Why Vassal not useful?

[Foxsnow]

Hello, I'm currently playing as Viditch Curseling, and I'm encountering an issue with my economy not improving. In an attempt to strengthen my vassals, I made the mistake of granting them land without seeing significant results in their offensive actions against enemies.

I've tried setting various commands such as defend target and attack target, as well as instructing them to occupy targets, but unfortunately, my vassals aren't engaging with enemy forces as I hoped they would.

I'm seeking advice on how to address this issue effectively, aside from relying solely on allied armies. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[GamerHubert]

Vassals arent rly useful. Sometimes they start to spread when they got many settlements. U yourself get around 150 Gold/settlement owned by the vassal.

Normally all chaoswarriors doing the same. Take all black citadels and rest of the settlements u can gift to your vassal via diplomatic.

Even if u give them the command they dont do the things u want.

Chaoswarriors arent so economy giants(earlygame). Normally u got 1 crazy army at thats it.

[CrUsHeR]

Norsca vassals:

Their settlements only really generate money if they have a port. If they have a province with several of those, they make more money than factions like The Empire with regular provinces.

You can also boost their income and recruitment by building an Outpost in their best port city. The game won't notify you about vassals with a free outpost slot though, only independent allies.

So basically, you can sell all of Cathay to Yusak, their cities will barely make 40g which never pays back their investments from buying the city upgrades.

Also means, don't expect a Norsca vassal to ever have more than ~ 1 and a half armies.
Except Wulfrik and Throgg, they perform more like regular factions.



Skaven and Chaos Dwarfs make much better vassals for that. They'll have income from cities and thus also several armies. Though if you beat them down to the last settlement, and then take all their money by selling them settlements, it will take them forever to build up a notable force.

Best to not worry about them too much. Rather think about which vassals you want and which you don't.

Example, it never makes sense to extend one vassal's territory too much. Because the AI will eventually do completely useless stuff; like they have an army two screens from the target they should attack, but they move it 10 screens back to their capital. And instead they send an army from their capital for the attack, which never happens because the war is over before they arrive.

Some vassals are just really good at their job. Like if you have Grimgor with a couple of cities, you can declare war on everyone in the region, and he may actually defeat all of them because he no longer needs to defend against threats from Cathay or the Chaos Wastes.

[Foxsnow]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Norsca vassals:

Their settlements only really generate money if they have a port. If they have a province with several of those, they make more money than factions like The Empire with regular provinces.

You can also boost their income and recruitment by building an Outpost in their best port city. The game won't notify you about vassals with a free outpost slot though, only independent allies.

So basically, you can sell all of Cathay to Yusak, their cities will barely make 40g which never pays back their investments from buying the city upgrades.

Also means, don't expect a Norsca vassal to ever have more than ~ 1 and a half armies.
Except Wulfrik and Throgg, they perform more like regular factions.



Skaven and Chaos Dwarfs make much better vassals for that. They'll have income from cities and thus also several armies. Though if you beat them down to the last settlement, and then take all their money by selling them settlements, it will take them forever to build up a notable force.

Best to not worry about them too much. Rather think about which vassals you want and which you don't.

Example, it never makes sense to extend one vassal's territory too much. Because the AI will eventually do completely useless stuff; like they have an army two screens from the target they should attack, but they move it 10 screens back to their capital. And instead they send an army from their capital for the attack, which never happens because the war is over before they arrive.

Some vassals are just really good, like if you have Grimgor with a couple of cities, you can just declare war on everyone in the region, he may actually defeat all of them because he no longer needs to defend against threats from Cathay or the Chaos Wastes.

I control a powerful Cathayan woman with eight armies under her command. However, despite her capabilities, all she does is defend one land and fortress, neglecting any other actions.

I granted her control of a dark fortress, assuming it would enhance her capabilities. However, upon closer inspection, I couldn't find any special buildings within the fortress. Despite this, it seems she remains fixated solely on defending the fortress, without engaging in any other activities.

[Lunos]

Vassals aren't that great. I only use them to occupy land that has a harsh climate for me to settle in or areas I can't be bothered to care about. They are only useful as a buffer zone and for the meager tribute they offer you. Maybe once in a blue moon they will actually have an army near yours that will participate in a battle you fight but that's pretty much it.

[CrUsHeR]

Yeah that's another issue.

If you take "Order" factions as vassals, meaning those who have a strong aversion against your regular Chaos / Norsca / Skaven vassals, this leads to a diplomacy downward spiral.

Basically all your vassals end up hating you, so they no longer buy cities from you, don't want trade pacts etc.

May even go as far as having them refuse your call to war.

[Echo]

Like CrUsHeR says above, the type of vassal matters very much. Skaven are fantastic for expansion (so are Khorne vassals if you can get one) and have excellent settlement growth compared to other races, so they can get up and running with T5 settlements and multiple armies relatively fast. You do need to pump some money into them early on to make sure they have enough to get rolling, but after that they're self-sustaining.

Kislev is also a pretty decent vassal if they control one of their 3 main cities.

If you want to play with vassals, I do recommend using the Fudging vassals mod. It adds a few dilemmas that help you distribute land to and from your vassals (or between them if there are multiple owning settlements in the same province). Also, the Settlement Trading mod really helps relocate vassals to a non-adjacent province.

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by Lunos:

Vassals aren't that great. I only use them to occupy land that has a harsh climate for me to settle in or areas I can't be bothered to care about. They are only useful as a buffer zone and for the meager tribute they offer you. Maybe once in a blue moon they will actually have an army near yours that will participate in a battle you fight but that's pretty much it.

WoC have all climates in "green", though.

They just can't exploit anything financially except Dark Fortresses, and the minimal trade income from strategic resources.

[Lunos]

I wasn't referring to WoC specifically but just vassals in general. WoC is a bit different as you only need the dark fortresses and could care less about normal settlements.

[Father Ribs]

Vil is a CoC faction, so the only provinces you get any benefits from compared to passing it on to vassals are unholy fortresses and settlements with special items in it.

Vassals and also be a good buffer, can spread your corruption (for at least some factions), You can order vassals to "defend" your own settlements and armies (they're slow to start, but I've had games where vassals escort my army like a slow-arse waaugh).

[Lamp]

Vassals can be kinda useful if properly cultivated, but Norsca are generally pretty borked.

Wouldn't recommend seeking advice on here though, this is the domain of the trolls now. Not gonna find many right answers and the people who used to like helping with these things, (like how to use vassals effectively), generally won't bother explaining anymore.