage traits which you can't revert. (Tyrion's 20% Wpn Strength Vs. Tyrion's 5% trade boost)

Also, if you're into farming traits, the longer they level, the more crap traits they pick up. Ya, +10 leadership when fighting Tomb Kings. Just what I needed.

These days, I'm so lazy, I just use C Trait Manager Mod to give Lords with +10 reputation, then dismiss them. And Easier Confederation Mod so once they hit 150+ reputation, if you have the strength level, instant confederation.

Hard to have a lvl7 Tyrion Confederate with Mods, and go back to Vanilla, and have him Confederate at lvl25.

Oh, and let's not forget the other good stuff. Sometimes in the game, you reach a certain turn, some people just stop offering confederation. Hit Turn 50? No more Confederations for you!

Weird algorytyhyms.

Lately, I try to see how fast I can get a Confederation going, with Save Friendly Mods. Lizardman can be rough because that's 7 Legendary Lord's you have to confederate.

[Tokogawa [GER]]

Never grant Defensive or Military Pacts to Fractions you want to confederate. They are more open to fuse with you when they feel that their Existence is threatened unless they do it. So having strong military Aid (the Player) actually pushs them away from doing it.
Also giving them Gold sounds counterproductive as that strenghtens them.
Since positive Relation is important also I usually just let them pay me for declaring war against their Enemies but then dont activly defent them from the attacks (again they only confederate when they feel they get wiped otherwise)

Honestly the fact Confederation is so stupidly hard to achieve is why I downloaded a Mod that lets you confederate with defeated Fractions upon their Death. You may want to look into it aswell
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2854819509

[ElviraDemonQueen]

Originally posted by cernodan:

Originally posted by ネプチューン:

i not sure actualy i always do make a military pack with them and shower them with some gold for a while to make sure they really really like me and later down the road when they get there armys killed by forching them into a big war that next to them that easly can steam role them i just let the enemy distroy them slowly until i get a chance to convedirate but i always do protect there capital just in case if they deside to kill the lord faction you want

Reading this gave me a brain aneurysm.

Originally posted by BanryuTV:

Should you make a defensive pact or military pact, or just military access?

Never make military pact with factions you want to confederate. I don't even make defensive pacts. Just non-aggression, trade and military access is enough.
Easiest way to confederate is to check each turn, if there's a change in power ranking. Usually, if an AI army is destroyed, that faction's ranking drops and the difference in ranks helps in getting that confederation.
Basically, it all amounts to diplomacy bonuses.

yeah sure everyone english is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ perfect right ?

like i say with other things i always do military alliances becouse i can then just bring the AI into a war they cant win and they lose everything with that it makes convediration way more easyer to my self

but hey you do you and call everyone ♥♥♥♥ that dus not 100% talk english

[Tokogawa [GER]]

This also reminds me that Bretons actually get Diplomacy bonuses when Confederation unlike all other Fractions so you can basicly confederate all of them in a single turn (providing you have the tech)

[BIG E.]

If its a Legendary lord faction, as early as you can because AI will definetly level that lord like an idiot.

[identity]

Originally posted by CoerciveUtopian:

Has anyone ever confirmed that alliances make it harder to confederate? I know we have been saying that for years but I've never seen proof of it.

Yes, and "proof" is hard to come by, what exactly is a screenshot or video going to tell you that trying it yourself won't do? It's been well known for awhile now based on the experiences of people trying to confederate lords. It's not like the games are new.
The situation has always been that the AI factors in its allies and their balance of power when deciding if its in an unwinnable situation, because the way the AI plays is that it expects you to help them once you're allied... because that's the point of being an ally, you work together as a team to accomplish goals... at least in a normal world. Since people who play don't really care about the AI and only care about themselves (since that's the point of a single player game), allying a faction tends to make it more difficult in that it skews their reasoning for wanting to confederate in the first place. It's not that it can't be done, and the bonus relations does help, but it doesn't help so much that it's noticeable and even recommended since you get the same results much easier without allying them. Fighting their enemies is more than enough to raise their relations and increase the chance of confederating by itself, since ultimately, all they care about is the end of the factions they don't like.

[sirkudjon]

NAP and trade agreemnet + militarry acces is what you can do. Never agree to military or defensive alliance. This will make confederation very very hard cause they will getting stronger instead of weaker. And you need them weak so they could join stronger - you

[KoboldUtopian]

Originally posted by id:

Originally posted by CoerciveUtopian:

Has anyone ever confirmed that alliances make it harder to confederate? I know we have been saying that for years but I've never seen proof of it.

Yes, and "proof" is hard to come by, what exactly is a screenshot or video going to tell you that trying it yourself won't do? It's been well known for awhile now based on the experiences of people trying to confederate lords. It's not like the games are new.
...

Because confirmation bias is a thing.

[identity]

Originally posted by CoerciveUtopian:

Because confirmation bias is a thing.

It's your choice to believe the experiences of hundreds of players who have discussed this problem over years, or not. If you want solid evidence for something very few people genuinely care enough about to put hours of research into just to fill your desire for absolute proof, do it yourself. No one else cares that much, because it's clearly obvious to anyone who has put in any significant effort into trying to figure this out in the first place, even if they decided not to document every step of the way for people like you.

[Ant Ra]

This is not really different from vassalizing. To be on the safe side, I make a peace treaty or a trade agreement, depending on what is free at the time, then I stop and wait out the time.

Each further agreement sets the timer back a bit and it takes longer. Sometimes I give a conquered city as a gift to speed things up a bit, and after the confedaracy/vassalage the gifts are automatically returned, or you can take everything back from the vassal.

Ideally, the Confederation target is being attacked by a common enemy, so that I can attack this enemy elsewhere. This speeds up the process enormously, as long as I take care not to enter the ground of my future confederated faction.