Why can we still not put skaven weapon teams on walls?

[Xennox]

Mostly saying this since I was playing a cathay campaign and noticed that i could put the crane gunners on a wall, a literal cathayan warplock jezzail and yet we cannot put even those ones on walls. Is there a specific already said and explained reason as to why this never happened? It certainly would be fun especially for Ikit claw players to be able to defend the walls with our weapon teams.

[pauloandrade224]

i think its probably because it would break the game. plus theres 2 rats per unit so many thats also why that doesnt work i dunno.

like imagine a maxed out warplock ikit claw jezzail unit. they would get like 500 range minumum at maxed out optimal stats.

[pauloandrade224]

plus ratling guns in the walls would also control alt f4 anything that even dreams of going to said walls too.

ikit claw s faction is in world war 2 age while the rest are in medieval or fantasy medieval age.

hes the most fun faction because of this tho.

[ik vind geschiedenis leuk]

Originally posted by pauloandrade224:

plus ratling guns in the walls would also control alt f4 anything that even dreams of going to said walls too.

ikit claw s faction is in world war 2 age while the rest are in medieval or fantasy medieval age.

hes the most fun faction because of this tho.

not completely true, dwarfs are industrial with several world war 1, ww2 and modern weapons (flamethrowers, zeppelins, helicopters, machine guns), and chorfs are the same but with tanks instead of zeppelins and helicopters. empire is 18th century. tomb kings are ancient times. bretonnia and elves are medieval. cathay and kislev are all over the place, but I would figure 18th century as well, with zeppelins for cathay as well. norsca and woc and greenskins are primitives with monsters. daemons are just monsters. skaven once more are all over the place. lizardmen seem medieval as well. the pint is skaven aren't the only factions with good gunpowder

[Xennox]

Originally posted by pauloandrade224:

i think its probably because it would break the game. plus theres 2 rats per unit so many thats also why that doesnt work i dunno.

crane gunners are also a 2 people team weapons. which is why i said that we legit have a cathayan warplock jezzail that can go on walls. Also, dawi can have their flamethrowers on walls, skavens can not, also i think ai does not get the workshop upgrades but do get nukes. all for player fun. I do remember back in the day being hyped for skaven weapon teams on walls when we heard that the crane gunners could go on them, obviously I forgot about it as a whole until recently. but yeah, all the empire gunnery infantry can get on walls, so yeah, a fully upgraded nuln faction is somewhat equivalent to ikit claw, soooo that is a bit redundant in terms of powercreep.

[Xennox]

Originally posted by pauloandrade224:

like imagine a maxed out warplock ikit claw jezzail unit. they would get like 500 range minumum at maxed out optimal stats.

I just did the maths, optimal max range for jezzails with tech and workshop and ballistic instructor + wall is 418. a fully optimal cranne gunner reaches 385 if with miao ying range skill + tech + wall. 357.5 without miao ying range skill. hochland long rifles is 390 range on wall + lord with range trait + ballistic instructor and tech. warplock jezzails do win in range, sure, but these are still equivalent. also a warplock jezzail without the workshop range increase max range is 385 if you could place them on walls.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Balance reasons. As to why crane gunner doesn't suffer the same fate. Perhaps they weren't deemed damaging enough on their own (the jazzails become way more powerful when comboed with rattling guns).

[Xennox]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

Balance reasons. As to why crane gunner doesn't suffer the same fate. Perhaps they weren't deemed damaging enough on their own (the jazzails become way more powerful when comboed with rattling guns).

but... freaking celestial dragon guard legit out range and out dps when maxed out rattling gunners while being shielded... they gain a +3 flat armour piercing and a +4 flat basic damage increase per arrow for both of their shots and theres 80 units in it... they just don't have infinite ammo is all. currently my miao ying rank 7 celestial dragon crossbows have 97 dps per unit for 80 units with 219 range and 31 ammo (which would be more if i chose miao ying faction). they have a 7760 dps as a whole unit. i obviously don't have an endgame campaign ikit claw to fully compare the dps of a maxed out rattling gunner but yeah.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Xennox:

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

Balance reasons. As to why crane gunner doesn't suffer the same fate. Perhaps they weren't deemed damaging enough on their own (the jazzails become way more powerful when comboed with rattling guns).

but... freaking celestial dragon guard legit out range and out dps when maxed out rattling gunners while being shielded... they gain a +3 flat armour piercing and a +4 flat basic damage increase per arrow for both of their shots and theres 80 units in it... they just don't have infinite ammo is all. currently my miao ying rank 7 celestial dragon crossbows have 97 dps per unit for 80 units with 219 range and 31 ammo (which would be more if i chose miao ying faction). they have a 7760 dps as a whole unit. i obviously don't have an endgame campaign ikit claw to fully compare the dps of a maxed out rattling gunner but yeah.

The reason rattling gunners combo well with other ranges units isn't necessarily their damage (even if it's more then respectable and very suited to dealing with the things the jazzails will be bad against). It's also the slow effect the apply on whatever they damage.

[Xennox]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

The reason rattling gunners combo well with other ranges units isn't necessarily their damage (even if it's more then respectable and very suited to dealing with the things the jazzails will be bad against). It's also the slow effect the apply on whatever they damage.

but you don't need to slow down enemies at 145-176 range if you have a much better frontline and said frontline doesn't block line of sight for your ranged units... and also just oneshot volley a hero or lord.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Xennox:

but you don't need to slow down enemies at 145-176 range if you have a much better frontline and said frontline doesn't block line of sight for your ranged units... and also just oneshot volley a hero or lord.

But we are arguing about stuff being on a wall now aren't we? So a frontline wouldnt necessarily be part of the calculation.

[Xennox]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

Originally posted by Xennox:

but you don't need to slow down enemies at 145-176 range if you have a much better frontline and said frontline doesn't block line of sight for your ranged units... and also just oneshot volley a hero or lord.

But we are arguing about stuff being on a wall now aren't we? So a frontline wouldnt necessarily be part of the calculation.

you got me there, however they still do have more dps and honestly, slowing down enemies from getting to a wall doesn't do that much, there's ample time to put in melee units that were close due to harmony on the wall, go off the wall with ranged units and then shoot them past your own frontline, a perk that rattling gunners cannot do efficiently even were they to gain wall docking perk. so why would they be game breaking if they could when there are stronger already existing options? it would finally give ikit claw an actual wall use for his weapon teams albeit temporarily. they would clearly still have drawbacks compared to other factions so why insinuate that they would be op?

[Garatgh Deloi]

To be fair I don't necessarily think it would be OP, I just see the logical balance arguments they likely used when blocking them from mounting walls.

It's kinda funny regardless since the commonly agreed best defense strategy recommends setting up behind the walls anyway.

[madracc00n]

Reason is simple:Devs are lazy to implement it.Same reason u cant properly use Arty when defending in siege.

[Da_Higg]

I just assumed that CA didn't figure out how to code the animations for weapon teams climbing ladders until game thee. I suspect when the Skaven get their game three race update the Jezzails will gain the ability to climb ladders/go on walls.

Not sure about ratling guns since they are linked by that cable

[Xennox]

Originally posted by Da_Higg:

I just assumed that CA didn't figure out how to code the animations for weapon teams climbing ladders until game thee. I suspect when the Skaven get their game three race update the Jezzails will gain the ability to climb ladders/go on walls.

Not sure about ratling guns since they are linked by that cable

you know what, i never bothered to check if the crane gunners could actually use ladders until now and yeah, they do have a climbing animation. and by checking the rats, yeah, their big backpacks would make it hard to justify them actually being able to give them that animation, that and their guns are pretty big and there would need to keep the link between the rattling gunners and the warpfire throwers as well as put their items in their hands away. I just though the crane gunners could only get on walls from the inside, not use ladders. edit: funnily enough, only the warplock jezzails would have a pretty feasible climbing animation