Warriors of Chaos seem to be really weak economically. Any Tips?

[Judge Cudge]

I do in fact build the Money buildings at my dark fortresses, and vassalize as many people as possible. But even with 5 dark fortresses and vassals, every WoC faction I've played seems to struggle to field so much as two reasonably strong armies.

Is there some trick to them I'm missing? As it stands they just seem terrible.

[Basarab Laiota]

Huhh? They are rich as hell... Dark Fortresses give a lot of income as does sacking.

[Roflberries]

Sack everything before occupying it. Sell everything that isn't a Dark Fortress to your vassals.

Just because you can upgrade units doesn't mean you have to. Marauders are serviceable well into the endgame as long as you make good use of magic. The upgrade to warriors is worth it. The upgrade to chosen is a luxury (the performance increase isn't as noticable as marauders to warriors), and should always come second if you feel you need more armies/ can't afford them.

Don't rely on income via Dark Fortresses. Make sure each army is paying off its upkeep from post battle loot and sacking towns, and not just sitting around aimlessly and you won't have any problems.

[Death Korps Commissar]

WoC play differently, raid, sack and raze will leave you swimming in money, they're not supposed to be a "building economy" powerhouse

[Fear2288]

I haven’t played WoC since W2, but IIRC the key to making money is via sacking, raiding, and post-battle loot.

They’re not supposed to function like the Empire, or High Elves, or any of the other nation-building factions - you need to constantly be attacking and destroying everything that you can.

The idea is to keep your coffers full of money to counter-act the high amount of debt you’re probably going to suffer each turn via upkeep costs.

[Vexillarius]

Use the gift of chaos that increases sacking income by like 50% i think. Pretty sure its a khorne one. Give settlements(that are not Dark Fortresses) to your vassals so they are actually making you money unless they have a useful resource. Dark Fortresses makes heaps of money but they also need to be built in a certain way to optimise it. Pay attention to what it actually says on each building before you build it.

Also the nurgle gift that give plus 75 growth in all provinces after you win a battle will let you develop your Dark fortresses much much faster and get cash flow going faster but you actually need the money to build all the stuff. Gonna need to sack big places to get gold injections to do that.

[dollars202]

Play Empire instead.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Fear2288:

I haven’t played WoC since W2, but IIRC the key to making money is via sacking, raiding, and post-battle loot.

They’re not supposed to function like the Empire, or High Elves, or any of the other nation-building factions - you need to constantly be attacking and destroying everything that you can.

The idea is to keep your coffers full of money to counter-act the high amount of debt you’re probably going to suffer each turn via upkeep costs.

They have had a rework, they function very differently now days. Note that constantly attacking and sacking is still a good idea (WoC buildings are expensive and the extra cash speeds things up considerably), but they do have proper income now from their black fortresses.

[IonizedMercury]

Are you playing WH1 or 2? Because money-making is absolutely no problem whatsoever in WH3.

[BIG E.]

With WoC you can't sit in your settlement and spam end turn.

If you are doing at least 1 battle per turn you will have hundreds of thousands of gold permanently.

If you are extremely passive and stand still a lot, you will have no gold.

[Judge Cudge]

Well I'm constantly on the war march towards new dark fortresses. But it's with my singular army and I'm fighting on average every other turn.

The game tells me how much I get from sacking, and I do it when it looks the best choice, but it's nowhere near 'hundreds of thousands'. The best it ever seems to be is around double loot and occupy money, if that.

I'd like to make use of gifts more often, but the immediately obvious soul income seems much lower than the soul drain of more than a few. So I use a few sparingly that I'm allowed to pick. This is early game mind you.

Another thing is I'm playing co-op, if I fight sack then fight occupy I'm spamming a forced action pause on 3 people constantly.

From what I've gathered it seems like just a bad co-op faction. You are always slapping an increasingly large bandaid on an increasingly large leak with your resources, and to do so you need to be a fight spamming gimmick abuser.

Playing a race that categorically MUST fight 4+ times a turn in the mid to late game to avoid going bankrupt is pretty much untenable with friends, nor does it seem more compelling than annoying to me when solo.

If the vassals gave any real amount of money, or even helped at doing anything other than acting as a buffer, maybe it'd be different. But from what's been suggested this seems like a faction that never at any circumstances gets "on its feet" and you just are bailing water out of a sinking boat with more and more buckets every turn.

A shame considering how cool all the WoC lords are.

[BIG E.]

It depends on difficulty aswell.

For example WoC will actually have better economy on L/VH because you will fight a lot bigger armies, a lot more. Bigger and more armies mean, bigger and more gold. AI builds up settlements a lot faster so, a lot more gold from razing.

Literally playing on higher campaign difficulty is better for WoC.

Since i only played them on L/VH that might be it. Maybe there is just not enough on the map.

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by Judge Cudge:

Well I'm constantly on the war march towards new dark fortresses. But it's with my singular army and I'm fighting on average every other turn.

The game tells me how much I get from sacking, and I do it when it looks the best choice, but it's nowhere near 'hundreds of thousands'. The best it ever seems to be is around double loot and occupy money, if that.

I'd like to make use of gifts more often, but the immediately obvious soul income seems much lower than the soul drain of more than a few. So I use a few sparingly that I'm allowed to pick. This is early game mind you.

Another thing is I'm playing co-op, if I fight sack then fight occupy I'm spamming a forced action pause on 3 people constantly.

From what I've gathered it seems like just a bad co-op faction. You are always slapping an increasingly large bandaid on an increasingly large leak with your resources, and to do so you need to be a fight spamming gimmick abuser.

Playing a race that categorically MUST fight 4+ times a turn in the mid to late game to avoid going bankrupt is pretty much untenable with friends, nor does it seem more compelling than annoying to me when solo.

If the vassals gave any real amount of money, or even helped at doing anything other than acting as a buffer, maybe it'd be different. But from what's been suggested this seems like a faction that never at any circumstances gets "on its feet" and you just are bailing water out of a sinking boat with more and more buckets every turn.

A shame considering how cool all the WoC lords are.

I wouldn't double sack/fight a settlement as it loses double times a level, so you'll pay for it.

[Beje]

Originally posted by Judge Cudge:

Playing a race that categorically MUST fight 4+ times a turn in the mid to late game to avoid going bankrupt is pretty much untenable with friends, nor does it seem more compelling than annoying to me when solo.

If the vassals gave any real amount of money, or even helped at doing anything other than acting as a buffer, maybe it'd be different. But from what's been suggested this seems like a faction that never at any circumstances gets "on its feet" and you just are bailing water out of a sinking boat with more and more buckets every turn.

A shame considering how cool all the WoC lords are.

I kind of disagree. Except for early game maybe. I've done 150+ turns with Kholek Suneater (very fun, gathering as many vassals as possible then taking only Kholek into fights), I've also done 60+ turns with Vilitch. I was fighting a lot, sure. But I wanted to. I vassalized half of the map, the other half hated me. I wasn't FORCED TO FIGHT OR I CRUMBLE, not at all. Each Dark Fortress can reach up to 4,5-5k income per turn end game once you have built everything. Just 1 Dark Fortress alone can pretty much sustain your main army, I think WoC can actually get to +6k upkeep cost per turn for an army since some of the units are quite expensive, but still let's speak in broad numbers. 2 Forts should be enough for 1 big nasty expensive army.

The challenge comes from the early game....because each of their building upgrades are EXPENSIVE. That's where the looting and sacking comes in, invest that money into your economy since it pays off heaps later on. Very important, don't forget to build the +X% income buildings, those are huge (like the Chaos Shrine, +30% income as a tier 2 building). Due to the very high numbers they get from the normal income building + the main settlement, +30% income is actually significantly higher. And most advanced military buildings have this extra income multiplier and they all stack.

I think you might be recruiting too high-tiered units or upgrading your units too fast and your economy isn't advanced enough yet to sustain it, which might be the reason why it feels like bleeding money.

[Païtiti]

WoC economy is probably the best in the entire game, especially early on. So what ever you do, stop doing it and do the opposite.

[Siodog]

Originally posted by Judge Cudge:

Well I'm constantly on the war march towards new dark fortresses. But it's with my singular army and I'm fighting on average every other turn.

The game tells me how much I get from sacking, and I do it when it looks the best choice, but it's nowhere near 'hundreds of thousands'. The best it ever seems to be is around double loot and occupy money, if that.

I'd like to make use of gifts more often, but the immediately obvious soul income seems much lower than the soul drain of more than a few. So I use a few sparingly that I'm allowed to pick. This is early game mind you.

Another thing is I'm playing co-op, if I fight sack then fight occupy I'm spamming a forced action pause on 3 people constantly.

From what I've gathered it seems like just a bad co-op faction. You are always slapping an increasingly large bandaid on an increasingly large leak with your resources, and to do so you need to be a fight spamming gimmick abuser.

Playing a race that categorically MUST fight 4+ times a turn in the mid to late game to avoid going bankrupt is pretty much untenable with friends, nor does it seem more compelling than annoying to me when solo.

If the vassals gave any real amount of money, or even helped at doing anything other than acting as a buffer, maybe it'd be different. But from what's been suggested this seems like a faction that never at any circumstances gets "on its feet" and you just are bailing water out of a sinking boat with more and more buckets every turn.

A shame considering how cool all the WoC lords are.

If you concern youself for stopping people playing in coop because you have to fight you shouldn't do coops in the first place. We always play on Legendary and the fact we MUST fight more than 5+ times in a single turn is something we know we have to deal with because of autoresolve cheats for the AI. If you don't want this mod it there is no other way around right now.

Our larger coops campaings we even had to fight more than 20 times in a turn back with realms of chaos campaigns and players either help each other or move to do other things while others are fighting. Total war is not a fast game and coops/mp are specially slow.